India Pakistan conflict along IB and LoC (July 2021 onwards)

flanker99

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Yeah i piss on modi,shah,singhs many policy as much as the next guy but in this case there's not much we anyone can do.only solutions are we go big or go home
1.crush pakistan completely and obliterate the head
2.go full china on kashmir
Either way demographics in kashmir must change
 

Bharatiya

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Lol Modi has big fat low IQ... He is probably worse than many here on DFI. Indian policymaking doesn't rest on Modi. Remember he too started aman ki Asha tamasha with Paxtan... Within days we got Pathankot terror attack. Then ISI agents were invited lmfao.. I vividly remember Kapil Mishra ripping Modi apart in streets of Delhi after than fiasco.
That probably was the grand signal to Maulana that Foreign policy is not cut for him.
We got Doval & Jaishankar Type people doing their job for us. Lol at overrating Maulana.
Ever heard of Dunning-Krugger effect? All the Amateurs are full of confidence because they don't know what they don't know.

We, the people who have never worked in the national politics, are essentially amateurs. We know a lot of things that happen on the surface, but we don't know what goes behind the stage.

The common man is level 1. He believes what is shown and told.

The ones on DFI and the like are level 2. They analyze. Reason why someone is saying something. The interconnections. The hidden interests. The driving ideologies.

We can see a lot of things the common man can't.

Similarly, the ones above us can see a lot of things that we can't. We don't know what kind of deals are going on behind the scenes. The conditions. The cooperations. The alliances. Even in this hyper information age, a loooot of things are hidden.

Of course, no matter which level you are at, the final verdict is ground reality. The GDP. The Roads. The Income. The Cities.

Judge progress made by concrete things. Are the roads better than before? Are there more factories, more jobs, more profit? From my observation, yes there are. There is progress. Good progress.

The fact that people are taking no terrorist attack in major cities as granted. Or that they stopped bringing money outside and just use UPI. Or that we are actually having new trains and will have more. I can go on, but this is testament to changes at a fundamental level. And this only came after Modi govt.

Despite saying all this, I'm not painting Modi as flawless leader. He has his fair share of mistakes. He caked out in the face of farmer (read Khalistani) protests. No UCC yet. Economy didn't grow as fast as promised, even though some of the reasons lie in UPA era. Courts are still slow af. There is a lot to talk about here.

BUT.

Saying 'Modi is like any other leader until now, Modi has his own mistakes' would be stupid.

Modi's mistakes are by far very bearable and inflict far less damage to the nation and society.

The fact that you and majority of the country are viewing Modi as someone "responsible" for "fixing" this country is already a remarkable achievement.

When parliament was attacked during MMS, how many people viewed him as a problem solver? After Mumbai attacks, did people blame MMS?

To give an analogy, MMS is the student everyone gave up on. Modi is the one people of this country rooted for. He is THE one. He promised electricity, income and safety. If he failed spectacularly on all fronts, people would be disappointed in him. The discourse on him would die down.

But no. He succeeded in many things. But he didn't succeed in all. Especially in some things we'd really like. That's why some people are really frustrated with Modi. I'm not talking about Modi haters, but the ones who diss on him in this forum but still vote for him anyway. There are a lot of people like that, myself included.

Now, I just want to reply your post: line by line.

Lol Modi has big fat low IQ
PM to select the right people to make the right expert decisions and sign the papers. PM needs to be someone who can take the tough decisions.

If you appoint 200 IQ harvard pass outs, they'll sell this country to US because it's the "smartest" thing.

Super high IQ isn't needed for this job. But Patriotism is necessary.

AAP is sleeping with Khalistanis and Rahul being the brown sepoy, there is no other National Patriotic Party.

If you know a party that is as patriotic as BJP and more capable, tell me. I will convince everyone I know to vote for it. And I'm fairly confident everyone on this forum will do the same.

He is probably worse than many here on DFI.
Yeah, this is exactly the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Remember he too started aman ki Asha tamasha with Paxtan... Within days we got Pathankot terror attack. Then ISI agents were invited lmfao.. I vividly remember Kapil Mishra ripping Modi apart in streets of Delhi after than fiasco.
That probably was the grand signal to Maulana that Foreign policy is not cut for him.
We got Doval & Jaishankar Type people doing their job for us. Lol at overrating Maulana.
So, he f*cked up once with Pakistan. Then, he learnt his lesson. Now, there's no trade with Pakistan. It's in FATF grey list. We responded to the terror attacks not with "talks" but with retaliation for the first time.

Thing is, Modi has tried to smoothen up things with Pakistan. A possibility for peace and road to common prosperity. It's stupid af. Too optimistic and even delusional. But he gave it a try anyway. And he failed because Pakistan isn't willing. Then, he responded in kind. Now a days, GOI doesn't even take the name of Pakistan.

Same thing with China. He tried to make a good relationship with personal visits. Then Doklam and recently Galwan. Thus, Modi pushed the Atmanirbhar.

Jaishankar was in IFS for decades. Congress didn't spare him a glance. Modi put him in the position of power. No, I'm not talking down Jaishankar. He's the gem of our nation. The best FM we ever had. But if there was no Modi, this gem would have remained a hidden gem forever.

Credit must be given where it is due.

This is a democracy. We can of course complain. But we shouldn't blame others beyond a point. Because it's mostly the problem from within.

Do what you can and trust the system to do its job.

Jai Hind!
 

Waanar

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Lol Modi has big fat low IQ... He is probably worse than many here on DFI. Indian policymaking doesn't rest on Modi. Remember he too started aman ki Asha tamasha with Paxtan... Within days we got Pathankot terror attack. Then ISI agents were invited lmfao.. I vividly remember Kapil Mishra ripping Modi apart in streets of Delhi after than fiasco.
That probably was the grand signal to Maulana that Foreign policy is not cut for him.
We got Doval & Jaishankar Type people doing their job for us. Lol at overrating Maulana.
It's not hard to formulate policy. It's hard to be in government and implement policy.
We all know how fast the governmental agencies move. Now imagine your orders being passed down from layer to layer to layer to layer down to the man lowest in hierarchy. And then imagine them starting to move their arse.
Back up the layers to the top dog. In the meanwhile, a single layer could bottleneck and bring all progress to a grinding halt.
It's a miracle anything gets done.

For every ten variables you can think of, there are hundreds Modiya sees and has to take into consideration before making any move.

Modi isn't overrated, at least on DFI. It may get old but it's true that Modi has broken many sacrosanct rules in Indian polity.

Don't touch the nuclear power, lest it nuke you.
"Here, have a Balakot WWE Super Smash"

Don't touch the article granting autonomy to Kashmir or there will be a huge uprising.
"
IMG-20200228-WA0002.jpg
"

Thing is, people are expecting slammers after slammers.
He's not a rapper releasing rap songs. His moves have far reaching real world implications, in perfect or improvised execution.
Winning successive elections, running a country (and not letting it go to the dogs during Corona), running a successful vaccination campaign, implementing fintech usage in a developing country to the point everyone does it, getting yourself an almost cult like following, removing article 370, calling Pakistan's nuclear bluff out etc etc etc is not a deed of the low IQ.

You can call Modi many things but low IQ is not one of them. Hindsight's 20/20. You're judging the past harshly because you know the future.
 

indiatester

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Ever heard of Dunning-Krugger effect? All the Amateurs are full of confidence because they don't know what they don't know.

We, the people who have never worked in the national politics, are essentially amateurs. We know a lot of things that happen on the surface, but we don't know what goes behind the stage.

The common man is level 1. He believes what is shown and told.

The ones on DFI and the like are level 2. They analyze. Reason why someone is saying something. The interconnections. The hidden interests. The driving ideologies.

We can see a lot of things the common man can't.

Similarly, the ones above us can see a lot of things that we can't. We don't know what kind of deals are going on behind the scenes. The conditions. The cooperations. The alliances. Even in this hyper information age, a loooot of things are hidden.

Of course, no matter which level you are at, the final verdict is ground reality. The GDP. The Roads. The Income. The Cities.

Judge progress made by concrete things. Are the roads better than before? Are there more factories, more jobs, more profit? From my observation, yes there are. There is progress. Good progress.

The fact that people are taking no terrorist attack in major cities as granted. Or that they stopped bringing money outside and just use UPI. Or that we are actually having new trains and will have more. I can go on, but this is testament to changes at a fundamental level. And this only came after Modi govt.

Despite saying all this, I'm not painting Modi as flawless leader. He has his fair share of mistakes. He caked out in the face of farmer (read Khalistani) protests. No UCC yet. Economy didn't grow as fast as promised, even though some of the reasons lie in UPA era. Courts are still slow af. There is a lot to talk about here.

BUT.

Saying 'Modi is like any other leader until now, Modi has his own mistakes' would be stupid.

Modi's mistakes are by far very bearable and inflict far less damage to the nation and society.

The fact that you and majority of the country are viewing Modi as someone "responsible" for "fixing" this country is already a remarkable achievement.

When parliament was attacked during MMS, how many people viewed him as a problem solver? After Mumbai attacks, did people blame MMS?

To give an analogy, MMS is the student everyone gave up on. Modi is the one people of this country rooted for. He is THE one. He promised electricity, income and safety. If he failed spectacularly on all fronts, people would be disappointed in him. The discourse on him would die down.

But no. He succeeded in many things. But he didn't succeed in all. Especially in some things we'd really like. That's why some people are really frustrated with Modi. I'm not talking about Modi haters, but the ones who diss on him in this forum but still vote for him anyway. There are a lot of people like that, myself included.

Now, I just want to reply your post: line by line.



PM to select the right people to make the right expert decisions and sign the papers. PM needs to be someone who can take the tough decisions.

If you appoint 200 IQ harvard pass outs, they'll sell this country to US because it's the "smartest" thing.

Super high IQ isn't needed for this job. But Patriotism is necessary.

AAP is sleeping with Khalistanis and Rahul being the brown sepoy, there is no other National Patriotic Party.

If you know a party that is as patriotic as BJP and more capable, tell me. I will convince everyone I know to vote for it. And I'm fairly confident everyone on this forum will do the same.


Yeah, this is exactly the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Excellent points.

So, he f*cked up once with Pakistan. Then, he learnt his lesson. Now, there's no trade with Pakistan. It's in FATF grey list. We responded to the terror attacks not with "talks" but with retaliation for the first time.

Thing is, Modi has tried to smoothen up things with Pakistan. A possibility for peace and road to common prosperity. It's stupid af. Too optimistic and even delusional. But he gave it a try anyway. And he failed because Pakistan isn't willing. Then, he responded in kind. Now a days, GOI doesn't even take the name of Pakistan.

Same thing with China. He tried to make a good relationship with personal visits. Then Doklam and recently Galwan. Thus, Modi pushed the Atmanirbhar.

Jaishankar was in IFS for decades. Congress didn't spare him a glance. Modi put him in the position of power. No, I'm not talking down Jaishankar. He's the gem of our nation. The best FM we ever had. But if there was no Modi, this gem would have remained a hidden gem forever.

Credit must be given where it is due.

This is a democracy. We can of course complain. But we shouldn't blame others beyond a point. Because it's mostly the problem from within.

Do what you can and trust the system to do its job.

Jai Hind!
I'm confused when you on one point say that Modi has screwed up one with pakistan and also say "Modi has tried to smoothen up things with Pakistan".

I think the initial outreach was necessary to avoid blame that no effort was made from this govt side. Now the onus is on the paki side to overwhelmingly show how they have eliminated all of anti-India infrastructure before we even begin to show trust. Our guys will cave in much early though... but still we have a very valid reason to hold that opinion and stance. Without the initial outreach, we wouldn't have had it.
 

mist_consecutive

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Ever heard of Dunning-Krugger effect? All the Amateurs are full of confidence because they don't know what they don't know.

We, the people who have never worked in the national politics, are essentially amateurs. We know a lot of things that happen on the surface, but we don't know what goes behind the stage.

The common man is level 1. He believes what is shown and told.

The ones on DFI and the like are level 2. They analyze. Reason why someone is saying something. The interconnections. The hidden interests. The driving ideologies.

We can see a lot of things the common man can't.

Similarly, the ones above us can see a lot of things that we can't. We don't know what kind of deals are going on behind the scenes. The conditions. The cooperations. The alliances. Even in this hyper information age, a loooot of things are hidden.

Of course, no matter which level you are at, the final verdict is ground reality. The GDP. The Roads. The Income. The Cities.

Judge progress made by concrete things. Are the roads better than before? Are there more factories, more jobs, more profit? From my observation, yes there are. There is progress. Good progress.

The fact that people are taking no terrorist attack in major cities as granted. Or that they stopped bringing money outside and just use UPI. Or that we are actually having new trains and will have more. I can go on, but this is testament to changes at a fundamental level. And this only came after Modi govt.

Despite saying all this, I'm not painting Modi as flawless leader. He has his fair share of mistakes. He caked out in the face of farmer (read Khalistani) protests. No UCC yet. Economy didn't grow as fast as promised, even though some of the reasons lie in UPA era. Courts are still slow af. There is a lot to talk about here.

BUT.

Saying 'Modi is like any other leader until now, Modi has his own mistakes' would be stupid.

Modi's mistakes are by far very bearable and inflict far less damage to the nation and society.

The fact that you and majority of the country are viewing Modi as someone "responsible" for "fixing" this country is already a remarkable achievement.

When parliament was attacked during MMS, how many people viewed him as a problem solver? After Mumbai attacks, did people blame MMS?

To give an analogy, MMS is the student everyone gave up on. Modi is the one people of this country rooted for. He is THE one. He promised electricity, income and safety. If he failed spectacularly on all fronts, people would be disappointed in him. The discourse on him would die down.

But no. He succeeded in many things. But he didn't succeed in all. Especially in some things we'd really like. That's why some people are really frustrated with Modi. I'm not talking about Modi haters, but the ones who diss on him in this forum but still vote for him anyway. There are a lot of people like that, myself included.

Now, I just want to reply your post: line by line.



PM to select the right people to make the right expert decisions and sign the papers. PM needs to be someone who can take the tough decisions.

If you appoint 200 IQ harvard pass outs, they'll sell this country to US because it's the "smartest" thing.

Super high IQ isn't needed for this job. But Patriotism is necessary.

AAP is sleeping with Khalistanis and Rahul being the brown sepoy, there is no other National Patriotic Party.

If you know a party that is as patriotic as BJP and more capable, tell me. I will convince everyone I know to vote for it. And I'm fairly confident everyone on this forum will do the same.


Yeah, this is exactly the Dunning-Kruger effect.



So, he f*cked up once with Pakistan. Then, he learnt his lesson. Now, there's no trade with Pakistan. It's in FATF grey list. We responded to the terror attacks not with "talks" but with retaliation for the first time.

Thing is, Modi has tried to smoothen up things with Pakistan. A possibility for peace and road to common prosperity. It's stupid af. Too optimistic and even delusional. But he gave it a try anyway. And he failed because Pakistan isn't willing. Then, he responded in kind. Now a days, GOI doesn't even take the name of Pakistan.

Same thing with China. He tried to make a good relationship with personal visits. Then Doklam and recently Galwan. Thus, Modi pushed the Atmanirbhar.

Jaishankar was in IFS for decades. Congress didn't spare him a glance. Modi put him in the position of power. No, I'm not talking down Jaishankar. He's the gem of our nation. The best FM we ever had. But if there was no Modi, this gem would have remained a hidden gem forever.

Credit must be given where it is due.

This is a democracy. We can of course complain. But we shouldn't blame others beyond a point. Because it's mostly the problem from within.

Do what you can and trust the system to do its job.

Jai Hind!
I seldom come across such an excellently articulated and well-informed reply on this forum, your thought process is clear, and your language is succinct. Perhaps you are a fellow intellectual.

I welcome you to participate more on this forum and decorate it with more such gems.
 

Love Charger

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No I agree with this. For once the politician is not to blame so much here, it’s the babus and uniformed professionals that should be ashamed of themselves.

look at the number of generals standing around in that picture who were present at this debacle, they are meant to be subject matter experts but seem to think it’s okay to bring this to defence minister of India to sign off on? Similarly the defence secretary is meant to have some knowledge.

this is what is so enraging about the entire thing- it reveals how deep the rot is, either through malice or sheer incompetence these jokers are not prepared for anything.

Who is going to tell the emperor he’s naked? For its size india is an incredibly weak and soft target, the Chinese aren’t.
The Pakistanis will tell us sir soon enough
 

abingdonboy

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The Pakistanis will tell us sir soon enough
The Pakis will struggle to survive the next 5 years. BUT they will be useful proxies for the Chinese

there’s a reason the Chinese are focusing on building up the PN and PAF most of all whilst the PLA ties down the IA at the border

within a decade there will be near parity between the IAF and PAF both qualitatively and quantitatively (perhaps the first time this has been the case in living memory) and the PN will be able to keep the Western fleet of the IN engaged whilst the IN is still dreaming of their gold plated P75I. All whilst the Chinese build up
 

omaebakabaka

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The Pakis will struggle to survive the next 5 years. BUT they will be useful proxies for the Chinese

there’s a reason the Chinese are focusing on building up the PN and PAF most of all whilst the PLA ties down the IA at the border

within a decade there will be near parity between the IAF and PAF both qualitatively and quantitatively (perhaps the first time this has been the case in living memory) and the PN will be able to keep the Western fleet of the IN engaged whilst the IN is still dreaming of their gold plated P75I. All whilst the Chinese build up
I dont think this will be the case once we cross that inflection point of inducting Tejas line, there is simply no way pakis will be able to go one on one with us even with Chinese supporting them when we reach 5T mark....China have their own problems just starting now. India should do more to collapse the converted trash land.

It is a concern and I agree that IAF has no plans of replenishing the squads other than Tejas line which initially are mig 21 replacments in terms of numbers....so pretty much some sabotage in the making.
 

Love Charger

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The Pakis will struggle to survive the next 5 years. BUT they will be useful proxies for the Chinese

there’s a reason the Chinese are focusing on building up the PN and PAF most of all whilst the PLA ties down the IA at the border

within a decade there will be near parity between the IAF and PAF both qualitatively and quantitatively (perhaps the first time this has been the case in living memory) and the PN will be able to keep the Western fleet of the IN engaged whilst the IN is still dreaming of their gold plated P75I. All whilst the Chinese build up
Why the fuck are indian armed forces behaving like Germans?
Did they colonise us ? Or did the japs ?
Behave like the brits for once ,atleast when navy is concerned. Create new ships. Of similar types in numbers.
More and more , mirror the production outlook of royal navy of ww2 and ww1 .the grand fleet forced the German high seas fleet to hide in wilhelmshaven
And anyone else dont give me chooran of our own strategy reeeeeeeee, because there is no such strategy reeeeeee.
Hurrrrdurrrrr IA. IN, IAF ( the worst of the three ) look literally towards cold war soviet doctrine or ww2 .
Then atleast make weapons like they did .
 

abingdonboy

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I dont think this will be the case once we cross that inflection point of inducting Tejas line, there is simply no way pakis will be able to go one on one with us even with Chinese supporting them when we reach 5T mark....China have their own problems just starting now. India should do more to collapse the converted trash land.

It is a concern and I agree that IAF has no plans of replenishing the squads other than Tejas line which initially are mig 21 replacments in terms of numbers....so pretty much some sabotage in the making.
Even the most optimistic projection by the IAF is 35 squadrons by 2035, they have ZERO plan to get to their sanctioned 42 squadrons within the next 20 years apparently.

this 35 includes 6 squadrons of MRFA. I’m 100% certain they’ll never get even a single jet from this process.

the PAF is aiming to have ~30 squadrons by 2030 and they can put almost their entire force on the East whilst IAF has to split East, West and even to the South

Somehow they aren’t translating extra resources into extra output

LCA is no inflection point because they’ve already started to sacrifice it for MRFA (12 MK.2 squadrons turned into 10 and now 6). These mega import deals are stealing attention and resources away from indigenous solutions- the navy is no different with their P75I and NUH drama
 

jai jaganath

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Even the most optimistic projection by the IAF is 35 squadrons by 2035, they have ZERO plan to get to their sanctioned 42 squadrons within the next 20 years apparently.

this 35 includes 6 squadrons of MRFA. I’m 100% certain they’ll never get even a single jet from this process.

the PAF is aiming to have ~30 squadrons by 2030 and they can put almost their entire force on the East whilst IAF has to split East, West and even to the South

Somehow they aren’t translating extra resources into extra output

LCA is no inflection point because they’ve already started to sacrifice it for MRFA (12 MK.2 squadrons turned into 10 and now 6). These mega import deals are stealing attention and resources away from indigenous solutions- the navy is no different with their P75I and NUH drama
I literally laugh when Indians on internet tease pakis about their armed forces
After 10 years these Indians would be defending that we don't need to maintain parity with pakis bcoz nos doesn't matter qualityyyyyyy matters :pound::pound::pound::pound::pound:
Just wait 10-15 years then u will see a failed nation threatening 3rd largest economy with a formidable armed forces
Basically until our armed forces aren't butthurt especially iaf they won't learn personally speaking even after being defeated they won't learn and go back to sleep
Yeh log jung ladhenge
When China + Pakistan will hit us badly they will be looking at ceiling
 

omaebakabaka

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Even the most optimistic projection by the IAF is 35 squadrons by 2035, they have ZERO plan to get to their sanctioned 42 squadrons within the next 20 years apparently.

this 35 includes 6 squadrons of MRFA. I’m 100% certain they’ll never get even a single jet from this process.

the PAF is aiming to have ~30 squadrons by 2030 and they can put almost their entire force on the East whilst IAF has to split East, West and even to the South

Somehow they aren’t translating extra resources into extra output

LCA is no inflection point because they’ve already started to sacrifice it for MRFA (12 MK.2 squadrons turned into 10 and now 6). These mega import deals are stealing attention and resources away from indigenous solutions- the navy is no different with their P75I and NUH drama
PAF simply does not have depth to require 30 squads....odds are they would go kaput playing US and China. We need to buy more planes but this decision paralysis is fucking us....At this point we can't totally stop imports while Tejas is still an infant and requires time to ramp up. Some chootiyas are sitting in south block.
 

johnj

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The Pakis will struggle to survive the next 5 years. BUT they will be useful proxies for the Chinese

there’s a reason the Chinese are focusing on building up the PN and PAF most of all whilst the PLA ties down the IA at the border

within a decade there will be near parity between the IAF and PAF both qualitatively and quantitatively (perhaps the first time this has been the case in living memory) and the PN will be able to keep the Western fleet of the IN engaged whilst the IN is still dreaming of their gold plated P75I. All whilst the Chinese build up
Pak will easy survive, thanks to US, China & Saudi, but pakistanis will struggle to survive - and some 8 ssk is not going to change a lot.
 

omaebakabaka

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Pak will easy survive, thanks to US, China & Saudi, but pakistanis will struggle to survive - and some 8 ssk is not going to change a lot.
They can't even fund theie basics without a pan in the hand, chickens will come to roast as the world gets into more difficulties ahead. IAF is the most serious potential setback for us and the key in future wars
 

Rex72920

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I literally laugh when Indians on internet tease pakis about their armed forces
After 10 years these Indians would be defending that we don't need to maintain parity with pakis bcoz nos doesn't matter qualityyyyyyy matters :pound::pound::pound::pound::pound:
Just wait 10-15 years then u will see a failed nation threatening 3rd largest economy with a formidable armed forces
Basically until our armed forces aren't butthurt especially iaf they won't learn personally speaking even after being defeated they won't learn and go back to sleep
Yeh log jung ladhenge
When China + Pakistan will hit us badly they will be looking at ceiling
Tu to bara over smart nikla.
bhosdi-ke-mirzapur.gif

Pakistan's forex reserve is at 7.5$ billion. They only have funds left to finance their imports for this month. Let their economy survive till 2030 & their runways survive our SAAW & Brahmos before the onset of war, then will see how far their fighters can fly.
 

johnj

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I think this is somewhat incorrect, they go through various programs to study military science and juxtaposing with their field experience, they should be very knowledgeable in defining the asks from the industry. THere is too much info available across the world and various wars that the only primary factor becomes field experience to come up with specific localized requirements.
True, that's why they still interested in cold war era weapons & russian weapons.
Also Our forces train & conduct military exercise with foreign countries which helps to understand new tech & capabilities, and help in creating rfi & new items plus watch conflicts around the world.
Anyways, if military wants future weapons, first buy current ones, which help profit & confidence to producer, and they start r&d of future
 

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