India opens bids in $10.4-bn combat plane tender.

[trackwhack]

oops, wrong post

 

[p2prada]

By choosing either of the euro-birds India will end up in a very difficult situation, financially. Those 126 birds will cost around 20 billion dollars to buy, but their life-long cost (assuming 30 years) will triple that to around 60 billion dollars, in other words 2 billion dollars each year. This might not sound that much, but considering the fact that the airforce gets no more than 1/3 of the defence budget, and that under normal circumstances only half of the allocated moeny goes towards hardware purchases and maintainance, 2 billion a year for a single program is quite a lot.

That's how much aircraft these days cost. Even MKI is nearing the $80million mark per piece.

$2Billion a year to thwart the Chinese dragon should be enough, is it not?

Budget allocation isn't fixed. It varies depending on the need. In the next 5 years the IA will have a massive budget because of the FINSAS program. If IN wants a lot of ACs, SSN and SSBNs then even they may end up with a larger acquisition budget.

 

[tony4562]

Our defense budget will be 120 billion by 2015. If 1/3rd goes to the Airforce, thats still 40 billion. Of course 2 billion can be spent on the program. By 2020, we are talking of a 180 billion dollar defense spending. Go figure.

India's defence budget for 2010 was 38.4 billion. To go from this to 120 billion a year within 5 years is utterly unrealistic. Now if you factor in current economic situation which one might describe as hopeless, india's defence expenditure in dollar terms will probably go down instead of go up. In fact, since the rupee has lost so much against dollar lately, India's nominal GDP will experience negative growth for the year. I think right now the economic landscape has changed so much so fast the last 6-12 months that it has caught the government of India completely off guard.

 

[tony4562]

That's how much aircraft these days cost. Even MKI is nearing the $80million mark per piece.

$2Billion a year to thwart the Chinese dragon should be enough, is it not?

Budget allocation isn't fixed. It varies depending on the need. In the next 5 years the IA will have a massive budget because of the FINSAS program. If IN wants a lot of ACs, SSN and SSBNs then even they may end up with a larger acquisition budget.

Unfortunately the MMRCA is only appetizer compared to the other mamooth purchases waiting in the pipeline. PAK-FA is likely to cost 2-3 times more, P75 submarine project, the P15A follow-on project all likely will cost in tens of billions of dollars. There are numerous other projects that will cost at least as much as the MMRCA order.

At any rate with an economy that is rapidly deteriorating India is garanteed to get more than she can chew.

 

[asianobserve]

By choosing either of the euro-birds India will end up in a very difficult situation, financially. Those 126 birds will cost around 20 billion dollars to buy, but their life-long cost (assuming 30 years) will triple that to around 60 billion dollars, in other words 2 billion dollars each year. This might not sound that much, but considering the fact that the airforce gets no more than 1/3 of the defence budget, and that under normal circumstances only half of the allocated moeny goes towards hardware purchases and maintainance, 2 billion a year for a single program is quite a lot.

This purchase is slowly mirroring Indian foreign policy. The IAF has now Russian, French, Anglo-French, (maybe EU consortium), Brazilian, American, Indian jets. They can't make up their mind (pardon my French). This is a logistical nightmare, training will very complicated, systems integration, and the long term cost of maintaining distinct aircrafts will only add up to the already astronomical price of either the Rafale or EF. India could have opted for the MKI and induct it in masse. That way when the Pakfa is introduced it would be easier to transition since it shares a lot of systems with MKI. The "lo" end could be the Tejas...

I know this has been debated many times already and is now moot as the IAF is set to choose either Rafale or EF.

 

[Zebra]

The Japan government will acquire 42 units of F-35A after the financial year 2012 , the estimated deal worth more than $4 billion .

F-35 Wins Japan Fighter Competition - Defense News

 

[asianobserve]

The Japan government will acquire 42 units of F-35A after the financial year 2012 , the estimated deal worth more than $4 billion .

F-35 Wins Japan Fighter Competition - Defense News

American muscle.

 

[Zebra]

American muscle.

not a bad deal ,

42 F-35A = more than 4 b$ .

 

[tony4562]

not a bad deal ,

42 F-35A = more than 4 b$ .

That number is little bit on the optimistic side considering that US itself is paying more than 100 million dollars a pop:

F-35 Unit Cost Nears $160M as Lockheed Wins $4Bn for LRIP 5 Lot. Maybe it is bare bone price.

 

[asianobserve]

not a bad deal ,

42 F-35A = more than 4 b$ .

Understand that it is a "package."

 

[Zebra]

Understand that it is a "package."

Japan swoops for F-35, shoots down Typhoon, F/A-18E/F

PrintBy: Stephen Trimble Washington DC 18 hours ago

Source: Japan has selected the Lockheed Martin F-35A joint strike fighter (JSF) for its F-X contract, which purchases 42 aircraft to replace an ageing fleet of McDonnell Douglas F-4Js.

The contract award announced on 20 December makes Japan the second country outside the nine F-35 development partners after Israel to select the jet. The initial contract will be for four jets in Japan Fiscal Year 2012, which begins 1 April, 2012.

"We are honored by the confidence the Japanese government has placed in the F-35 and our industry team to deliver this Fifth Generation fighter to the Japan Air Self Defense Force," said Bob Stevens, Lockheed Martin chairman and chief executive officer. "This announcement begins a new chapter in our long-standing partnership with Japanese industry and builds on the strong security cooperation between the USA and Japan."
The announcement also dealt a fresh blow to the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Eurofighter Typhoon.

However, the Typhoon remains in competition with the Dassault Rafale in India, while the F/A-18E/F continues to look for new sales in the Middle East and Brazil.

Japan's decision also provides a timely boost for an F-35 programme that faces budget cutbacks and even higher scrutiny over new technical challenges by the US government

Despite an at least five-year delay and major cost overruns, the Japan deal shows the F-35 remains viable for the export market.

The F-35A combines the features of a stealthy airframe, an integrated suite of advanced sensors and supersonic speed.

It was designed to function as a premier ground attack aircraft, but Lockheed and the US government claims stealth and advanced sensors make it six times more effective in air combat than the fighters it replaces.

Lockheed says the F-35A can be delivered for an average unit cost of about $75 million, although that number assumes the US and eight partner countries order more than 3,100 jets during the next 25 years.

In service with the Japan air self-defence forces, the F-35A will join the Mitsubishi F-2 multi-role fighter and the Mitsubishi F-15J interceptor.

Japan swoops for F-35, shoots down Typhoon, F/A-18E/F

So all others extra ....like additional $15 million for the engine .

 

[ace009]

Back to topic - what's going on with MMRCA? Still "evaluating" or "negotiating"? Any activity in the unnumbered swiss bank accounts?

 

[JAISWAL]

Broadsword: Decision on combat aircraft within fortnight
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.
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The defence ministry (MoD) indicates a decision is imminent about whether the Air Force will buy the Typhoon or the Rafale; that Army chief, General V K Singh, will not get another year in office; and that indigenous ballistic missiles are the success story of this year. These are the highlights of the MoD's 'Year-end Review', an annual summary released on Wednesday.

The review terms 2011 'The Decisive Year for the MMRCA', suggesting the winner of the contest to sell India 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft could be announced this fortnight. In April, the MoD eliminated Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Mikoyan and Saab, leaving only Dassault's Rafale and Eurofighter's Typhoon in the fray. On November 4, the two commercial bids were opened. The IAF has given a comparative evaluation and the ball is now in the MoD's court.

Once the winning bid is announced, the MoD will convene a 'Contract Negotiation Committee' to negotiate a final price. MoD sources indicate that price quoted by both vendors is significantly higher than the Rs 42,000 crore the Union Cabinet cleared for this purchase.

The MoD's annual review also indicates ballistic missile development has topped the Defence R&D Organisation's (DRDO's) indigenous programmes. Nine successful missile tests were conducted and the launch of the new 3,500 km range Agni-4 Ballistic Missile on November 15 is termed "the highlight of the year".

Other missiles tested include the Prithvi-2; the Dhanush (both with a range of 350 km); the new Prahaar tactical battlefield missile (200 km); the Pakistan-specific Agni-1 (700 km); and Agni-2 (2,000 km); and the innovative, hybrid Shourya missile (700 km) that can be fired from land or a submarine.

The review is silent on the Agni-5 intermediate range ballistic missile, which was to have been fired this month. However, the DRDO postponed this high-profile test till February-March 2012, reducing developmental risk by testing and validating several of the Agni-5's new technologies on the Agni-4.

Another success story is the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft. IAF granted the Tejas its first stage of operational clearance in January 11; final operational clearance is expected next year. The review also mentions the naval Tejas, which will fly off the navy's aircraft carriers. Having completed its engine ground run in September 11, it will shortly take to the skies.

The MoD review falsely eulogises the long-delayed Kaveri engine, which DRDO is developing for the Tejas. While the Kaveri did indeed complete 'Flying Test Bed' trials in Russia this year, powering a modified IL-76 transport aircraft, it remains well short of the power needed for the Tejas fighter. The DRDO is now partnering French engine-maker, Snecma, in an attempt to resurrect the Kaveri.

Another success story in the 'Year-end Review' is the warship building programme. Two major warships were commissioned this year: the 6,200-tonne frigate, INS Satpura in August; and the 27,500 tonne, 'made-in-Italy' fleet tanker, INS Deepak, in January. Another major warship, the 3,000-tonne indigenous anti-submarine corvette, INS Kadmatt, was launched in October. Four smaller Coast Guard and navy vessels were also launched. To nurture design capability, defence minister Antony laid the foundation stone for the National Institute for Research and Development in Defence Shipbuilding in January.

2012 could see a further boost. Likely to be commissioned are two Kolkata-class destroyers, each 6,800 tonnes; the Satpura's successor frigate, INS Sahyadri; and the anti-submarine corvette, INS Kamorta, along with several other smaller craft.

Tantalisingly, the review suggests the MoD could ignore army chief General V K Singh's petition, asking for his date of birth to be corrected, which would give him an additional year in office till May 2013. The review states, "MoD's decision setting at rest the controversy of the age of Chief of Army staff General V K Singh was prominently carried by the media in July."

The Review illustrates the growing role of military diplomacy, listing 27 international exchanges at the service chief or MoD level. The military also carried out seven exercises with friendly foreign countries, including the US, France, Turkey, Oman and Singapore. However, diplomatic niceties find no place in the review. It categorises Pakistan's prompt return of an Indian helicopter — which strayed across the Line of Control near Kargil and landed at a Pakistani helipad in October — as 'The Non-Event of the Year'.

 

[p2prada]

Seems like MRCA is on the fast track.

Also it appears the Kolkata class ships aren't delayed.

 

[arundo]

are there some rumors concerning a favorite? Who's in the pole?
What do you guys think or feel?

 

[agentperry]

well kolkatta class destroyers are supposed to be commissioned by 2012 but the protection suit for them that is barak2 will be ready for induction in 2013 that too anticipated as the very first test is still to be conducted.

i think by 2012 only ship will be made and weapon integration will come in the next 1-2 years. making ships available by 2014 at the earliest

 

[Twinblade]

are there some rumors concerning a favorite? Who's in the pole?
What do you guys think or feel?

Griephan, a German defence publication, tweeted that Rafale's bid was based on a successful UAE contract (hence lowering unit cost), but that is now in trouble.

 

[SpArK]

AK Antony gonna play Santa Claus and bring the goodies for the good boys .

 

[tony4562]

AK Antony gonna play Santa Claus and bring the goodies for the good boys .

I hope that GOI will finaly come to senses and decides that India can not behave like oil-rich Sheiks by spending senselessly on imported arms. Let's hope that money allocated for MRCA will now be spent on housing projects to the 1 million+ Dharavi residents instead. In other words playing Santa to India's own people instead of playing Santa to the fat cats of western arms industries.

 

[Dovah]

I hope that GOI will finaly come to senses and decides that India can not behave like oil-rich Sheiks by spending senselessly on imported arms. Let's hope that money allocated for MRCA will now be spent on housing projects to the 1 million+ Dharavi residents instead. In other words playing Santa to India's own people instead of playing Santa to the fat cats of western arms industries.

Or we could make fake cities and failed Disney Land instead!!!