India opens bids in $10.4-bn combat plane tender.

[bhramos]

1 fortnight = 14 days

so hold on, it still too early to open the champagne.

is it really true??????

1 fortnight = 14 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SpArK]

14 days?/

We already waited for 14 years.

I try and feel the sunshine
You bring the rain
You try and hold me down
With your complaints
You cry and moan and complain
You whine an tear
Up to my neck in sorrow
The touch you bring
You just don't step inside to 14 years
So hard to keep my own head...that's what I say
You know...I've been the beggar...
I've played the thief
I was the dog...they all tried to beat

But it's been
Fourteen years of silence
It's been
Fourteen years of pain
It's been
Fourteen years that are gone forever
And I'll never have again

Your stupid girlfriends tell you
That I'm to blame
Well - they're all used-up has-beens
Out of the game
This time I'll have the last word
You hear what I say
I tried to see it your way
It won't work today
You don't just step inside to 14 years
So hard to keep my own head...that's what I say
You know...I've been the dealer...hangin' on your street
I was the dog...they all tried to beat​

But it's been
Fourteen years of silence
It's been
Fourteen years of pain
It's been
Fourteen years that are gone forever
And I'll never have again​

Bullshit and contemplation
Gossip's their trade
If they knew half the real truth
What would they say
Well I'm past the point of concern
It's time to play
These last four years of madness
Sure put me straight
You don't get back fourteen years
In just one day
So hard to keep my own head
Just go away
You know...just like a hooker she said
Nothin's for free
Oh I tried to see it your way
I tried to see it your way​

 

[ashdoc]

i already know rafale has won the competition. :taunt1:

haha !

Rafale now on par with EFT in the polls...

Rafale sure is the best for IAF.

i said that months ago :taunt1:

i hope all this favour for the rafale is not due to sympathy for its ' not-a-single-piece-sold ' status .

we indians are great for having a bleeding heart rescuing the weak and meek of the world .

anyway , a mig 29 pilot i know told me that both planes will be selected !!:shocked:

that he would be flying typhoons a few years down the line , and mirage pilots would fly rafales !!

 

[Yawn]

i hope all this favour for the rafale is not due to sympathy for its ' not-a-single-piece-sold ' status .

we indians are great for having a bleeding heart rescuing the weak and meek of the world .

anyway , a mig 29 pilot i know told me that both planes will be selected !!:shocked:

that he would be flying typhoons a few years down the line , and mirage pilots would fly rafales !!

Not doubting you but are you serious? That would make the IAF rival the Smithsonian air and space museum in variety of fighters. I have heard 'rumours' of such a split earlier but there are too many practical issues to consider.

 

[ganesh177]

First it was supposed to be mid december, now its fortnight.
After fortnight, they will find new term to delay the decision.
Playing with the emotions.

 

[p2prada]

anyway , a mig 29 pilot i know told me that both planes will be selected !!:shocked:

that he would be flying typhoons a few years down the line , and mirage pilots would fly rafales !!

Either he is misinformed, he knows something else or he was just playing with you.

Only one will be selected and Rafale FTW.

 

[logosX]

This is a question.

After many technical evaluations (Swiss, Dutch etc...), we know that the Rafale is a much better aircraft.
But, if you look at the poll, you see that the EF is leading. How do you explain this fact ?

My explanation is that some people vote for the aircraft they want to sell to India because they are from UK or from Germany etc...
I don't think that people think that the weaker aircraft "should win"...

For sure, people don't like the truth.

Do you have an other explanation?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

In other words you love EF..

Say it openly and for your question give a look at this thread, Its full of it.. :cool2:

 

[Tshering22]

Now I am wondering whether IAF is even interested in keeping our pilots alive....7 years for 126 jets... pathetic.

 

[JayATL]

Okay, I have a question for the technology guru's here.

no technology remains unsolvable for a very long time. i.e. if in the next decade someone develops a radar to identify stealth aircrafts, then all 5 gen aircrafts become 4 gen overnight ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The Generation term is developed by Americans for marketing business..

A well mordanised MIG-21 can be heavy on a F-15C, Same goes for others..




Besides, New generation fighters are more than stealth degin, They are more coordinated and more updated where past flaws are corrected..

 

[p2prada]

Now I am wondering whether IAF is even interested in keeping our pilots alive....7 years for 126 jets... pathetic.

At 8 a year, France is going to take 16 years to finish the same. Production for 180 Rafale will go on till 2018.

This is a question.

After many technical evaluations (Swiss, Dutch etc...), we know that the Rafale is a much better aircraft.
But, if you look at the poll, you see that the EF is leading. How do you explain this fact ?

My explanation is that some people vote for the aircraft they want to sell to India because they are from UK or from Germany etc...
I don't think that people think that the weaker aircraft "should win"...

For sure, people don't like the truth.

Do you have an other explanation?

Rafale may have had a lead in technical evaluations. But EF is simply the better aircraft in A2A, no matter how you look it.

Rafale is an all round aircraft and a lot of electronics have already been built and tested unlike the EF. The first version of F-22 will be inferior in tech specs to the Rafale as well.

Personally I voted for Rafale, but I guess EF has an equal chance, if not more, at winning this.

 

[John_Rambo]

I voted for the Rafael because it already has a naval variant and an working AESA radar compared to EF which has neither. The Rafaels airframe seems to be more well designed and streamlined. We could just ditch both and go for an home grown twin engine aircraft based on the know how we gained from the LCA i think we know how to build an 4.5 gen airframe all we need is the engine tech and radars.

 

[arundo]

Rafale may have had a lead in technical evaluations. But EF is simply the better aircraft in A2A, no matter how you look it.

The Swiss came to a different conclusion, as we know. They attested better qualities as well in a2g as in a2a to Rafale and the difference was not really close, according to the Armasuisse evaluation from 09...

 

[SNB]

Who cares what the Swiss or the Arabs think of either Typhoon or Rafale, we should take a page from the UAE and pressure the French to give us a better deal on the price and tech transfer . Without having sold a single fighter to foreign countries the french are more susceptible to pressures , India should look out for its own interests.

 

[p2prada]

The Swiss came to a different conclusion, as we know. They attested better qualities as well in a2g as in a2a to Rafale and the difference was not really close, according to the Armasuisse evaluation from 09...

It depends on what their requirements were. Their technical specifications may be different from IAF's, Austria's or even Luftwaffe's.

 

[SpArK]

Rupee fall jacks up India's arms purchase bill


New Delhi December 25, 2011,


The falling rupee and the defence ministry's (MoD's) tardiness could cost India an extra Rs 15,000 crore for its planned purchase of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA). On 31st October 2010, three months after the Indian Air Force submitted its flight trial report to the MoD (i.e. roughly the time needed for evaluating the price bids; negotiating a final cost; and awarding the contract) the rupee reached its high-water mark of Rs 43.71 to the dollar. Had the MoD signed the MMRCA contract then, the anticipated bid price of $15 billion would have amounted to Rs 65,565 crore. An extra Rs 1,311 crore for the 2% cost of hedging the forex risk would have taken the tab to Rs 66,876 crore.


Today, at about Rs 53 to the dollar, that $15 billion bid translates into Rs 79,500 crore. The two per cent cost of forex hedging is Rs 1,590 crore, taking the bill to Rs 81,090 crore, Rs 15,525 crore more than last October. The MoD is set to pay almost twice the Rs 42,000 crore that was budgeted for the MMRCA.


If the MoD does not hedge the forex risk, and the dollar hits Rs 58, the MMRCA cost would rise further to a mind-boggling Rs 87,000 crore.


This disastrous exposure to the rupee's diminishing fortunes is the MoD's own failure. In 2003 a committee, headed by Shashanka Bhide of the National Council of Applied Economic Research (NCAER), examined a proposal to hedge forex risk in defence contracts. The committee's unequivocal recommendation — that the forex component of defence contracts be invariably hedged against fluctuation — remains ignored to this day.


The Bhide Committee found that the cost of hedging forex risk would increase the cost of a contract by two per cent, but not doing so risked an Exchange Rate Variation (ERV) that averaged four to five per cent over the duration of a defence contract. This ERV is naturally larger during strongly negative periods for the rupee, like the present.


An illustrative example is provided by the MoD's forex outgo this year of about Rs 50,000 crore. Hedging forex risk could cost three per cent today (a high premium due to the rupee's volatility); while ERV losses seem very likely to exceed five per cent. The extra two per cent lost on a Rs 50,000 crore forex payout amounts to a whopping Rs 1,000 crores.


MoD's forex outgo



The MoD's capital budget (Rs 69,199 crore in 2011-12), which buys new arms and equipment, is not all disbursed in foreign exchange. Institute of Defence Studies and Analysis (IDSA) expert, G Balachandran, says that barely Rs 25,000 crore of that amount would be disbursed in foreign exchange; the rest would be paid in rupees to Indian vendors. The bulk of this goes to the 8 defence public sector undertakings (DPSUs) like Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd and Bharat Electricals Ltd; and the 41 factories of the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB).


But DPSUs and the OFB —which incorporate many foreign components in the equipment that they build— will disburse another Rs 20,000 crore to foreign vendors this year, says Balachandran. That would raise the forex outgo to Rs 45,000 crore.


Additionally, a portion of the revenue budget (which is Rs 95,216 crore this fiscal) would be paid out in foreign exchange. The revenue budget is earmarked for running expenses like pay and allowances; maintenance and spare parts; housing and storage; food and fuel; all the day-to-day running of the military. Of this, about Rs 5,000 crore worth of ammunition, and aircraft spares and engines, are purchased from abroad.


That takes the MoD's budgeted forex spend to approximately Rs 50,000 crore this year. Going by the exchange rate of Rs 44.43 at the start of this fiscal, the budget catered for about $11.25 billion in overseas payments.


Lopsided spending


Only a small percentage of this was paid out in the first six months of this fiscal year, when the rupee was relatively stable. MoD sources say that, by October-end (the latest figures available), just 37 per cent of the capital budget had been expended, i.e. the equivalent of $4.15 billion, with procurement worth $7.1 billion still pending.


Skewing spending towards the end of the financial year, is standard MoD malpractice; in the last fiscal year, the MoD did 33 per cent of its capital procurement in the last month, i.e. March 2011.


Since the dollar was relatively stable then the damage was limited. Over the last three months, the dollar's sprint to Rs 53 levels means that the remaining outgo of $7.1 billion will cost Rs 37,630 crore, Rs 6,000 crore more than the budgeted amount.


In contrast to the under spent capital budget, the revenue budget is overspent: 62 per centof the revenue budget was spent by end-October, say sources. At this stage last fiscal, just 56 per cent of the revenue budget had been spent.


With the Ministry of Finance (MoF) grappling with the national fiscal deficit, MoD officials do not realistically expect assistance from that quarter. By end-October the fiscal deficit was already 74.4 per centof the budgeted figure (compared to 42.6 per cent last year). The MoF has issued a note requesting all ministries to prune expenditure.


"The writing is on the wall. It seems we will have to cross-subsidise our revenue budget from our capital budget this year", says a senior MoD official.




Rupee fall jacks up India's arms purchase bill

 

[p2prada]

What a stupid article. I did not even bother reading it.

When the Su-30 deal was signed the Rupee was 37 to a Dollar.
Monthly Exchange Rate Average (Indian Rupee, American Dollar) 1997 - x-rates

Now it is 53 to a Dollar. The MKI program was bigger than the MRCA program when it started.

 

[SpArK]

What a stupid article. I did not even bother reading it.

When the Su-30 deal was signed the Rupee was 37 to a Dollar.
Monthly Exchange Rate Average (Indian Rupee, American Dollar) 1997 - x-rates

Now it is 53 to a Dollar. The MKI program was bigger than the MRCA program when it started.

Its that ajay shukla classic from Business standard.

After unsuccessful campaigns on US fighters, F-35 and then gripen, he is into money thing.

 

[p2prada]

Its that ajay shukla classic from Business standard.

After unsuccessful campaigns on US fighters, F-35 and then gripen, he is into money thing.

Ah! Thanks for pointing out, I did not check the link.