India opens bids in $10.4-bn combat plane tender.

[LETHALFORCE]

why keep buying SU-30 MKI's when we are also giving them a huge PAKFA order in the future?

 

[tony4562]

SU-30MKI operational cost and Maintenance cost are higher than both MRCA aircrafts..

Mainly due to engines..

Both MRCA candiates will have a life-long cost of 500 million dollars or more per aircraft. No Su30 variant will even remotely cost that much. Or india could reconsider Mig35, Gripen or F18, they all cost 50-60 milion $ a piece (Mig's even lower), and offer similar capabilities.

 

[p2prada]

Both MRCA candiates will have a life-long cost of 500 million dollars or more per aircraft. No Su30 variant will even remotely cost that much. Or india could reconsider Mig35, Gripen or F18, they all cost 50-60 milion $ a piece (Mig's even lower), and offer similar capabilities.

The MRCA candidates are cheaper to operate than the MKI. Most say the Rafale is more expensive than the EF in operating costs. But definitely less than MKI.

Mig-35 may cost $60million, but SH and Gripen will cost much more. The Americans aren't selling it at the price they sell to captive markets(USN, USAF, USMC). The costs are higher. Gripen is quite expensive in unit costs too along with F-16IN. UAE paid $100million for each of their Block 60s. The F-16IN will have it's own DAS and other EW equipment. Costs will be higher. PAF paid $80Million each for Block 52s.

The capabilities of the EF exceeds all MRCA candidates including the SH. This is one aircraft which will continue showing relevance alongside the F-22, J-20 and PAKFA.

 

[pankaj nema]

They should really declare the winner soon
This endless wait has become quite boring and tedious

 

[asianobserve]

(self-delete)

 

[arundo]

The capabilities of the EF exceeds all MRCA candidates including the SH. This is one aircraft which will continue showing relevance alongside the F-22, J-20 and PAKFA.

Well, there is a long way to go for EF until it becomes a real omnirole aircraft (according to British National Audit Office at least until 2018...). Furthermore, the EF project is not sure to be continued after 2017 for financial reasons, if there is no big export success.
In my opinion the Rafale has at least the potential of the EF and more capabilities so far. Of course there are similar financial constraints.
It might be that the winner of the Indian competition gets a huge boost for the future, but I doubt that two European omnirole aircrafts with similar target markets and in the same budget can coexist for a very long time. I wonder what the French intend to do in the future (join the other countries or not), as some sources were already talking about a Rafale successor before 2030. The contribution of the Dassault/Snecma/Sagem/Thales Know how could be a benefit for future European projects.

 

[agentperry]

Well, there is a long way to go for EF until it becomes a real omnirole aircraft (according to British National Audit Office at least until 2018...). Furthermore, the EF project is not sure to be continued after 2017 for financial reasons, if there is no big export success.
In my opinion the Rafale has at least the potential of the EF and more capabilities so far. Of course there are similar financial constraints.
It might be that the winner of the Indian competition gets a huge boost for the future, but I doubt that two European omnirole aircrafts with similar target markets and in the same budget can coexist for a very long time. I wonder what the French intend to do in the future (join the other countries or not), as some sources were already talking about a Rafale successor before 2030. The contribution of the Dassault/Snecma/Sagem/Thales Know how could be a benefit for future European projects.

i told this to people long back that ef is not multi role-fully but was manhandled

 

[p2prada]

Well, there is a long way to go for EF until it becomes a real omnirole aircraft (according to British National Audit Office at least until 2018...). Furthermore, the EF project is not sure to be continued after 2017 for financial reasons, if there is no big export success.
In my opinion the Rafale has at least the potential of the EF and more capabilities so far. Of course there are similar financial constraints.
It might be that the winner of the Indian competition gets a huge boost for the future, but I doubt that two European omnirole aircrafts with similar target markets and in the same budget can coexist for a very long time. I wonder what the French intend to do in the future (join the other countries or not), as some sources were already talking about a Rafale successor before 2030. The contribution of the Dassault/Snecma/Sagem/Thales Know how could be a benefit for future European projects.

There is no doubt at all that the EF is behind the Rafale in the development curve. However there is little doubt on which is the better air superiority fighter. EF was always built keeping Air superiority in mind while Rafale took the more balanced approach.

There is no doubt that when it comes to maturity of systems, the Rafale is ahead of the EF-2000. What the Rafale will be in 2013, the EF will be in 2018.

The level of strike capability that the Rafale possesses is probably unmatched, with the exception of the SH, in a multirole fighter. However the EF, with what it can do today is quite good enough for strike role. It is better than the Mirage-2000 that IAF possesses and also a match for the MKI in terms of technology. The lack of an active ECM suite is a major problem for the EF.

I have always advocated induction of Rafale. However I don't mind EF either. Both are excellent. EF isn't omnirole in the strictest sense, but it's strike capability matches the late version Mirage-2000 in terms of technology and that is perhaps sufficient if you assume the EF was chosen because it matches or exceeds IAF's RFP and hence the reason for it's down select.

i told this to people long back that ef is not multi role-fully but was manhandled

Aren't you the one who said EF cannot role!!!

 

[agentperry]

There is no doubt at all that the EF is behind the Rafale in the development curve. However there is little doubt on which is the better air superiority fighter. EF was always built keeping Air superiority in mind while Rafale took the more balanced approach.

There is no doubt that when it comes to maturity of systems, the Rafale is ahead of the EF-2000. What the Rafale will be in 2013, the EF will be in 2018.

The level of strike capability that the Rafale possesses is probably unmatched, with the exception of the SH, in a multirole fighter. However the EF, with what it can do today is quite good enough for strike role. It is better than the Mirage-2000 that IAF possesses and also a match for the MKI in terms of technology. The lack of an active ECM suite is a major problem for the EF.

I have always advocated induction of Rafale. However I don't mind EF either. Both are excellent. EF isn't omnirole in the strictest sense, but it's strike capability matches the late version Mirage-2000 in terms of technology and that is perhaps sufficient if you assume the EF was chosen because it matches or exceeds IAF's RFP and hence the reason for it's down select.



Aren't you the one who said EF cannot role!!!

yes. im the one who said so and i still says so

 

[p2prada]

LOL. Ok! Cheers.

Edit: BTW, EF does 250 deg/sec at probably 400-500Knots. Tell your source he is wrong.

 

[JayATL]

So you guys are still fighting over which is a better aircraft... where most are going...will any make it? Can someone tell me , what was the deadline for the selection process i.e. there was a hard stop on the date -when the bids would become invalid? ... it was mentioned in some article... but I forgot.

 

[Galaxy]

Christmas gift? : North News - India Today

 

[agentperry]

LOL. Ok! Cheers.

Edit: BTW, EF does 250 deg/sec at probably 400-500Knots. Tell your source he is wrong.

its official lockheed martin release selectively circulated to its staffers and other stakeholders

 

[p2prada]

its official lockheed martin release selectively circulated to its staffers and other stakeholders

They missed all the air shows then. No probs. We will agree to disagree.

 

[agentperry]

its december 19 2011.

 

[utubekhiladi]

stop moaning over this

rafale has already won....


source:classified

 

[utubekhiladi]

-self delete-

 

[tony4562]

By choosing either of the euro-birds India will end up in a very difficult situation, financially. Those 126 birds will cost around 20 billion dollars to buy, but their life-long cost (assuming 30 years) will triple that to around 60 billion dollars, in other words 2 billion dollars each year. This might not sound that much, but considering the fact that the airforce gets no more than 1/3 of the defence budget, and that under normal circumstances only half of the allocated moeny goes towards hardware purchases and maintainance, 2 billion a year for a single program is quite a lot.

 

[p2prada]

stop moaning over this

rafale has already won....


source:classified

Yeah. They should just pick the Rafale and get it over with. I don't like that "canceled" talks.

 

[trackwhack]

Our defense budget will be 120 billion by 2015. If 1/3rd goes to the Airforce, thats still 40 billion. Of course 2 billion can be spent on the program. By 2020, we are talking of a 180 billion dollar defense spending. Go figure.