India opens bids in $10.4-bn combat plane tender.

The final call! Show your support. Who do you think should Win?

  • Eurofighter Typhoon

    Votes: 66 51.2%
  • Dassault Rafale

    Votes: 63 48.8%

  • Total voters
    129
Status
Not open for further replies.

Galaxy

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
7,086
Likes
3,934
Country flag
Offer of Nato Missile Defence and US F-35 Jets

30-November, 2011 15:08 IST

The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) has not invited India to become a partner in its missile defence programme. The US has not offered India a partnership in the development of the world's most advanced fighter plane, F-35 joint strike fighter.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in separate written replies to Shri A. Elavarasan and Shri Kalraj Mishra in Rajya Sabha today.
 

Defcon 1

New Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Messages
2,195
Likes
1,842
Country flag
I see...so then, any leaks on evaluations and how your guys liked the planes?
i read a report which said eurofighter was closing in on MRCA deal.....that was before the US and russian aircrafts were eliminated, long time back, nothing after that though...
 

mayfair

New Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
6,032
Likes
13,110
Apparently the Swiss have opted for Gripen NG ahead of both Rafale and Typhoon.

Will this make the two MRCA contenders more desperate and determined to succeed in India? Hopefully we use this leverage fully to steer any agreements firmly in our favour.
 

Cola

New Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2011
Messages
40
Likes
3
@Defcon 1,

It's hard to come by any info here (Europe), so I thought maybe there was something in local papers, or TV that outsiders don't have access to.

Thx, anyway.
 

SHASH2K2

New Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
5,711
Likes
730
@Defcon 1,

It's hard to come by any info here (Europe), so I thought maybe there was something in local papers, or TV that outsiders don't have access to.

Thx, anyway.
These deals are so sensitive that any leak in public domain will create a lot of problem any leak in favour of one player will force other to go on the offensive. its better that its wrapped in secrecy till winner is declared to avoid unnecessary interventions from parties involved. Rafale has advantage in terms of pricing while EFT in terms of TOT . May the best plane win.
 

Galaxy

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
7,086
Likes
3,934
Country flag
Switzerland, Armasuisse officialy ranks the Rafale first


Wednesday, November 30, 2011

A few days before switzerland makes its final choice, the main operational results of the Armasuisse evaluation have been released.

Armasuisse made a first evaluation of the Gripen, Rafale and Eurofighter in 2008. Several Air to Air and Air to Ground trials were performed by the 3 contenders, in Switzerland, in order to assess their relative efficiency in different roles.

A second Evaluation was done between March and August 2009 to take into account the upgrades and improvements of the 3 fighters in their "2015 form". This evaluation was based on data provided by the manufacturers or simulated flights. This final

Armasuisse report, with updated rankings was released in November 2009 and is recommending the Rafale for the Swiss Air Force (confirming the rumors heard during the last 2 years).

In this report, each capability is ranked on 9 points, 6 points being the minimum score to meet the Swiss Air Force requirement (We understand that te 6 points benchmark would be the F/A-18C score)



Basler Zeitung has published the scores for 2 main mission types (see above) : Air defense and Ground attack mission. The green scores refers to the 2008 evalaluation while the red scores refers to the final 2009 evaluation including 2015 improvements.

-->The Rafale is ranked first with 7.28 and 7.41 points,
-->The Eurofighter second with 6.49 and 6.54 points,
-->The Gripen is third with 5.68 and 5.62 points. Therefore it does not manage to pass the threshold of 6 points.

Various quotes from the report :

"Rafale and Eurofighter showed generally better performance than the F/A-18, Gripen worse"

"The performance of the Gripen in air-air engagements as well as attack missions was insufficient"

"The most limiting factors of the Gripen design were the operating time, the flight performance and the maximum weapon load"

"The Rafale is the only aircraft that has met the requirements of the Air Force in all types of applications"

So the report is quite clear regarding the capabilities of the 3 aircrafts:

1- The Rafale is the best technical performer and thus recommended as the Tiger replacement.
2- The Rafale was ranked above the Eurofighter in both Air defense and ground attack missions.
3- The Gripen has serious weaknesses and is considered as a step back compared to the F/A-18 operated by the Swiss Air Force.

Rafale News: Switzerland, Armasuisse officialy ranks the Rafale first
 

Galaxy

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
7,086
Likes
3,934
Country flag
Switzerland Buys Gripen NG Over Rafale, Typhoon


11/30/2011

Switzerland has opted to acquire 22 Saab JAS-39E/F Gripen NGs in its long-running F-5 Tiger replacement program, says Swiss defense minister Ueli Maurer.

Gripen beat out the Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon -- Boeing withdrew the F/A-18E/F early from the competition.

The arrangement is a big setback for Dassault, which was hoping to finally secure its first export deal for Rafale. Eurofighter also was hoping to convince Switzerland to join the family, since Italy, Austria and Germany already fly the aircraft.

Switzerland also examined an F-5 extension, but that was deemed too expensive.

All three main contenders met the requirements put forward by the services. But the Gripen had several advantages, Maurer says, including price, which leaves money for other military needs.

The Gripen had both the lowest acquisition costs and lower 30 year life cycle cost, by far, says Maurer. The procurement program is likely to cost less than 3 billion Swiss francs.

Moreover, Switzerland liked the potential for industrial cooperation on offer from Saab.

Maurer acknowledges the Swedish fighter may not be the highest end technical option on offer, but he says it is a good fit for Switzerland and technically meets the country's needs.

Switzerland and Sweden will now refine the program in the coming months.

All three bidders provided good offset packages that were essentially equivalent. The industrial participation package was also attractive across the board, the Swiss say.

Here is Dassault's reaction:

The team RAFALE has duly noted the choice of the Swiss Authorities regarding the acquisition of their future fighter aircraft. The team regrets that the Swiss Federal Council - as it has officially stated - has "knowingly decided not to position Switzerland at the highest European level as regards the performance of the new fighter aircraft".

The RAFALE's capacities would enable the Swiss Confederation to meet its operational requirements with a smaller number of aircraft at an equivalent or lower cost, as was demonstrated during the assessments by the Swiss Air Force.

The "Swiss-tailored" GRIPEN only exists on paper. Its technical development and production risk significantly increasing the financial efforts required of the Swiss Authorities to accomplish the country's fighter aircraft program.

RAFALE INTERNATIONAL extends its sincere thanks the 250 Swiss companies that took part in its industrial partnership project in the 26 cantons of the Swiss Confederation.

"‹Switzerland Buys Gripen NG Over Rafale, Typhoon
 

weg

New Member
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
203
Likes
37
Switzerland, Armasuisse officialy ranks the Rafale first
It was supposed to be much cheaper than the EF. Except ... it isn't

Rafale, the 'best' aircraft that nobody wants. Why is this? oh yes

The Numbers and Chart are FAKE.
The Blog has simply fabricated the quotes and numbers. The linked articles states that the Grippen scored badly,thats all/


"knowingly decided not to position Switzerland at the highest European level as regards the performance of the new fighter aircraft".
Maybe so. But why would then need anything more than a basic interceptor for civilian aircraft, they haven't been to war for 500 years and won't for the next 500, either
 
Last edited:

ace009

Freakin' Fighter fan
New Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
1,662
Likes
526
Switzerland Buys Gripen NG Over Rafale, Typhoon


11/30/2011

Switzerland has opted to acquire 22 Saab JAS-39E/F Gripen NGs in its long-running F-5 Tiger replacement program, says Swiss defense minister Ueli Maurer.

Gripen beat out the Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon -- Boeing withdrew the F/A-18E/F early from the competition.

The arrangement is a big setback for Dassault, which was hoping to finally secure its first export deal for Rafale. Eurofighter also was hoping to convince Switzerland to join the family, since Italy, Austria and Germany already fly the aircraft.

Switzerland also examined an F-5 extension, but that was deemed too expensive.

All three main contenders met the requirements put forward by the services. But the Gripen had several advantages, Maurer says, including price, which leaves money for other military needs.

The Gripen had both the lowest acquisition costs and lower 30 year life cycle cost, by far, says Maurer. The procurement program is likely to cost less than 3 billion Swiss francs.

Moreover, Switzerland liked the potential for industrial cooperation on offer from Saab.

Maurer acknowledges the Swedish fighter may not be the highest end technical option on offer, but he says it is a good fit for Switzerland and technically meets the country's needs.

Switzerland and Sweden will now refine the program in the coming months.

All three bidders provided good offset packages that were essentially equivalent. The industrial participation package was also attractive across the board, the Swiss say.

Here is Dassault's reaction:

The team RAFALE has duly noted the choice of the Swiss Authorities regarding the acquisition of their future fighter aircraft. The team regrets that the Swiss Federal Council - as it has officially stated - has "knowingly decided not to position Switzerland at the highest European level as regards the performance of the new fighter aircraft".

The RAFALE's capacities would enable the Swiss Confederation to meet its operational requirements with a smaller number of aircraft at an equivalent or lower cost, as was demonstrated during the assessments by the Swiss Air Force.

The "Swiss-tailored" GRIPEN only exists on paper. Its technical development and production risk significantly increasing the financial efforts required of the Swiss Authorities to accomplish the country's fighter aircraft program.

RAFALE INTERNATIONAL extends its sincere thanks the 250 Swiss companies that took part in its industrial partnership project in the 26 cantons of the Swiss Confederation.

"‹Switzerland Buys Gripen NG Over Rafale, Typhoon
So let me get this straight - after evaluating 4 different aircraft (EF, Rafale, F/A-18 and Gripen) and finding that the Gripen is the worst performer of the four, the Swiss decided to still go buy the Gripen, because of PRICE?? Really? Why bother evaluating then? Why not just go ahead and buy the cheapest? For that matter why the Gripen? If they are looking for a "civilian interceptor", then go for something cheaper - the JF-17 maybe? The cheaper Korean knockoffs of the F-16? Hell, even the older versions of ANY european fighter will work - they can try buying it second hand!
 

weg

New Member
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
203
Likes
37
So let me get this straight - after evaluating 4 different aircraft (EF, Rafale, F/A-18 and Gripen) and finding that the Gripen is the worst performer of the four, the Swiss decided to still go buy the Gripen, because of PRICE?? Really? Why bother evaluating then? Why not just go ahead and buy the cheapest? For that matter why the Gripen? If they are looking for a "civilian interceptor", then go for something cheaper - the JF-17 maybe? The cheaper Korean knockoffs of the F-16? Hell, even the older versions of ANY european fighter will work - they can try buying it second hand!
No, those charts are wrong, someone faked them, probably the French.

Piloten wollen Gripen abschiessen - Schweiz: Standard - bazonline.ch

The Swiss choose the Gripen because it was better than the baseline requirement and the cheapest. It didn't need to be the best, just good enough. The Swizz airforce only operates 9-5 during weekdays, they are not a country who is ever going to war.
 

Zebra

New Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
6,060
Likes
2,303
Country flag
No, those charts are wrong, someone faked them, probably the French.

Piloten wollen Gripen abschiessen - Schweiz: Standard - bazonline.ch

The Swiss choose the Gripen because it was better than the baseline requirement and the cheapest. It didn't need to be the best, just good enough. The Swizz airforce only operates 9-5 during weekdays, they are not a country who is ever going to war.
So can you please tell something , what did they said in the article ? I do not know the language . :confused:
 

jouy31

New Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
16
Likes
29
Country flag
No, those charts are wrong, someone faked them, probably the French.
Can you substantiate your claims about "the French" faking the charts or otherwise refrain from broad generalizations about nationalities?
 

trackwhack

New Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
3,757
Likes
2,590
cant wait. hope they pick the rafale. I think its the better plane. Im not too concerned about how much tech transfer.
also i trust the french more than any of the other Europeans. And dealing with 5 governments will always be more difficult than dealing with one.
 

SpArK

SORCERER
New Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2010
Messages
2,093
Likes
1,112
General Fernand Carrel, former Chief of Staff of the Swiss Air Force, do not make a mistake, " all the experts know that the Rafale is the best , "he said recently. In 2008 and 2009, this aircraft had thus been evaluated by the Helvetii, who had to acquire it. With a score above 7, the Rafale was largely replaced its two competitors Eurofighter (rated 6.3) and Gripen (rated 5.3). Still, Bern has just visited the owner of 22 Gripen fighters, manufactured by the Swedish Saab.

When Switzerland decided, it has done for reasons of cost, at the expense of quality

In fact, the 22 Swedish Gripen has cost 2.58 billion euros to the Helvetic Confederation, which is much cheaper than if she had chosen the Rafale. It is true that the Saab aircraft technology is less careful. In addition, Gripen does not sell in euros but in Swedish kronor. Yes, consulted by referendum in 2003, the Swedes have overwhelmingly refused to enter the eurozone and retained their crown, a currency cheaper than the euro



Les mirages du Rafale cher | Causeur
 

plugwater

New Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
4,154
Likes
1,082
How you all know tomo is the day ?

Decision will come only by mid December.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Articles

Top