India opens bids in $10.4-bn combat plane tender.

[JBH22]

there will be no other fighters, there will be Indian's MCA. Now the money is the problem, India is luck that China is the target of USA, India is the loving baby of the world, so the fighter jet is not a must have for the time being, the wise move is to develop the indigenous jet,MCA, by using this fund, this will develop the industries very much, if buy jet fighter, will be a great loss. So you can see, there will be no European jet fighters for IAF

Prove this??

 

[p2prada]

there will be no other fighters, there will be Indian's MCA. Now the money is the problem, India is luck that China is the target of USA, India is the loving baby of the world, so the fighter jet is not a must have for the time being, the wise move is to develop the indigenous jet,MCA, by using this fund, this will develop the industries very much, if buy jet fighter, will be a great loss. So you can see, there will be no European jet fighters for IAF

Did you know that for over 50 years we were actually an enemy of the US.

BTW, US was even closer to China in the 70s and 80s than US is closer to India today.

US became your "enemy" only in 1989 after the Tiananmen Square Massacre.

 

[Virendra]

Well if people hate you, you tend to think everyone is loved much by everyone else
India is no love baby .. it is of course is the parent of many

Regards,
Virendra

 

[ace009]

there will be no other fighters, there will be Indian's MCA. Now the money is the problem, India is luck that China is the target of USA, India is the loving baby of the world, so the fighter jet is not a must have for the time being, the wise move is to develop the indigenous jet,MCA, by using this fund, this will develop the industries very much, if buy jet fighter, will be a great loss. So you can see, there will be no European jet fighters for IAF

Is your English really bad or are you one of those "I not speak english" chinese?

Anyway, "India is luck(y) (that) China is the target of USA" - where did you get that piece of gem?
USA is selling weapons to South Korea and Japan, Phillipines and Taiwan in China's immediate neighborhood for 60+ years - USA even sold some technology to China during cold war (mid 1960 to mid 1980s). Before 2005, last time USA sold anything to India was 1960.

As for European Jets flying for IAF - there are already three of them in IAF stable - Jaguar, Mirage 2000 and BAE Hawk. Rafale or EF will be just the fourth.

 

[Cola]

not known anything about india but the recent storm in UAE suggests that Rafale may be completely blown away.....my money is on eurofighter for now....

I see...so then, any leaks on evaluations and how your guys liked the planes?

 

[DMF]

Did you know that for over 50 years we were actually an enemy of the US.

BTW, US was even closer to China in the 70s and 80s than US is closer to India today.

US became your "enemy" only in 1989 after the Tiananmen Square Massacre.

In the cold war era, India was a friend of the great Soviet, that's why USA not your friend. China normalized relationship with USA after 1975, but became a friend after 1979. Since the collapse of Soviet coupled with the Tiananmen Square incident, China becomes the enemy No. 1 of the USA.
But if India not strike China, there will be no war between us, this is for sure, your leaders understand this, Paki can not attack you for sure. As for the European jet fighter, cost too much. Now the new generation of jet is developed by some countries, India has the time, should develop the LCA and same time develop it's own new jet, not buy, if buy, the money lost, use this amount of money, you can develop the industry, this is the most important matter for a country as big as India. It was said that the Russia repair the old carrier for India, they got the profit enough to buy from France a very big vessel- an amphibious assault vessel.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[DMF]

Is your English really bad or are you one of those "I not speak english" chinese?

Anyway, "India is luck(y) (that) China is the target of USA" - where did you get that piece of gem?
USA is selling weapons to South Korea and Japan, Phillipines and Taiwan in China's immediate neighborhood for 60+ years - USA even sold some technology to China during cold war (mid 1960 to mid 1980s). Before 2005, last time USA sold anything to India was 1960.

As for European Jets flying for IAF - there are already three of them in IAF stable - Jaguar, Mirage 2000 and BAE Hawk. Rafale or EF will be just the fourth.

Thank a lot for correcting my English.
Yes you have European jet flying for many years, but I think not need new ones. Your government is not in a hurry to buy the expensive Euro jets. A waste of money and not a good choice. But to make some folks happy, pretend to invite a biding, but the decision will never come. This is the cleaver way to play. Now the rupee in down, and who knows when the Euro jet can make the delivery? Maybe when you received them, find out that time many more advanced jet are flying.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Heads of Rafale International's sales team abroad:

India: Director fo India is Richard Lavaux. Richard Lavaux seems to have strong references (HEC...) but it is interesting to note that he's in charge only since July 2011, afaik , he replaced Posina V Rao the Indian manager who had been blacklisted by the IAF at AeroIndia 2011.
http://www.associationhec.com/nomina...=no0dTjIMMkT46
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/03...h-blow-to.html

 

[Kunal Biswas]

AERO INDIA: MBDA, Rafael go head-to-head for air force weapon deals

...The air force is also to choose between rival systems as part of an upgrade package for its Dassault Mirage 2000s. MBDA and Sagem are offering the latter's AASM bomb guidance kit, while Rafael is promoting its 2,000lb (907kg) Spice 2000 design. "We hope that this year will be a year for a decision," says Rafael air-to-surface systems director Yuval Miller.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aero-india-mbda-rafael-go-head-to-head-for-air-force-weapon-deals-352948/

 

[Kunal Biswas]

About SPECTRA and SEAD missions in Libya

Such was the confidence of the
French aircrews in their new
mount that all missions were
conducted without any support
from dedicated electronic warfare
and SEAD (Suppression of Enemy
Air Defences) assets: thanks to its
Spectra state-of-the-art electronic
warfare/self-defence suite, the
Rafale was able to operate at
will in a dangerous environment,
against a dense network of deadly
surface-to-air missile systems.
Even more significant is the fact
that the Rafale was able to accurately
locate enemy air-defence
systems and engage them."


"Such is the quality of the Spectra
electronic warfare suite that the
Rafale literally disappeared from
the radar screens of the Libyan Air
Force while performing 'soft kills' on
the enemy radar systems. Spectra
relies on advanced jamming modes
and jamming techniques to defeat
hostile weapon systems and to
hide the progression and whereabouts
of the fighter."

 

[utubekhiladi]

Thank a lot for correcting my English.
Yes you have European jet flying for many years

what are you talking about?

A waste of money and not a good choice.

when we need your advise on what we should do, we will ask for it.

But to make some folks happy, pretend to invite a biding, but the decision will never come. This is the cleaver way to play.

when we announce the decision in about 3 weeks from now, i will personally email you and i would love to see your sorry face.

who knows when the Euro jet can make the delivery?

so you already decided that European fighter is the winner? eh?

who knows when the Euro jet can make the delivery? Maybe when you received them, find out that time many more advanced jet are flying.

we will have our first batch of rafale or typhoon in or around 2014.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

No political considerations in awarding aircraft deals: AK Antony
The Economic Times , Nov 11
​

NEW DELHI: Defence Minister A K Antony today made it clear that there will be "no political considerations" in awarding the multi-billion dollar 126 combat aircraft deal which entered its last phase with the opening of commercial bids of two bidders.

Two companies including European Eurofighter and French Dassault Rafale are now left in the medium multi-role combat aircraft (M-MRCA) tender and their commercial bids were opened on November 4 by the Ministry.

"There will be no political considerations in defence procurement and that is our stand which everybody knows," he told reporters here.
The Minister was asked if the Defence Ministry would take into account geo-political considerations before deciding on the winner of the mega deal.
Antony said as far as his Ministry was concerned, "defence procurement is strictly professional and (based on) price. Technical evaluation is 101 per cent professional and then after that comes the price."

The Eurofighter Typhoon combat aircraft bid is backed by four partner nations including Germany, Italy, the UK and Spain whereas the Rafale bid is backed by the French government.

In April, the Defence Ministry had shortlisted the two aircraft while four companies including American Lockheed Martin and Boeing, Russian MiG 35 and Swedish Saab were rejected.

After the opening of commercial bids, the Defence Ministry is now busy with the process of determining the Life Cycle Cost (LCC) of the two aircraft to determine the lowest bidder, which will be offered the contract

From:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/10690840.cms

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Fighter bid like no other
- European rivals sit at long table as offers are read out
Telegraph India, Nov 13
​

[...]

The IAF has sought financial quotes in eight categories, called M1 to M8. M1 is the "unit flyaway cost", the price of each of the first 18 aircraft to be purchased "off the shelf".

M2 asks for the lifecycle costs – the price of running the equipment over their lifespan of 6,000 hours – of the different components that make up the aircraft (engines, airframe, weapons pods).

M3 is "operational cost". M4 asks for the lifecycle costs of spares, fuel usage, a "mean time between failures" (MTBF), and lubricants.

M5 and M6 are the estimated costs of overhaul and mid-life upgrade. M7 is the cost of the technology that the maker will transfer to Hindustan Aeronautics that will set up the assembly line were the Typhoon or the Rafale would be made under licence. M8 is the computation of total costs.

The formula for computing the costs has an escalation cost, net present value and discounted cash flow built into it, a financial expert said.

Air force officers, however, worry that formulae have a way of getting disrupted in the acquisition process because they get complicated by the pressures of diplomacy and/or under-the-table processes. On the other hand, they also say that if India were to award such a huge deal to a country or a collection of countries, it would be foolish to not extract diplomatic and political mileage out of the deal. Compounding all of this is the IAF's dire necessity for the aircraft as it stretches its assets – such as the outdated MiG 21 that make up a bulk of its inventory -- well beyond their prescribed lifespan.

Eurofighter's chief executive officer Bernhardt Gerwert is on record as having said that the four countries that make up the EADS consortium – Germany, the UK, Spain and Italy – had "offered to make India a partner country" with an assurance of steady equation with the four top west European countries.

France's President, Nicolas Sarkozy, pushing Dassault's bid with the Rafale, has extended repeated invitations to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh – who was in Paris for the G20 last week -- and had hosted India as the chief guest at the Bastille Day celebrations, a signal moment for the Indian armed forces when they marched down the Champs-Elysees at the head of the parade.

France is also banking on traditional relations – it supplied the frontline Mirage 2000 aircraft – with the IAF.

In Vayu Sena Bhavan where the airforce wants to insulate itself from the politics of handing out an estimated $20 billion, the search for that precise formula is still on

From:
http://www.telegraphindia.com/111111...y_14743848.jsp



Originally work of Olybrius at MP.net..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Europe versus France contest begins for world's biggest combat aircraft deal
Times of India , Nov 5
​

Now, battle-lines for the Europe versus France contest, after elimination of US and Russia in earlier rounds, have been clearly drawn. India on Friday opened the financial bids of the two fighters left in the fray for the world's biggest combat aircraft deal, but promptly declared it would take at least two-three weeks to declare the eventual winner since tons of data had to be computed.

For all its promises of "full transparency" in the medium multi-role combat aircraft ( MMRCA) contract to acquire 126 fighters, likely to be the single biggest defence deal in the run-up to the 2014 polls with its overall value set to exceed $20 billion, the defence ministry refused to say anything concrete.

Sources, however, said the "unit flyaway cost" or "direct acquisition cost" of each Eurofighter Typhoon was "higher" than the French Rafale fighter, both of which fall in the $80-$110 million bracket, much costlier than the American, Russian and Swedish jets earlier eliminated after exhaustive technical evaluation by IAF pilots.

But the unit flyaway cost will not be the only factor to determine the lowest bidder (L-1). The MoD will also take into account "life-cycle costs" or the cost of operating the fighters over a 40-year period, with 6,000 hours of flying.

Besides, there are costs of the transfer of technology (ToT) since the first 18 jets will be bought from abroad in a flyaway condition, while the rest 108 will be manufactured in India, under licence, by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.

"The bids were opened today in front of the Indian contract negotiating committee, comprising MoD, IAF, finance, production and quality assurance officials, as well as representatives from French Dassault and EADS (backed by UK, Germany, Spain and Italy). It will take a few weeks to examine and evaluate their commercial proposals to arrive at a verifiable cost model to determine the L-1," said an official.

IAF wants the actual contract to be inked by January-February to ensure the delivery of first 18 jets begins by early-2015 to stem its fast-eroding combat edge, with HAL beginning the manufacturing of the rest 108 from early-2017 onwards. "The first jet built by HAL should roll out in early-2017," said an official.

India is also likely to go in for another 63 fighters after the first 126, if the timelines for the under-development Tejas LCA (light combat aircraft) and the stealth Indo-Russian FGFA (fifth-generation fighter aircraft) projects are not met.

From:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/E...w/10613429.cms

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Rafale and Eurofighter side by side in India
La Tribune , Nov 6
​

Commercial offerings of both companies would be very close to each other.

Manufacturers of both fighters still competing to equip the 126 aircraft the Indian Air Force (Air Force), Rafale ( Dassault Aviation ) and Eurofighter ( EADS , BAE Systems and Italy's Finmeccanica), are engaged in a big commercial battle to reign in the Indian skies. According to several sources, the offers of Dassault Aviation and the European consortium would be very close to each other. What is already a big surprise, the Rafale was generally much cheaper (10% to 15% on average) than the Eurofighter in previous tenders in which they were competing one against the other.

The three industrial partners in the Eurofighter program would therefore have made great efforts on the price of the unit to stay competitive with the Rafale [...]. "They have accepted monstrous sacrifices," says one industrialist. "The two manufacturers will see much clearer at the end of the week after a week of work and comparison of the bids," said another industrialist interviewed by "La Tribune" (see below) . However, even if the commercial offerings are really close, the Rafale keep an advantage operationally and technically. Trials of the Indian Air Force placed (it) ahead of Eurofighter.

Colossal challenge

Another trend that seems to emerge is that both offers are superior to the original budget agreed by New Delhi, estimated at $ 11 billion (8 billion euros). According to the Indian press, quoting an anonymous government officials, the Ministry of Defence would have almost doubled it to about $ 20 billion (14.5 billion euros), in particualr to take into account related contracts to support the aircrafts.

Google translated from:
http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-...e-en-inde.html

[URL="http://www.telegraphindia.com/1111113/jsp/frontpage/story_14743848.jsp"]Originally work of Olybrius at MP.net..

[/URL]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Dassault Rafale "Michaël Brocard" Solo Display Sion Airshow 2011

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[DMF]

what are you talking about?



when we need your advise on what we should do, we will ask for it.



when we announce the decision in about 3 weeks from now, i will personally email you and i would love to see your sorry face.



so you already decided that European fighter is the winner? eh?



we will have our first batch of rafale or typhoon in or around 2014.

Here is just a fun forum, nothing serious here, only some wet dreams and brags, what I pissed here are not advices what India should do.
If you can get the batch of Rafale or Typhoon, I offer you lot of congratulations. But in my opinion, India will benefit very few from this deal, the real winner is the manufacturer of the jets. India is big country, when India established in the 1940's, India was regarded as one of the two industrial countries in Asia, but now India still need to import fighter airplanes. China was luck because there are sanctions on the head, China has to make things by herself, understand if you depend on somebody else, you are sucked. When China begin to buy the SU27, also have a TOT, but China only import about 100 kits of the aircrafts, then canceled the remaining undelivered about 100pcs SU27, begin to make J11 jets, now China can make this kind of Sukhoi jets according needs. It not easy, face lot of problems, but if you work hard enough you will get it.