India opens bids in $10.4-bn combat plane tender.

[ace009]

Also, just because Dassault lost the MMRCA bid, they can still get the N-MMRCA - which at ~100 fighters will be almost as big too ...

EF does not have a naval version - so the M-Rafale stands a good chance for N-MMRCA.

 

[Armand2REP]

Rafale has hardly lost in UAE. They are issuing RFIs to force us to reduce price. There is more tied to it than just Rafale. There are satellite deals along with airliners, airoutes and corvettes. They aren't dealing with anyone but France yet. They know they have us by the balls so they will squeeze until they get what they want.

 

[sukhish]

Also, just because Dassault lost the MMRCA bid, they can still get the N-MMRCA - which at ~100 fighters will be almost as big too ...

EF does not have a naval version - so the M-Rafale stands a good chance for N-MMRCA.

India is going to the key. Who ever wins India, will orders from lot's of other countries. That's it is imperative for raffle to offer the best tot . This is all about tot and partnership now. Technically both are equal at this stage.

 

[nitesh]

How French are able to screw up the things, they are almost as pricey as EF, they should have lapped up the contract by now, on the brighter side, it seems EF has learned there lesson in LCA engine deal

Major Fighter Competition Decisions Imminent | AVIATION WEEK

 

[Yusuf]

P2P, private industry should be salivating.

 

[p2prada]

P2P, private industry should be salivating.

Yup. This would kick start small enterprises along with filling order books for big industries. The MKI helped and MRCA will help the private industry even more.

 

[Rohan Sharma]

Nope. A2A.

Well yes we do need A2g combat Fighter .As we got sukhoi30mki as an air superiority.
But sukhoi being loaded with brahmos with a range of 290 km and another 460 km range brahmos in pipeline that will be delivered by 2016-2017.We have sukhoi as lethal in both scenario. But still IAF needs something with a attacking capability but both typhoon and raphale are airsuperiority fighters.
Both are good but the raphale scores on cost and typhoon with its deep penetrating range. raphale is a attacking combat craft with bigger radius of combat on the other line typhoon scores on its agility and speed and tech advantage.
And with tot And EURO shifting base to India we can go for joint production of newgen fighter crafts with Euro consortium giving tech knowhow to HAL and a little competition too.
But seems HAL doesn't care much lolz

Typhoon but its really late by 20 years and we should go for 60 planes directly from them and remaining by hal and that too within 2018 timeframe don't waste time.

Also no need to go for more su-30mki as 50pakfa will be here by 2018 and we can have more in case fgfa T-50 doesn't comes out by 2020.

 

[weg]

How French are able to screw up the things, they are almost as pricey as EF, they should have lapped up the contract by now, on the brighter side, it seems EF has learned there lesson in LCA engine deal

Major Fighter Competition Decisions Imminent | AVIATION WEEK

"However, one government official notes that India's decision could still slip into 2012 because the two contenders' pricing is very similar, so the industrial participation package is being scrutinized."

Regardless of the French's claims, pricing is most directly affected by the volume of production. They haven't screwed up, they simply cannot compete.
EF consortium would have know of the Saudi and Oman deals which will considerably increase production and lower costs. On the Industrial side, Saudi is a money tree for aircraft producers - they pay up and the work will be shared around the consortium, as will maintenance for the fleet.

 

[Yusuf]

Yup. This would kick start small enterprises along with filling order books for big industries. The MKI helped and MRCA will help the private industry even more.

I want to be part of that pie. Give me ideas on what exactly i can put my hand in. some small components where i can make a killing.

 

[pankaj nema]

I want to be part of that pie. Give me ideas on what exactly i can put my hand in. some small components where i can make a killing.

Best of Luck Mate !!! :thumb:

However making a killing might be difficult as the components made under the offsets policy will have
very small margins

Hence you should quickly align with some big manufacturers

 

[pankaj nema]

The implementation of the new offsets policy will be watched very very keenly

The amount of investment, tech transfer , the number of new jobs created , the parts or components being supplied every thing would be watched with keen interest by financial investors like me

 

[p2prada]

I want to be part of that pie. Give me ideas on what exactly i can put my hand in. some small components where i can make a killing.

It depends on what your company does.

If you have an electronics industry it would be pretty good. Making all those military grade resistors and capacitors is not very difficult but expensive to set up.

If you make near spherical ball bearings then that's another option. I know that both these industries flourish in and around Bangalore and both need quite a lot of investment and contacts to work.

But I guess before you can sell your product to HAL you will need to have decent infrastructure already in place and also a few bags of cash for permits and other expenses. I don't know how all that works because they could change procedures every fortnight. Good contacts are required and I have a feeling you have them.

Man there's like a million different components which could be outsourced by HAL, right from the aircraft to the little crane that carries all the weapons. Mechanical, electrical, electronics and chemical fields are open. This is incredibly vast and it depends on what you can provide at competitive prices. If we get EF, maybe even the million plus tools manufacturing and servicing could be outsourced.

 

[SpArK]

Huh??? Really??

 

[mahesh]

I want to be part of that pie. Give me ideas on what exactly i can put my hand in. some small components where i can make a killing.

great yusuf bhai, i was having the same idea, when shipping industry is working over time, still not going to fulfill India's need. so i was wondering if i could mix up with any stage of this industry.

my friend in New Delhi, he wanted to have a small business, who's father owns a factory of making water purifying container (for pureit and other such.. ), so he, with the help of his family member who have connection with airport authority, struck a deal to supply "plane wheel stoppers"(under bench deal ). so with his father's factory, he asked the manager to come out with a combination of materials which are used to build containers, then bingo , he got the suitable mold and shape need for it. importantly, most of the information was provided by the concerned airport authority persons.

 

[SpArK]

 

[p2prada]

Huh??? Really??

Any 4.5 gen fighter with 5th gen electronics can combat a 5th gen fighter.

That's what is being planned with regards to the Super MKI as well. With the new 117S engine, the MKI will be a better beast than the EF when it comes to kinematics. But I guess there is a limit to how LO you can make a Flanker as compared to the EF. So, it wins in that department. Comparatively the Flanker has more juice.

The F-22 firepower is superior to both aircraft.

 

[ace009]

great yusuf bhai, i was having the same idea, when shipping industry is working over time, still not going to fulfill India's need. so i was wondering if i could mix up with any stage of this industry.

my friend in New Delhi, he wanted to have a small business, who's father owns a factory of making water purifying container (for pureit and other such.. ), so he, with the help of his family member who have connection with airport authority, struck a deal to supply "plane wheel stoppers"(under bench deal ). so with his father's factory, he asked the manager to come out with a combination of materials which are used to build containers, then bingo , he got the suitable mold and shape need for it. importantly, most of the information was provided by the concerned airport authority persons.

In that vein, Yusuf, you can try making and selling floor paints, door/ wall signs, reflectors etc for the MMRCA facilities.

 

[ace009]

Any 4.5 gen fighter with 5th gen electronics can combat a 5th gen fighter.

That's what is being planned with regards to the Super MKI as well. With the new 117S engine, the MKI will be a better beast than the EF when it comes to kinematics. But I guess there is a limit to how LO you can make a Flanker as compared to the EF. So, it wins in that department. Comparatively the Flanker has more juice.

The F-22 firepower is superior to both aircraft.

Why do you say that?

F-22 can carry -

In Stealth mode (internal weapons only)
Armament
Guns: 1× 20 mm (0.787 in) M61A2 Vulcan 6-barreled gatling cannon in starboard wing root, 480 rounds
Air to air loadout: (8 total)
6× AIM-120 AMRAAM
2× AIM-9 Sidewinder

Air to ground loadout:
2× AIM-120 AMRAAM and
2× AIM-9 Sidewinder for self-protection, and one of the following:
2× 1,000 lb (450 kg) JDAM or
8× 250 lb (110 kg) GBU-39 Small Diameter Bombs

And additionally in non-stealth mode - (4 more) - total of 12.
Hardpoints: 4× under-wing pylon stations can be fitted to carry 600 US gallon drop tanks or weapons, each with a capacity of 5,000 lb (2,268 kg).


The MKI can carry -

Guns: 1 × GSh-30-1 gun (30 mm caliber, 150 rounds)

12 hardpoints: 2 × wing-tip AAM launch rails, 6 × pylons under-wing, 2 × pylon under-engine nacelle, and 2 × pylons in tandem in the "arch" between the engines. It can be increased to 14 using multiple ejector racks. It can carry up to 8 tonnes of external stores.

A typical A2A loadout then will be 8 R-27/ R-77( or Astra) and 4 R-73s.
A typical A2G loadout will be 2 R-27/ R-77 and 2 R-73s with 8 ASMs/ lGBs, TGBs

The Eurofighter can carry -

Armament
Guns: 1 × 27 mm Mauser BK-27 Revolver cannon with 150 rounds
Hardpoints: Total of 13: 8 × under-wing; and 5 × under-fuselage pylon stations; holding up to 7,500 kg (16,500 lb) of payload.

The loadouts will be similar to the F-22 Raptor ...

I would say that the F-22 will be outgunned in the Stealth mode IF IT IS DETECTED by the other two. In the Non-stealth mode it will be a close fight.

source wikipedia

 

[nitesh]

Guys, previously there was discussion on the lines of splitting the order namely F 18 and ..... (fill in the blanks). With Europe under financial debts, does this scenario can be played by GoI. They can buy Rafale for SFC, can give them order of 40 required as of now with future options, and go to EF way for the MRCA. By initially keeping the numbers to 126. In this way we can drive hard bargain towards getting the techs we need.

PS: Just a thought that came to my mind.

 

[Koovie]

How long are those MoD folks working on one day??? How long does it take to calculate all costs I cant wait anymore.............