India-China Border conflict

[maximus777]

Just relax for now brother. This will all be over soon, they will all pay. They will pay for each and every martyrs life. Now is the time to bide our time and hide our strength, but this will all be avenged in the future.

No such guarantees going by Bharat's history. We have been shafted over and over for centuries, but there is no resurgence in sight. Why would it be any different this time?

 

[Kumaoni]

No such guarantees going by Bharat's history. We have been shafted over and over for centuries, but there is no resurgence in sight. Why would it be any different this time?

Because it will. Simple. It happened from 1962 to 1971. But this will be on a bigger scale.

 

[maximus777]

Because it will. Simple. It happened from 1962 to 1971. But this will be on a bigger scale.

I dont see it that way. We got our ass handed to us in 1962 barring a few heroic exceptions. 1971 was against jazba junoon boys - they dont even count as minnows at this point. Plus IG had the solid backing of a super power USSR in 1971 and in 2022 we have no such Godfather.

PRC of today is multitudes larger than what they were in the 60s/70s on any parameter - economy, military, global influence etc. We have a "koi nahi ghussa" peej praaij seeking vishwaguru as supreme leader. It's not looking very good.

 

[mokoman]

Both sides would've trashed the sweet boxes anyway.

we should keep the box , then give it to the Pakistanis at LOC border for their independence day .

then the box Pakistanis gives , we give to Chinese next year .

For anyone wondering, the location is Burtse, Depsang plains. It is near the Y-junction where the Chinese are squatting.

Coords - 35.1138041389085, 78.04194573571155

yaas i was wondering .

 

[Kumaoni]

I dont see it that way. We got our ass handed to us in 1962 barring a few heroic exceptions. 1971 was against jazba junoon boys - they dont even count as minnows at this point. Plus IG had the solid backing of a super power USSR in 1971 and in 2022 we have no such Godfather.

From getting routed in 8 days (they ran away from NEFA btw) to smashing Patton's three years later to smashing chinese in artillery duels two years later to splitting, at that time, USAs biggest proxy army and the world's most powerful Islamic army (at that time) is not good?

PRC of today is multitudes larger than what they were in the 60s/70s on any parameter - economy, military, global influence etc. We have a "koi nahi ghussa" peej praaij seeking vishwaguru as supreme leader. It's not looking very good.

What you currently have is a PM who understands India's power is willing to shut up and bide his time, until India becomes sufficient on its own to eradicate Mlecchas

 

[mokoman]

From getting routed in 8 days (they ran away from NEFA btw) to smashing Patton's three years later to smashing chinese in artillery duels two years later to splitting, at that time, USAs biggest proxy army and the world's most powerful Islamic army (at that time) is not good?

What you currently have is a PM who understands India's power is willing to shut up and bide his time, until India becomes sufficient on its own to eradicate Mlecchas

Chinese occupied Tawang for 2-3 months . we can thank the Himalayas . otherwise Tawang would be flying their retard red flag instead of tri-color .

 

[Kumaoni]

Chinese occupied Tawang for 2-3 months . we can thank the Himalayas . otherwise Tawang would be flying their retard red flag instead of tri-color .

They declared a ceasefire in 19 November itself.
On 19 November, it declared a unilateral cease-fire. Zhou Enlai declared a unilateral ceasefire to start on midnight, 21 November. Zhou's ceasefire declaration stated,

Beginning from 21 November 1962, the Chinese frontier guards will cease fire along the entire Sino-Indian border. Beginning from 1 December 1962, the Chinese frontier guards will withdraw to positions 20 kilometres (12 miles) behind the line of actual control which existed between China and India on 7 November 1959. In the eastern sector, although the Chinese frontier guards have so far been fighting on Chinese territory north of the traditional customary line, they are prepared to withdraw from their present positions to the north of the illegal McMahon Line, and to withdraw twenty kilometres (12 miles) back from that line. In the middle and western sectors, the Chinese frontier guards will withdraw twenty kilometres (12 miles) from the line of actual control.

They didnt occupy it and decide to leave midway, they decided to leave on 19 Nov itself. and this was before Nehru wrote to the US. So, they ran away from NEFA.

 

[jai jaganath]

I dont see it that way. We got our ass handed to us in 1962 barring a few heroic exceptions. 1971 was against jazba junoon boys - they dont even count as minnows at this point. Plus IG had the solid backing of a super power USSR in 1971 and in 2022 we have no such Godfather.

PRC of today is multitudes larger than what they were in the 60s/70s on any parameter - economy, military, global influence etc. We have a "koi nahi ghussa" peej praaij seeking vishwaguru as supreme leader. It's not looking very good.

One sec bro
Being most pessimistic person I shouldn't be saying this
But during 1962-1971 we were very aggressive wrt prc u could even think about 1967
Even during sunderji he had a lot of focus on Chinese and also prepared many strategies against them
If u ask about sunderji I can't prove as I have read and not researched
The period we were soft on them was from 1990 although pvnr had some focus on them too
But right now situation is different I truly feel that period has come that our aggressiveness will be more than 1962-1971
Yes due to sm or many other sources and especially BJP rule assertiveness will be much higher even our armed forces have got a big shock and atleast they can't forget it for next 30¹40 years
But equation changes if congress comes to power in future which is obviously certain as BJP won't be able to hold power for long as the ecosystem won't allow so congress could come in 2024 or 2029 or even worst case 2034 things will turn 180 degree
So our establishment has to think and formulate respectively

 

[maximus777]

From getting routed in 8 days (they ran away from NEFA btw) to smashing Patton's three years later to smashing chinese in artillery duels two years later to splitting, at that time, USAs biggest proxy army and the world's most powerful Islamic army (at that time) is not good?

What you currently have is a PM who understands India's power is willing to shut up and bide his time, until India becomes sufficient on its own to eradicate Mlecchas

Running from NEFA after gobbling up the entire Tibetan plateau! Granted they over extended themselves and ran away, but the mission was accomplished - Tibet became part of akhand PRC and India/IA humiliated. Pattons were operated by duffers, breaking their nation and winning some artillery duels are legit achievements within the context of that point in history and once again with USSR's tacit backing. Not sure if this has any bearing on the situation that we have with PRC today.

You appear like a glass if half full kind of person, but I am warning that there is a hole in the glass and we better pull up socks soon.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Bakchodi is same at every fronts
View attachment 167415

Arrey fuck. Kya lawde hai ye GoI. Harr saal ye Christmas truce ki playacting do front pe.

 

[Kumaoni]

Running from NEFA after gobbling up the entire Tibetan plateau! Granted they over extended themselves and ran away, but the mission was accomplished - Tibet became part of akhand PRC and India/IA humiliated. Pattons were operated by duffers, breaking their nation and winning some artillery duels are legit achievements within the context of that point in history and once again with USSR's tacit backing. Not sure if this has any bearing on the situation that we have with PRC today.

You appear like a glass if half full kind of person, but I am warning that there is a hole in the glass and we better pull up socks soon.

Lol what? How is india supposed to capture or fight for tibet, m8? Send tanks cross the himalayas

PAF held its own against Israel and the USSR. The Americans trained the most with Pakistan back then, even Chuck Yeager said this. Pak army was quite formidable back then. And the USA wont send nuclear submarines to attack today will it, india doesnt need anyone to save.

 

[Kumaoni]

One sec bro
Being most pessimistic person I shouldn't be saying this
But during 1962-1971 we were very aggressive wrt prc u could even think about 1967
Even during sunderji he had a lot of focus on Chinese and also prepared many strategies against them
If u ask about sunderji I can't prove as I have read and not researched
The period we were soft on them was from 1990 although pvnr had some focus on them too
But right now situation is different I truly feel that period has come that our aggressiveness will be more than 1962-1971
Yes due to sm or many other sources and especially BJP rule assertiveness will be much higher even our armed forces have got a big shock and atleast they can't forget it for next 30¹40 years
But equation changes if congress comes to power in future which is obviously certain as BJP won't be able to hold power for long as the ecosystem won't allow so congress could come in 2024 or 2029 or even worst case 2034 things will turn 180 degree
So our establishment has to think and formulate respectively

In 90s, they were actually trying to not be a douchebag, so it was understandable. We recoginzed Sikkim and AP as India and the PRC could do nothing but cry about it. They haven't even declassified their archives yet lol

 

[maximus777]

Lol what? How is india supposed to capture or fight for tibet, m8? Send tanks cross the himalayas

PAF held its own against Israel and the USSR. The Americans trained the most with Pakistan back then, even Chuck Yeager said this. Pak army was quite formidable back then. And the USA wont send nuclear submarines to attack today will it, india doesnt need anyone to save.

Why is it so funny? Tibet was a buffer zone and there was an unwritten agreement to keep it that way between two Asian giants. But then we had a lund fakir PM who turned a blind eye to CCP salami slicing and then lost it completely in 1962. In the same vein, why did India stand up for Bhutan in Doklam?

PA/PAF is pathetic. The machines are only as good the men behind it, and we know their caliber.

 

[mokoman]

They declared a ceasefire in 19 November itself.
On 19 November, it declared a unilateral cease-fire. Zhou Enlai declared a unilateral ceasefire to start on midnight, 21 November. Zhou's ceasefire declaration stated,



They didnt occupy it and decide to leave midway, they decided to leave on 19 Nov itself. and this was before Nehru wrote to the US. So, they ran away from NEFA.

on paper yes , on ground they occupied Tawang until january . they pretty much ruled tawang for 3 months time . trying to turn the people against us .

 

[Kumaoni]

Why is it so funny? Tibet was a buffer zone and there was an unwritten agreement to keep it that way between two Asian giants. But then we had a lund fakir PM who turned a blind eye to CCP salami slicing and then lost it completely in 1962. In the same vein, why did India stand up for Bhutan in Doklam?

PA/PAF is pathetic. The machines are only as good the man behind it, and we know their caliber.

No, it was their Qing Vassal state. Qing helped them agaisnt the Dogra Empire and Nepal, they were always in a position to take it. India couldn't even do forward policy correctly and you expect them to take tibet? Lol. Are you comparing capturing tibet with defending some land in Bhutan

 

[Kumaoni]

on paper yes , on ground they occupied Tawang until january . they pretty much ruled tawang for 3 months time . trying to turn the people against us .

Mate, they were planning to leave, they even declared it, so they ran away. Will you now dispute Zhou Enlai's own words

PA/PAF is pathetic. The machines are only as good the man behind it, and we know their caliber.

They were quite formidable until 2010, when they had american aid.

 

[maximus777]

They were quite formidable until 2010, when they had american aid.

How does it explain PA/PAF performance in Kargil and maybe even Siachen then? They ran with their tail between their legs. In fact PAF was non existent in Kargil - maybe that's what inspired Ruski AF in the current Ukraine conflict.

 

[maximus777]

No, it was their Qing Vassal state. Qing helped them agaisnt the Dogra Empire and Nepal, they were always in a position to take it. India couldn't even do forward policy correctly and you expect them to take tibet? Lol. Are you comparing capturing tibet with defending some land in Bhutan

Forward policy with what - WW2 guns, summer shoes and soccer socks? What was our junkie PM doing while they were salami slicing for at least 15 years post independence?

Qing vassal or not, they were a dharmic country and a mutually agreed upon buffer state which was encroached upon by PRC and we didnt nothing until problem got out of hand.

 

[Kumaoni]

How does it explain PA/PAF performance in Kargil and maybe even Siachen then? They ran with their tail between their legs. In fact PAF was non existent in Kargil - maybe that's what inspired Ruski AF in the current Ukraine conflict.

They wanted to keep the myth that they were sending only Mujahideens and not their regular army. Kargil and Siachen were won due to better tactics on the Indian Side. At that same time, ISI trained Mujahideen were giving hell to soviets and the PAF even had a few dogfights with them (Pakistan’s F-16s Battled Soviet Jets—and Shot Down the Future Vice President of Russia | The National Interest )

Forward policy with what - WW2 guns, summer shoes and soccer socks? What was our junkie PM doing while they were salami slicing for at least 15 years post independence?

Qing vassal or not, they were a dharmic country and a mutually agreed upon buffer state which was encroached upon by PRC and we didnt nothing until problem got out of hand.

Lol thats what I am saying. How do you plan to capture Tibet?

 

[maximus777]

They wanted to keep the myth that they were sending only Mujahideens and not their regular army. Kargil and Siachen were won due to better tactics on the Indian Side. At that same time, ISI trained Mujahideen were giving hell to soviets and the PAF even had a few dogfights with them (Pakistan’s F-16s Battled Soviet Jets—and Shot Down the Future Vice President of Russia | The National Interest )

Lol thats what I am saying. How do you plan to capture Tibet?

Timelines still dont align. Bangaldesh war happened in 1971 where those duffers had the hardware but not the brains to use it. So us whacking them doesnt prove anything new since we were always better and smarter strategically.

PA/PAF resisting the Soviets in the 80s had everything - hardware, intel, EW support and possibly CIA controllers handholding them every step of the way at least on the Afghan front. Both Siachen and Kargil again prove that they are still duffers and cant do sh!t unless someone is there to baby sit them.

Not capture Tibet, but pull a Doklam. At the first sign of salami slicing send in your infantry forces to Tibet and confront them. Raise the cost at the very beginning instead of lauda lassun panch-sheel! In the 1950s, CCP/PLA were heavily involved in the Korean war and would have been super wary of a second front even with favorable odds. For arguments sake, if a conflict did happen, who do you think McArthur and Co. would have backed?

Instead we waited till the problem grew exponentially and were left to contend with the battle hardened PLA veterans from the Korean war in 1962. Chacha 420's NAM initiative meant both super powers were pissed off with us at the outset and no one came to our aid. After much NAM diarrhea he did write to JFK begging for help! If only better sense had a prevailed which brings me back to my earlier point where history has not been kind to Bharat.