India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[akk]

Just saw excerpts of FM Jaishankar’s interview with Arnab.

I like the FM a lot but think his approach to China is a little flawed. This is because:

- he appears to advocate resolving the dispute via dialogue with reference to status quo and the two countries’ 1993 agreement to deploy minimum troops around the border.

- Essentially He says in his business things are resolved by talks.

- Yes he is correct about dialogue and one acknowledges statecraft is a complex and unique craft BUT I don’t think he is not correct in this regard with respect to China.

- his apparent mindset is flawed because China is not a rules based country as it has demonstrated to the world time and time again.

- hence as China has breached the 1993 agreement and all other agreements, India’s starting position should be, these agreements are void. Clean slate. Lets negotiate (see below).

- Jaishankar is a career diplomat who started in the 1970s and cut his teeth in the 80s and 90s - China And the world then was a different beast.

- I think Jaishankar should shift his approach vis a vie China (if that is possible seeing that he is somewhat long in the tooth career wise) to that of some of the more hawkish US diplomats who, especially a few decades ago, used some pretty effective coercive diplomacy to achieve their goals.

- the then US approach appeared to proceed on the basis that diplomacy was NOT an alternative to military force. Rather, the US diplomacy was part of it and rolled into hard US power projections as spearheaded by its military.

- I think the US approach WILL NOT be broadly applicable to India these days BUT I believe it is certainly applicable regarding China because China is unique In the way it is organised internally and hence in the way it conducts its statecraft.

- Essentially, China only understands the language of strength which only the Indian armed forces can project.

- therefore Indian diplomacy for China must evolve into a more coercive form and be rolled into a coercive Indian military force.

Sir, you are correct....... But
What he is telling you is not whispering in your ear, but out loud to the world. He can only say what should sound like a principled stance.
He has spent many years in China. He speaks mandarin well and has a Japanese wife. I doubt anybody else understands China better than him, in GOI.
What he accepts in public and what we might do, can be entirely different things.
An interview is meant, not only for public consumption but also enemy's consumption, so its like propaganda.
Equally, while we may not like it, there would be limits to what may be achievable.
Conclusion: ignore the content of the interview. Just appreciate his speaking skills and wordcraft

 

[BabaKhalbali]

That vehicle seems to be having a Chinese number plate which are usually blue in colour

 

[mokoman]

Chinese requested the meeting purely to send message that there will be no pullback or negotiations.

I am guessing they wont be budging .

So everyone stays where they are until mid September or October then its campaign season and we will see if there is war.

 

[another_armchair]

I hope next time a Chinese car intrudes into Indian territory without valid papers, the car is pushed off a cliff edge/slope and the bastards are made to walk to their outpost.
If this happens a dozen times, it will send the message across to the fkrs.

Aur agli baar BC cylinder mein oxygen nahi, Helium bhar ke dena.. or Gobar Gas so The Hindu has material to write another scathing (f)article about fascist Indian Govt and Gobar Times can cry itself hoarse.

 

[johnq]

got it. thanks.

P.S. : I think we need a growler like system based on mki.

This one kind of works like the growler:
EXCLUSIVE: How A Secretive DRDO Lab Is Saving The IAF Su-30MKI

 

[BabaKhalbali]

I hope next time a Chinese car intrudes into Indian territory without valid papers, the car is pushed off a cliff edge/slope and the bastards are made to walk to their outpost.
If this happens a dozen times, it will send the message across to the fkrs.

We shouldn't be killing regular civilians. We are neither NK, Pakistan nor China

 

[another_armchair]

We shouldn't be killing regular civilians. We are neither NK, Pakistan nor China

Yes, we are the land of 'Ghandy' after all.
When someone abducts five of your citizens, you offer 50 more.

 

[ezsasa]

I hope next time a Chinese car intrudes into Indian territory without valid papers, the car is pushed off a cliff edge/slope and the bastards are made to walk to their outpost.
If this happens a dozen times, it will send the message across to the fkrs.

Aur agli baar BC cylinder mein oxygen nahi, Helium bhar ke dena.. or Gobar Gas so The Hindu has material to write another scathing (f)article about fascist Indian Govt and Gobar Times can cry itself hoarse.

Be nice.. if you happen to be there in that situation, would you expect PLA to do the same to you.

 

[Tumba]

It doesn't compromise Russia's security at all because the export versions of all Russian weapons are downgraded versions and operate differently using different algorithms. All weapons exporters do this, and I am sure India will too, when the time comes. Also, you can learn a lot about a radar system by studying its waveform, provided you have enough time. It's like hacking a network, you can get through eventually provided you have enough access time and a good enough computer.
The other solution is of course wide band barrage jamming. If you jam all frequencies simultaneously at high enough power, even an AESA radar will suffer tracking range loss. Think of it as playing your radio really loud and moving through all station frequencies back and forth, but doing it really fast: In reality it's more complicated. It's like your wifi network working at reduced ranges because of interference from your neighbor's wifi. Indian Air Force and Army has these kinds of wide band jammers capable of barrage jamming in all different radio wave bands.

S-400 radar/radars jump into frequency faster than any so called jammer(which by the way none of our fighters has) and the more closer u get the impossible it is to jam,
May be F-18 growler can do it for some amount of time but pretty sure it will be taken down either by SAM or AAM,
the critical issue is how long can u bait a S400 type system if bait is destroyed the jammer craft is done for, also m not sure even growler has that much processing power to keep up with a large land based system like S400 combine it with enemy fighters and awacs scanning for u...
also downgrade in many purchases basically means not coming with supportive systems doesnt mean u get some lesser radar ranges etc. or missile ranges even if u didnt sign the treaties will.

 

[Deathstar]

Yes, we are the land of 'Ghandy' after all.
When someone abducts five of your citizens, you offer 50 more.

Wtf i dont understand this pacifist shitty attitude. We dont do this , we have morals bullshit.

 

[ezsasa]

In case Germany tries to insert themselves into the Quad, i think it is not a good idea as long Germany is in china camp.
=======
Today Germany formally adopted an Indo-Pacific strategy. What's the significance of this move? What is in this strategy and why now?

 

[another_armchair]

Be nice.. if you happen to be there in that situation, would you expect PLA to do the same to you.

Watch the first 2 minutes of the video. Have seen+heard of worse hostility by their forces towards Indian bikers and travelers.
OTOH, their citizens are rather nice and chill.
I said 'if they don't have valid papers and intrude into Indian territory'.

 

[Mikesingh]

Defence Minister Rajnath Singh’s full statement on the India-China defence ministers talks in Moscow​

An interesting video too re the border imbroglio in the international media.......

 

[A chauhan]

Chairless meeting ? :-

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars, The Next round expected on 10th between India-China FMs. PLA has done everything with a motive, they are not here for peace. We have enough stock of the chai Biscoots.

 

[Chanakya 002]

several sq ft wtf kha se hai bhai tu... F35 ka bc test pilot to nai tha...
mujhe muaaf kar de bahut gyani hai ....

Y some of our members always cry for having F-35, what different class it offers other then a low RCS or Stealth. Need our R&D in the area of high tech defence items which we purchase from other countries with our hard money.

 

[Sanglamorre]

What'll they get with these tactics? This will only anger local Arunachalis.
Anyways they ain't coming back. So God help them.

Information on where they're porting to, what they're carrying, how many porters engaged, etc.

It's also a tactic to undermine IA as protectors.

 

[Pugilist]

Mount Kailash and the PLA/CCP

Here are my thoughts. Some may poo poo my take on such matters but that’s their problem.

1. In Hinduism and other eastern religions, energy form, that is the other dimension a lot of people seek, cannot simply be shared with, or, to use a contemporary term, “downloaded” by everyone. That is, there needs to spiritual compatibility between guru and seeker for it to be shared or, at the least, the seeker needs to be receptive to it.

2. Through many millennia gurus, yogis etc, downloaded energy and knowledge in remote peaks in the Himalayas. Such places because as they were remote but not inaccessible, so the energy and power is preserved here, not lost.

3. Mount Kailash is one such place. Probably the most sacred of places for Hindus, Buddhists, Jains and others as Shiva himself downloaded his energy source here.

4. Mount Kailash is therefore a place of immeasurable power and knowledge. It has the most amount of knowledge stored in energy form of any place on this planet. It is therefore the greatest mystical library in the world.

5. Such energy places cannot be destroyed.

6. As stated in 1, not everyone can download or connect to this energy source.

7. With Mount Kailash it appears most of the PLA and CCP will never understand it or connect with its energy source for obvious reasons.

8. The PLA/CCP may therefore try to desecrate it as it is widely reported recently.

9. I would say even if they desecrated it or destroyed it, they will not be able to destroy its sacred nature and the energy and knowledge therein – see 5.

10. However, what I’m not sure about is what happens to someone who tries to desecrate such a sacred energy source as it appears the PLA/CCP are trying to do to Mount Kailash. Does the immense energy therein turn on them negatively even if over time? I do not know the answer to this but whatever it is I am sure it will not be good?

 

[Synergy]

after this meeting between DM and his counterpart, if next time EAM continues with his counterpart, then that'd be a big mistake.

 

[AMCA]

Extreme Cringe! How did this even happen? Indian Army crossed over into China and helped these people out? Or they entered India and were helped? Were they loitering in a "gray zone"? That car is too fancy for tourism near a hostile border, no? How did they determine that those aren't spies? And that jawan serving food on a tray to the Chinese...ick. Mega cringe.

Or we abducted these Chinese citizens in retaliation to 5 porters kidnapped by PLA in AP?