India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Lancer]

Not a matter for us, we always take that as pride....

Filmy dialogues have no place in serious discussions.

There's zero pride in suffering losses that were *completely avoidable* if you had been smart and used some foresight/strategic thought to achieve long term objectives.

Or would you like to tell a war widow or orphan that you prefer to leave the Kashmir issue burning for another 70 yrs and stoke thousands of more troops (incl. their husband/father) into the fire because seeing coffins go back to others' homes allows you to experience vicarious pride?

 

[omaebakabaka]

buy F35 eat grass and buy some more, Tejas program is deliberately fckud by IAF itself,
whole Tejas MK1A orders of 83 will be delayed thats wat IAF do to get more Rafales offer them better go F-35,
Euros are reducing F-35 orders, turks blew its chance ...
F-35 manufacturing is touching close to 25 a month, India can get all 100 by 2024/25 if ordered by next year

Not a bad idea if no political conditions are applied in its use, but if stealth proves to be dud then its one slow bird that is limited in range and load.

 

[Lancer]

Guess what will happen when there's some semblance of disengagement/peace? India will immediately raise eight mountain strike corps, because the PLA will be doing exactly that. Why? Xi Jinping's "make Tibet an impregnable fortress" directive to the PLA, and PLA's assumption that Tibet includes all of Ladakh, Sikkim, Bhutan, and Arunachal. PLA's biggest takeaway from the events since March 2020, is that it still has some way to go before it can scare India and achieve Xi's political goals without contact or a single bullet fired / single life lost on the ground.

India-China border will be as militarized as the Korean DMZ.

Hence my prediction that Indian troop-strengths will swell by 40-50%, with a proportionate upscale of equipment (radars, ALGs, light tanks, howitzers, MBRLs, attack helos, tactical transporters for para drops, surveillance equipment, MIL SATs, ASATs, border infra, tunnels, exotic railway projects such as Leh-Ambala, etc.).

Right now China's India posture is an over-reliance on technology that the border-clash situations seldom demand. For example, contact at Pangong Tso will not warrant the PLA unleashing a rocket volley.

Therefore the objective for both sides will be troop-strengths, and ensuring that every border feature (peak, ridge, valley, plain) is manned, so there's absolutely no scope for movement by the other side.

I hope India pretends to do this (while raising a much smaller mountain strike corps) - and simply lets the Chinese bankrupt themselves.

Sort of like Regan's Star Wars.

Swelling the Army by 40-50% while also providing it the type of tech that's necessary in this day and age + covering their OROP + upgrading and expanding the IAF and IN doesn't really sound financially viable to me. Especially when we are yet to even see a 1% increase in Defense Budget.

 

[Tumba]

Not a bad idea if no political conditions are applied in its use, but if stealth proves to be dud then its one slow bird that is limited in range and load.

if stealth was dud, US would not invest a trillion in F-35 and India would not try to create AMCA, stealth works and its the only thing which will work when chinese can deploy cloned S-300/400 all over the place, local area air dominance requires for stopping chini salamis, the current situation will keep on going back and forth, India needs to get to chini soft spots thats G219 only way is stealth they have countless HQs and S-300/400 our land forces wont move forward in plateau planes if no cover is provided, put fear of Tandav in chini midgets get close to striking distance of the highways...

 

[patriots]

So chineese are not trying to reclaim the heights...
May be they are preparing for the worst ...
I don't feel they will back silently......

 

[Tridev123]

Guess what will happen when there's some semblance of disengagement/peace? India will immediately raise eight mountain strike corps, because the PLA will be doing exactly that. Why? Xi Jinping's "make Tibet an impregnable fortress" directive to the PLA, and PLA's assumption that Tibet includes all of Ladakh, Sikkim, Bhutan, and Arunachal. PLA's biggest takeaway from the events since March 2020, is that it still has some way to go before it can scare India and achieve Xi's political goals without contact or a single bullet fired / single life lost on the ground.

India-China border will be as militarized as the Korean DMZ.

Hence my prediction that Indian troop-strengths will swell by 40-50%, with a proportionate upscale of equipment (radars, ALGs, light tanks, howitzers, MBRLs, attack helos, tactical transporters for para drops, surveillance equipment, MIL SATs, ASATs, border infra, tunnels, exotic railway projects such as Leh-Ambala, etc.).

Right now China's India posture is an over-reliance on technology that the border-clash situations seldom demand. For example, contact at Pangong Tso will not warrant the PLA unleashing a rocket volley.

Therefore the objective for both sides will be troop-strengths, and ensuring that every border feature (peak, ridge, valley, plain) is manned, so there's absolutely no scope for movement by the other side.

I largely agree with the assessment. I had advocated increasing the number of mountain strike corps from 1 to 2 as a near term measure. But it is essential that these additional units are well trained and equipped.

I think maintaining a defensive posture on the Indo-China border for decades was counter productive. The Chinese believed that India would never seek to capture Chinese controlled territory and would at the most fight to prevent Chinese capture of Indian land.

We need to move from this mindset. Against a non peaceful country like China we should aspire to permanently recapture Aksai Chin(Hind) and also free all of Tibet..
There is nothing immoral in wanting to expand our boundaries as countries like China and Pakistan have been doing the same. We should think of reclaiming the whole of POK and GB as a start. India has since Independence given away land to neighbours instead of gaining land.

Whether we can have several mountain strike corps instead of possible two is open to question as finding money to finance the units may become a problem. Sustained economic growth > 8% is needed to realise our plans.

I think it is within our capability to match the PLA in the Tibet region. We should also start looking at the Xinjiang region bordering Tibet as the population there is against China. If both Tibet and Xinjiang become free from Chinese occupation we would have peaceful borders across North India. That should be our ultimate goal.

A lean and mean army is a desirable objective but after the latest tensions on the China border I feel there will be a rethink on plans to downsize the army. On the other hand we may need to increase mountain divisions. Getting technological edge over China will require time and effort. Hope that our defence sector starts to deliver in a big way.

 

[Tumba]

So chineese are not trying to reclaim the heights...
May be they are preparing for the worst ...
I don't feel they will back silently......

yup thy sure r planning to one up India for sure inflated ego of Hans wont let them go back, Arunachal front will be opened and rocket forces will starting showering leh mountains and valleys... oct end nov when snows Get rigid due to frost.. that will be the window to move forward

 

[Tuco]

So chineese are not trying to reclaim the heights...
May be they are preparing for the worst ...
I don't feel they will back silently......

Yeah we need a live feed from those hills so that all of us can keep a close eye. You just cannot believe stinkies, pakis they are crude and simple we exactly know what they will do they are like say kumbhakarna not comparing the intellect here. China is like Indrajeet.

 

[omaebakabaka]

if stealth was dud, US would not invest a trillion in F-35 and India would not try to create AMCA, stealth works and its the only thing which will work when chinese can deploy cloned S-300/400 all over the place, local area air dominance requires for stopping chini salamis, the current situation will keep on going back and forth, India needs to get to chini soft spots thats G219 only way is stealth they have countless HQs and S-300/400 our land forces wont move forward in plateau planes if no cover is provided, put fear of Tandav in chini midgets get close to striking distance of the highways...

Judgement is not out yet but all indications are its considered one of the worst projects ever attempted in US defence industry. It has not seen any combat against a rated power either. Stealth is guaranteed to be broken if not already. This is one plane that will become obsolete faster than anything in US fighter fleet.

 

[EarthCitizen]

The abduction of Indian people by PLA in Arunachal is becoming big issues

 

[Tumba]

Judgement is not out yet but all indications are its considered one of the worst projects ever attempted in US defence industry. It has not seen any combat against a rated power either. Stealth is guaranteed to be broken if not already. This is one plane that will become obsolete faster than anything in US fighter fleet.

pretty sire USA wont buy 1500+ of them if obsolescence was the future case, see when a nation as advance as Us takes a decision for strategic buys all kind of calculations are involved, ppl like u n me can keep saying. X Band radars Irst but all these so called magical things are no where to seen in numbers all countries are starting with own stealth planes,
F-35 is not only a stealth but can carry varied ammunition in non stealth form same as any 4th gen.

 

[Bleh]

The abduction of Indian people by PLA in Arunachal is becoming big issues

The Arunachal border is porus & equally vague as Ladakh LAC... abd even local often cross it.

For this to stop IA must physically occupy heights at Arunachal too & maintain a continuous front.

 

[spikey360]

Dhoti Shivering term should be modified to Salwaar shivering. The greatest fighters of Bharatvarsh wore dhotis even in the battlefield. It is only Chrislam loving, thekedars of economy whose Salwar Kameez shiver at the thought of war. Srimad Bhagvad Gita was a sermon not only of peace but of battle.
I implore all Sanatanis to invoke Swayambhagavan and remember His sermons to Arjun.
Fight, for that, is our duty. If Lord is not on our side, let us choose to be on Lord's side.

 

[prasadr14]

lets call it "burkha shivering"...
covers a few bases and hits the right spot.

 

[omaebakabaka]

pretty sire USA wont buy 1500+ of them if obsolescence was the future case, see when a nation as advance as Us takes a decision for strategic buys all kind of calculations are involved, ppl like u n me can keep saying. X Band radars Irst but all these so called magical things are no where to seen in numbers all countries are starting with own stealth planes,
F-35 is not only a stealth but can carry varied ammunition in non stealth form same as any 4th gen.

Ha ha, when world is paying taxes to uncle sam (aka USD as reserve) they can buy anything. It is one of those projects that is not worth the investment. I like both F-35 and F-22 but cost to benefit is not proven for F-35 and I doubt it will be. This plan top speed is low mach 1.2 (not at full tank) and pay load is mediocre. Its only trick is to rely on stealth to justify those parameters. F-14 was a wonderful aircraft even to this day but US got rid of it, corruption schemes are everywhere.

As I said before, not a bad idea based on your analysis on its availability with Turkey dropping out e.t.c....I think it comes in at close to $100 million not including armaments. Right along Rafale....

Conceptually SU-57 looks good on paper as they learned from F-22 drawbacks....its stealthy to minimize signature but weapons can be carried externally if necessary where as F-22 all internal and therefore limited but F-22 is 15 years old and su-57 is yet to formally inducted.

 

[A chauhan]

Let me take you a bit off the topic...

India time of Independence declaration at 1200 night, Abhijit Muhurta and the day was decided by three Brahmins astrologically - Pundit Hardoe Joshi, Pundit Rajendra Prasad and Sarvapalli Radhakrishnan. It was actually synchronised with the birth chart of Nehru... with the aim of perpetuating Nehru and his dynasty rule over India..

But in doing so, five planets got placed in the third house - house of valour, neighbourhood, conflicts, borders, communications travels ., roads etc... dangers and courage...

India borders as per that chart will always remain volatile and in trouble and Indian Army will always remain on tenterhooks..

I had heard about this but didn't hear anything about the bold part. Modi's reign proves otherwise. However if you can't make your Kundali stronger than you can always take benefit from the weaknesses of your enemy's Kundali.

If North West is problematic for us than divide the enemy of the North West which is there in their Kundali and rinse repeat.

 

[spikey360]

Against a heathen enemy like China, Mlecchs, as we call them, we need to militarise our thoughts and mobilise our populace.
Crush them first in your mind, if you ever want to crush them at the end, by might.
Chinese CP members and anyone fighting for them are sub-humans.

 

[Mikesingh]

Tibetan community in Shimla cheers for Indian Army, waves flags as the convoy leaves for deployment in Ladakh frontiers

In a video clip shared by news agency ANI, the Tibetan community living in Himachal Pradesh’s capital Shima was seen cheering for the Indian army. The Indian soldiers who were headed to LAC were heartily welcomed by the Tibetan community members who greeted them with Indian flags, Tibetan flags and white scarves.


Internationally too, members of the Tibetan community have been hailing India’s soldiers and PM Modi’s leadership for standing up to China’s agression and expansionist designs in the region. The Tibetan government in exile, which have their headquarters in Dharmashala, had also urged the Indian government to address China’s continuing occupation of their homeland Tibet.

 

[Freezer Dam]

Filmy dialogues have no place in serious discussions.

There's zero pride in suffering losses that were *completely avoidable* if you had been smart and used some foresight/strategic thought to achieve long term objectives.

Or would you like to tell a war widow or orphan that you prefer to leave the Kashmir issue burning for another 70 yrs and stoke thousands of more troops (incl. their husband/father) into the fire because seeing coffins go back to others' homes allows you to experience vicarious pride?

Then you should look into the Indian history again....

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

The abduction of Indian people by PLA in Arunachal is becoming big issues

How can the Chinese go past Indian Army Border Posts in the area? What were the Assam Rifles doing? These Chinese raids are designed to intimidate the people living near the border areas not to speak out against the Chinese operations in the area. The Chinese trying to slowly chip away at Indian lands using salami slicing.