India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[shashankk]

Whats this left and right blacktop?

 

[another_armchair]

I don't see negotiations with China bearing any fruit whether at military level or at diplomatic level.

Xi has laid down his military objectives in black and white and clearly listed near term goals for his generals.

It will take a completely blind person or someone with a bad affliction of stockholm syndrome to ignore it.

If we gift away Arunachal tomorrow, they will raise Sikkim as a new contentious issue. Day after, it could be the Chinese colony in Kolkata or elsewhere in India.

PM Modi has said it in very clear terms - No more expansionism into Indian territory.

Regardless of how China tantalizes CSG Babus and MEA+FM, there is no going back till we have Modi as PM and General Rawat as CDS.

For once, Indian Govt. has ignored China's rent boy Pakistan and gone straight for his masters throat.

 

[ezsasa]

China crossed the line* against India... Just a little correction...

semantics...

but at a larger philosophical level, my personal belief is that one’s own destiny is in one’s own hands and one’s own choices. Once choices are made, no point in blaming others if things don’t work out.

if we start placing our keys to happiness in other’s hands, battle is half lost. Hence the statement “India might have crossed the point of no return..”.

 

[Chanakya 002]

I support the return of status quo ante as of April 2020.
But if we do not vacate some of the peaks occupied recently as a concession for the PLA withdrawing from all its new positions in Pangong Tso, Depsang etc why will the Chinese consider any agreement.

I know various Indian Governments have frittered away the gains made by our army by returning captured territory be it Haji Pir or other areas. Not the most optimum course of action.

But China is different from Pakistan. Do we really want to annex Chinese controlled land on a permanent basis now. Might result in all out war. Are we ready?. The Chinese might just decide to escalate to the nuclear level. Are we ready?.

If an all out war had already broken out and we made territorial gains then we are fully justified in retaining the captured land. It will count as war gains.

But if a peaceful resolution happens wherein we do not lose any territory and go back to April 2020 positions, should we insist on holding on to the newly captured enemy land.

It is one thing to punish an aggressor and teach him a lesson and quite another to permanently grab his land. China is not Pakistan. We know the Chinese have grabbed Aksai Chin(Hind) and other areas but as of now they have a much larger economy and military and a total war will not be easy. If India at present had a 10 trillion dollars economy I and everyone would support any aggressive action by India. So it is a dicey situation and may be we should be cautious.

But even if we reach an agreement we should guard against Chinese treachery. They might make an attempt to capture all the peaks that we vacate. We need to have contingency plans to counter possible Chinese moves. Only if we are sure we can manage the situation only then we should proceed forward with any peace agreement.

The Government I am sure will consider all aspects before arriving at any possible peace agreement.

Let me remind you my dear fellow that, yudh hi to veerta ki praram hai, we may loos we may gain but before war who is the desire. Hum haar gaye to sikhenge or jeet gaye to or jeetenge. Jai Hind

 

[Tridev123]

That's how you play poker....time to call the bluff....win or lose.

I don't know. War is serious business. The Chinese economy has reached a plateau and may never return to double digit growth whereas India has the potential to grow even at 10% for the next decade.Do we want to risk it.

If it were Pakistan we know we can manage whatever they throw at us.

 

[mokoman]

Whats this left and right blacktop?

I saw that too ,

Its peak of black top. Maybe their monitoring equipment are placed there,too small to be a camp.

There is a small trail from there down to the PLA base . I think the chinese call it 'Qiudi Sengel outpost'

 

[omaebakabaka]

I don't know. War is serious business. The Chinese economy has reached a plateau and may never return to double digit growth whereas India has the potential to grow even at 10% for the next decade.Do we want to risk it.

If it were Pakistan we know we can manage whatever they throw at us.

You are over estimating China, I think we have good strategists in current govt and very experienced army...I trust if they made a move they did some risk analysis and also we are not the one pushing for war. They are....the press hype you see is not GOI official communication to Chinese government....don't take it at face value.

 

[shaktishivashakti]

I support the return of status quo ante as of April 2020.
But if we do not vacate some of the peaks occupied recently as a concession for the PLA withdrawing from all its new positions in Pangong Tso, Depsang etc why will the Chinese consider any agreement.

I know various Indian Governments have frittered away the gains made by our army by returning captured territory be it Haji Pir or other areas. Not the most optimum course of action.

But China is different from Pakistan. Do we really want to annex Chinese controlled land on a permanent basis now. Might result in all out war. Are we ready?. The Chinese might just decide to escalate to the nuclear level. Are we ready?.

If an all out war had already broken out and we made territorial gains then we are fully justified in retaining the captured land. It will count as war gains.

But if a peaceful resolution happens wherein we do not lose any territory and go back to April 2020 positions, should we insist on holding on to the newly captured enemy land.

It is one thing to punish an aggressor and teach him a lesson and quite another to permanently grab his land. China is not Pakistan. We know the Chinese have grabbed Aksai Chin(Hind) and other areas but as of now they have a much larger economy and military and a total war will not be easy. If India at present had a 10 trillion dollars economy I and everyone would support any aggressive action by India. So it is a dicey situation and may be we should be cautious.

But even if we reach an agreement we should guard against Chinese treachery. They might make an attempt to capture all the peaks that we vacate. We need to have contingency plans to counter possible Chinese moves. Only if we are sure we can manage the situation only then we should proceed forward with any peace agreement.

The Government I am sure will consider all aspects before arriving at any possible peace agreement.

Status quo ante as of april 2020 will not solve and will never solve any of the issue that India faces : pak, nepal, bengla and china.
Something has to give up forcefully. Either we lose Arunachala either we get a Free Tibet. Any solution other than that will only aggravate our headache.

 

[shade]

"Then again globalist liberals were happy with the greedy money-over-everything old CCP, they don't like Xi putting a spoke in their wheel every now and then "

That sentence had some undertones for me and his message to likes ratio but I could be wrong....I noticed some troll's are very subtle on this forum. May be I made a mistake in interpreting....

They aren't happy with Xi's hostility towards everyone, he has made it obvious by now.
Which is why you saw those CIA sponsored HK protests/ riots, and very well equipped rioters with helmets and anti tear gas masks and all.
Which is why you see increased reporting of the Uyghur concentration camps in Xinjiang.
MSM has surprisingly negative coverage of the Chinese since two three years, it is because the globalists want Xi and his coterie to be removed, and have more malleable CCP coterie and "Supreme Leader" installed.

Their landgrab schemes however are permanent, so any other CCP wala would also try salami slicing land grabs every year, only with Xi it has increased a lot, Xi is going for the whole salami instead of just getting slices

For once, Indian Govt. has ignored China's rent boy Pakistan and gone straight for his masters throat.

Porkers are finished, it is very comedic to see Immy begging at UNSC and in foreign countries about muh atrocities in Kashmir, their jihad has failed, their NC and PDP puppets neutralized, and a direct retaliation from the Indian armed forces over any big stunt they pull with their jihadis

 

[Shashank Nayak]

K6?

Why .. what about K-5 ?

 

[shaktishivashakti]

I don't see negotiations with China bearing any fruit whether at military level or at diplomatic level.

If we gift away Arunachal tomorrow, they will raise Sikkim as a new contentious issue. Day after, it could be the Chinese colony in Kolkata or elsewhere in India.

For once, Indian Govt. has ignored China's rent boy Pakistan and gone straight for his masters throat.

Agree with you, I'll only add that they will also claim Andaman island.

 

[shade]

You are over estimating China, I think we have good strategists in current govt and very experienced army...I trust if they made a move they did some risk analysis and also we are not the one pushing for war. They are....the press hype you see is not GOI official communication to Chinese government....don't take it at face value.

They haven't been in a war in the last 20 years.
They haven't faced proxy wars and insurgencies like our troops have in Kashmir or those Naxal/Maoist infested areas.
All their bluster is over their industrial capacity, and their ability to make equipment somewhat on par with US/EU/Russia by their whole industrial espionage setup, and "2nd Largest Economy".
They have materiel, but do they have the men?
40 years of prosperity has made them soft.

They also have a good spying network i think, but i'm not sure if this is their own or outsourced to their Iron Brother Slave

 

[Chanakya 002]

I don't know. War is serious business. The Chinese economy has reached a plateau and may never return to double digit growth whereas India has the potential to grow even at 10% for the next decade.Do we want to risk it.

If it were Pakistan we know we can manage whatever they throw at us.

I will risk, economy is never an issue hum isse bhi boore wakt main rah chuke hain, and do you garenti that if we not fight we will be a 13 trillion economy by 2030.

 

[Kumata]

S JaiShankar’s book The India Way has come today
View attachment 58350

Need your feedback before i buy my copy.... @ezsasa

 

[shade]

I don't know. War is serious business. The Chinese economy has reached a plateau and may never return to double digit growth whereas India has the potential to grow even at 10% for the next decade.Do we want to risk it.

If it were Pakistan we know we can manage whatever they throw at us.

You can grow the economy back, especially with the "spurt" in growth right after the war.

What you should be worried about is the domestic situation during the war, the mediawalas, the opposition parties, the specific religious group that wants Sharia and Khilafat, Naxalites, those secessionist groups in the North East.

Enemies within and without want Modi out, what better opportunity than to cripple India's ability to effectively fight a war than with internal strife, ultimately resulting in a loss and the demoralization that follows.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

You can grow the economy back, especially with the "spurt" in growth right after the war.

What you should be worried about is the domestic situation during the war, the mediawalas, the opposition parties, the specific religious group that wants Sharia and Khilafat, Naxalites, those secessionist groups in the North East.

Enemies within and without want Modi out, what better opportunity than to cripple India's ability to effectively fight a war than with internal strife, ultimately resulting in a loss and the demoralization that follows.

Any war against a power like China.. will be fought under an emergency.. I dont mean skirmishes here.. but a war against China..

 

[Tridev123]

It is laughable to think that they will go back, no matter what we do outside of a proper war.
It is very good the IA or ITBP took over those mountain tops, the Chinese should get the message we will not go down without a fight, we will not pullback from our own land.

Hopefully this will result in a heavy militarization of the entire LAC, and Arunachal, Sikkim borders also, just like the LOC.
Salami slicing has never occured on the LOC now has it? because the swines on the other end know they will be shot, they tried during Kargil and we all know what happened to them

The Government of India does not share your view.
Why the hell will our Foreign Minister agree to meet the Chinese Foreign Minister if the Chinese did not agree to pull back.
This time the initiative for peace was taken by the Chinese side. It is reported that the Chinese Defence Minister went to the hotel where our Defence Minister Rajnath Singh was staying and met him. Probably they have been thoroughly outwitted by the Indian Army and are desperate for a face saving solution.

 

[tarunraju]

Why .. what about K-5 ?

Why not Sheshnaag 1A.

 

[Tridev123]

They haven't been in a war in the last 20 years.
They haven't faced proxy wars and insurgencies like our troops have in Kashmir or those Naxal/Maoist infested areas.
All their bluster is over their industrial capacity, and their ability to make equipment somewhat on par with US/EU/Russia by their whole industrial espionage setup, and "2nd Largest Economy".
They have materiel, but do they have the men?
40 years of prosperity has made them soft.

They also have a good spying network i think, but i'm not sure if this is their own or outsourced to their Iron Brother Slave

I would request military professionals to join the discussion on whether we should insist on all out war. Since they are the ones who will fight their opinion is important.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Sheshnaag 1A.

View attachment 58354

Whats that?