India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Bhurki]

That’s the funny thing, $2 billion or $ 1 billion......almost like there no real difference, anyone can say anything . It’s a ₹7500 crore difference and people are like..meh, whatever....

Times of India says "$1B for 2 phalcon systems'...

Hindustan Times says "$1B for 2 aircraft from russia" and "$1B for two airborne radar systems".

 

[Bhurki]

Govt. Decision to sell HALs stake is Good Move afterall.Anyways We need Tejas in big number only if we're serious about two front war!!

Pakistan is not producing them at 25/year.
The max rate of line is 16/year, but thry've been doing 12/year.

 

[UZI™️]

Pakistan is not producing them at 25/year.
The max rate of line is 16/year, but thry've been doing 12/year.

16 was in year 2016 and what year is it now?It takes them 15 days to assemble kits received from China into a Finished product and there was news recently in which China is going to help them increase the production rate even further.

 

[UZI™️]

Baba ki Naukri kha jayenge SirJi

 

[Mikesingh]

Pakistan is not producing them at 25/year.
The max rate of line is 16/year, but thry've been doing 12/year.

Plus the JF-17 is not free. It costs money to manufacture. And Pak is woefully short of it. The JF-17 costs $25 million per unit, although the Block III per-unit price is expected to go up to about $35 million a pop as a result of new subsystems, including the expensive new AESA radar system.

 

[Bhurki]

Times of India says "$1B for 2 phalcon systems'...

Hindustan Times says "$1B for 2 aircraft from russia" and "$1B for two airborne radar systems".

Any clarification?

 

[patriots]

Some options iaf have..from my point of view
Iaf has less aircraft s,so what options we have
1.increase production rate of akash 1s
2.start production of qrsam at earliest
3.production more and more mrsam
4.we can get foreign sam systems like spyder ,Barak max ..if they are agree to provide them in in minimum time
5. Get adavanced manpads also in numbers
6. Airdefense guns to shoot chineese drones
Sam systems can produced in numbers....

6.also can take lease of refueler s from friendly nation s
7. We have 2 drdo Netra aewacs ,but if 3rd Netra is ready then iaf can get them from drdo
8. Then meteor is the best bvr ,but it can be fired from Rafale only,so we have to integrate astra and mica with all frontline fighter
9. production of astra should be boosted.....
10. Spj should be a must for all frontline fighter s... already said by an iaf pilot that they will prefer a spj over a bvr
11. More quality stand off weapons like saaw, scalp should be ordered

Options for army .....
China has deployed light tanks ,but we have deployed t90 and bmp2
1.more long-range mpatgms
2. Deploy more namica carrier s

 

[Jaymax61]

Any clarification?

HT is wrong. ILs aren't that expensive. Unless the Russians managed to include stealth, super cruise into the planes while we were sleeping.

 

[BangaliBabu]

that won't be that much easy.

please don't forget, Chicken's neck is in Bengal. Bengali people can tolerate many things but they won't give a single inch of land if they have right on that, to anybody whoever he/she may be.
we all know what happened in Singur-Nandigram (not bringing any political point here). it was a civil war involving every person in that area.

it's true corrupt politics has tried to break the spine of Bengali people but Bengali land in foreign occupation at this time, sorry but the Ganges will turn red.

P.S. : yes, I'm a Bengali.

well the villagers there have a hacker in each of their homes. And they know the terrain like the palm of their hand. Chinese will get to know what's called cleaving of a human body. One blow of that severs a body into half whichever way it falls. I've one at home. Rusty but still deadly.

 

[LDev]

Times of India says "$1B for 2 phalcon systems'...

Hindustan Times says "$1B for 2 aircraft from russia" and "$1B for two airborne radar systems".

Yes, I think in 2009 the IL-76 aircraft was bought for about $170-180 MM per aircraft and Israel charged $1.1 billion for doing the structural modifications and installing the radome and associated equipment for 3 radars. This time around the Russians have increased the price by almost 3X and so it will be $500 MM per IL-76 plus the Israeli cost has also gone up from about $350 MM per Phalcon radar set to $500 MM per unit.

I have no idea why the IAF is fixated on this combination. The IL-76 fleet is not big and new production is very slow/non-existent, so spare parts are a problem. The EL/W-2090 (Phalcon radar) is good but not outstanding compared to other products. Airbus is willing to modify it's planes for mounting a radome or side-panels both on the A-330 as well as on the C-295. Boeing has no interest because they have their own integrated product, the E-7 Wedgetail. The list price of an Airbus A-330F is $240 MM per aircraft. This is the aircraft that India is planning on buying for the DRDO radar under development. I have no idea why the Phalcon could not be mounted on an A-330, it is half the price of the Russian IL-76, besides being a more modern aircraft, with better uptime and much easier to maintain. If it is good enough for the DRDO radar, why not also use it for the Phalcon?

 

[scatterStorm]

Guys,Does this make sense?Could we get better deal then this one?

The price we have to pay... I hope this would be our last AWACS deal.

 

[Bhurki]

Yes, I think in 2009 the IL-76 aircraft was bought for about $170-180 MM per aircraft and Israel charged $1.1 billion for doing the structural modifications and installing the radome and associated equipment for 3 radars. This time around the Russians have increased the price by almost 3X and so it will be $500 MM per IL-76 plus the Israeli cost has also gone up from about $350 MM per Phalcon radar set to $500 MM per unit.

I have no idea why the IAF is fixated on this combination. The IL-76 fleet is not big and new production is very slow/non-existent, so spare parts are a problem. The EL/W-2090 (Phalcon radar) is good but not outstanding compared to other products. Airbus is willing to modify it's planes for mounting a radome or side-panels both on the A-330 as well as on the C-295. Boeing has no interest because they have their own integrated product, the E-7 Wedgetail. The list price of an Airbus A-330F is $240 MM per aircraft. This is the aircraft that India is planning on buying for the DRDO radar under development. I have no idea why the Phalcon could not be mounted on an A-330, it is half the price of the Russian IL-76, besides being a more modern aircraft, with better uptime and much easier to maintain. If it is good enough for the DRDO radar, why not also use it for the Phalcon?

There is no way an IL 76 can cost $500M

 

[garg_bharat]

Govt. Decision to sell HALs stake is Good Move afterall.Anyways We need Tejas in big number only if we're serious about two front war!!

The failure to ramp up military equipment production is a very serious issue. GOI needs to show some demonstrable progress.

 

[Sehwag213]

 

[Lancer]

View attachment 57308

Unless he quickly recovers and comes back (though I doubt he'd resign if the illness wasn't serious), this is a serious blow to Modi and the Quad plans.

 

[Knowitall]

Unless he quickly recovers and comes back (though I doubt he'd resign if the illness wasn't serious), this is a serious blow to Modi and the Quad plans.

People here on this forum need to realise that quad was never going to be a military alliance anyway.

Our MEA had made it clear too.

The whole idea is that quad is supposed to be a military alliance against China so people expected these countries to jump in and help us in case we are attacked.

What people fail to realise here is that it would also mean that if any of the countries are attacked the would expect the same in return and this a big no no territory for India and hurts our whole we are neutral nonsense.

Even in the current situation quad remains in its current state.

Expecting countries to convert quad into a military alliance without them getting anything out of it is foolish.

 

[vampyrbladez]

View attachment 57308

Opposite reports on another channel.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...ncerns-in-press-conference-1716004-2020-08-28

Abe's ratings had come down due recently. Could be a ploy for public sympathy.

 

[vampyrbladez]

People here on this forum need to realise that quad was never going to be a military alliance anyway.

Our MEA had made it clear too.

The whole idea is that quad is supposed to be a military alliance against China so people expected these countries to jump in and help us in case we are attacked.

What people fail to realise here is that it would also mean that if any of the countries are attacked the would expect the same in return and this a big no no territory for India and hurts our whole we are neutral nonsense.

Even in the current situation quad remains in its current state.

Expecting countries to convert quad into a military alliance without them getting anything out of it is foolish.

We are holding military exercises and signing logistical agreements.

That is a military alliance.

 

[Lancer]

People here on this forum need to realise that quad was never going to be a military alliance anyway.

Our MEA had made it clear too.

The whole idea is that quad is supposed to be a military alliance against China so people expected these countries to jump in and help us in case we are attacked.

What people fail to realise here is that it would also mean that if any of the countries are attacked the would expect the same in return and this a big no no territory for India and hurts our whole we are neutral nonsense.

Even in the current situation quad remains in its current state.

Expecting countries to convert quad into a military alliance without them getting anything out of it is foolish.

The Quad already is a quasi-military alliance. I'm honestly baffled some people don't realize it yet.

Typical diplomatic verbal pussyfooting is irrelevant. What do you think it is when militaries start exercising together in a particular context, focus on improving cooperation/interoperability along w/ intel sharing, and sign countless logistics/base sharing agreements; all while launching a collaborative effort to decouple economies w/ China and wean away as much of their local production as possible?

Also, it would be beyond idiotic for India *not to* seize the opportunity if China is embroiled in a military conflict with other countries - that's India's best chance to beat the Chinese and grab back some territory/strike a permanent settlement.

 

[Knowitall]

We are holding military exercises and signing logistical agreements.

That is a military alliance.

No it is not.

We hold military exercises even with russia and china.

We have logistical agreements with a lot of countries US france and are almost done with russia too.

All these are mutually exclusive things.

A military alliance is an agreement where nations sign an agreement to help each other against a certain enemy.

Until and unless an agreement like this is in place one cannot call it a military alliance.