India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Knowitall]

And this is what the cheenese want,They want us to make the first move i.e by shooting first.But We have to play it smart,Before shooting we should do the same and occupy their land.Then Fortify that area.Then use these lands as bargaining chips.

The time for occupying their land is over they have now reinforced their own borders and we cannot capture any land to use as bargaing chip anymore.

As far as this is what chinese want.

Fuck it

If they want war we'll give them war.

India has both strategic reasons ans the support if International community if we are to take action against china.

So nothing to worry on that front.

 

[UZI™️]

 

[Assassin 2.0]

It would be a strategic gain, mainly because of the nuclear missiles in Aksai Chin and Tibet. The Xinjiang-Uyghur independence angle is more for the "moral" reason for war, and the rare earth elements that are mined in Aksai Chin are worth more than their weight in gold, so that fulfills the commercial reason. In any case, it's not likely that India will be "occupying" Aksai Chin anytime soon, so why not let the two bullies fight it out? It would be Kuwait getting Iraq out of its oil fields by using US all over again.

Let's see.
India signs away Askai chin to Americans on lease.
But it would still require thousands/lakhs of American life's to take over that land does American population have appetite to fight a war in some far away land of himalayas?

 

[UZI™️]

The time for occupying their land is over they have now reinforced their own borders and we cannot capture any land to use as bargaing chip anymore.

As far as this is what chinese want.

Fuck it

If they want war we'll give them war.

India has both strategic reasons ans the support if International community if we are to take action against china.

So nothing to worry on that front.

True that,but we need Russia to remain neutral in case India and allies decide to fight together against China.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

And this is what the cheenese want,They want us to make the first move i.e by shooting first.But We have to play it smart,Before shooting we should do the same and occupy their land.Then Fortify that area.Then use these lands as bargaining chips.

Yeah, I see your point. But it's been too long like this. PLA isn't moving because they need a face saver and GOI isn't providing one. And even if we do fire the first shot it will matter nothing because this standoff and clash thing has already been too much screamed in the world stage.

 

[UZI™️]

Yeah, I see your point. But it's been too long like this. PLA isn't moving because they need a face saver and GOI isn't providing one. And even if we do fire the first shot it will matter nothing because this standoff and clash thing has already been too much screamed in the world stage.

Indeed,This time GOI seems not in a mood to provide face saving moment to these Bat Piss drinkers.Ab ek baar inki esi gand todo ke in future they never ever try to do their usual gandmasti.

 

[johnq]

Let's see.
India signs away Askai chin to Americans on lease.
But it would still require thousands/lakhs of American life's to take over that land does American population have appetite to fight a war in some far away land of himalayas?

I doubt they would do it now, due to Covid and its economic impact. But I do see a major increase in anger against China, and my guess is that it will eventually boil over. As far as the loss of lives, I think a couple of thousand cruise missile and stealth bomber attacks will likely keep it minimized. But I suspect that a US-China war is coming regardless.

 

[scatterStorm]

If we can blockade the Chinese from using the Malacca Strait, we can do the same to the Chinese using the Kra Canal too as an alternative route. It is far closer to the Andamans and is thus well dominated by us.

View attachment 57137

A possible solution, however what I am seeing as a big picture is that, they want to open multiple fronts at sea as well. They want us to play cat and mouse, always be on guard so that our military hardware uses resources actively.

Recent attack on gas pipelines in Syria suggest, that somebody is trying to sabotage the Oil & Gas supply lines. PRC forces have stockpiled oil and gas already I presume.

 

[scatterStorm]

Well USA is printing a lot of money. Most of this money is electronic nowadays, it is like adding zeroes on a computer.

Though it seems you can add any number of zeroes and the world will continue to honour USD; such a theory is not supported either by economics or history. Eventually depreciation of USD will take over as the main theme.

Agreed, any form of currency if injected in large numbers, will eventually result into hyperinflation. Hyperinflation is bad for any economy. However, you can curb it by opening doors for sales, and the only big sales is military's sales.

LM had done a deal of 62Billion, another deals to Taiwan is also done for F16s and now its gonna be us.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I doubt they would do it now, due to Covid and its economic impact. But I do see a major increase in anger against China, and my guess is that it will eventually boil over. As far as the loss of lives, I think a couple of thousand cruise missile and stealth bomber attacks will likely keep it minimized. But I suspect that a US-China war is coming regardless.

What about india? It will be our cities which will get destroyed then in Chinese retaliation it will be ladakhi people and north eastern state's which will be destroyed.

Chinese to have high number of cruise missiles anf for them their is no economic infrastructure loss in Tibet. But for india north eastern state's hold great value. So from our prospective if chinese start bombing our big cities we need to bomb back Chinese heartland too.

So if we invite Americans to start assault on askai chin it should not be limited to just cruise missiles runs and bombings missions to keep loss of life low for Americans meanwhile india gets banged up.

And still after facing these huge Losses we would not have sovereign control on that land.

I would say if we are ready for some mass destruction then leave Americans we ourselves can win away askai chin but that will happen with a cost.

And those who think that Chinese will just welcome Americans with Chinese tea and will back out of fear don't live in reality.

 

[johnq]

What about india? It will be our cities which will get destroyed then in Chinese retaliation it will be ladakhi people and north eastern state's which will be destroyed.

Chinese to have high number of cruise missiles anf for them their is no economic infrastructure loss in Tibet. But for india north eastern state's hold great value. So from our prospective if chinese start bombing our big cities we need to bomb back Chinese heartland too.

So if we invite Americans to start assault on askai chin it should not be limited to just cruise missiles runs and bombings missions to keep loss of life low for Americans meanwhile india gets banged up.

And still after facing these huge Losses we would not have sovereign control on that land.

I would say if we are ready for some mass destruction then leave Americans we ourselves can win away askai chin but that will happen with a cost.

And those who think that Chinese will just welcome Americans with Chinese tea and will back out of fear don't live in reality.

If US enters full scale war, then the game completely changes. First, the US would take out all Chinese satellites, which would make all Chinese missiles, cruise and ballistic, lose their accuracy; as these missiles are guided by Chinese satellites. All Chinese command and control centers would also be hit. Here is the sad truth: If India doesn't fight now, next time the Chinese will park their soldiers in Leh. Which means that war, with all of its casualties, is inevitable for India, unless it gives up Ladakh to China. All I am suggesting is to rope in the US for its technological edge. I think if the US and India coordinate and fight the Chinese together, then India and US can come out on top.

 

[cereal killer]

What about india? It will be our cities which will get destroyed then in Chinese retaliation it will be ladakhi people and north eastern state's which will be destroyed.

Chinese to have high number of cruise missiles anf for them their is no economic infrastructure loss in Tibet. But for india north eastern state's hold great value. So from our prospective if chinese start bombing our big cities we need to bomb back Chinese heartland too.

So if we invite Americans to start assault on askai chin it should not be limited to just cruise missiles runs and bombings missions to keep loss of life low for Americans meanwhile india gets banged up.

And still after facing these huge Losses we would not have sovereign control on that land.

I would say if we are ready for some mass destruction then leave Americans we ourselves can win away askai chin but that will happen with a cost.

And those who think that Chinese will just welcome Americans with Chinese tea and will back out of fear don't live in reality.

Why are we even thinking anything remotely close to this will happen? Americans ain't coming to Aksai Chin to fight our war, to lose their men. Why would India lease its own land in the first place? This theory is similar to boots on ground thing

 

[Flying Dagger]

See, the big issue I have with Russian AAMs is actual performance vs advertised performance, both in terms of range as well as the ability to perform in a heavy ECCM environment e.g. will the R-37M actually hit the AWACSs or will it be defeated by ECCMs from the AWACSs which has many more KWs of jamming power vs a fighter with a pod. IMO Russian AAMs were on par with Western AAMs till the 1990s. However, since then the US and France have pulled away decisively. You have to also consider the offensive and defensive air doctrines of the two sides to consider where they are spending their money and where they are superior. The West has an expeditionary/offensive doctrine hence fighter aircraft, stealth and PGMs integrated with fighters. For Russia expeditionary warfare is new and limited e.g in Syria the total number of Russian Airforce fighters deployed were never more than 20, offensive strikes were via cruise missiles mainly launched from ships in the Black Sea. Defensive doctrine is centered around SAM systems like the S-300/400/500. Probably the first theater we will see how truly effective Russian AAMs are in large scale use is in India, either India vs Pakistan or India vs China. So to my mind the jury is still out on Russian AAMs.

To use a simple analogy, if I want to have vada sambar, will I go to a North Indian dhaba which may offer the dish or will I prefer to to go my local udupi restaurant. Who is likely to make it better.

Doesn't matter whether you like vada paav or vada sambhar.

1. R-73 knocked down a F-16 last year for IAF. Performance vs advertisement?

2. Russia have R-74 as well as K-74m2 now depending on price you pay but still cheaper then MICA.

450 Mica costed 1.25 bn dollars around in 2011 while for 700 mn we are buying 1000+ R-73/74 R-77-1 R-27 missiles. In a war scenario there is a huge advantage of this price diff.

Let's be honest all bvr missile won't be hitting the target so we will need to release more missile to maximise chances of getting more hit.

A 2-2.5 mn dollar missile for the job ? Well unless it's Meteor with 70km N
EZ don'tmake sense.

R-37 m is an outdated missile they already got Novator as replacement and later a ramjet version. Theoretically everything can be jammed by an Awacs so aren't they invincible then ? Lol

Anyway it is only russia which would help us to develop a Brahmos or Astra or SFDR. We are infact banking on these projects since the scientists and planners aren't eyewashed by fancy french wines.

Russia is indeed behind west in many dept but they offer us the latest with less price while west hold on to the critical stuff . You can mate any Russian missile with Tejas they are more than happy to do so.

 

[Tuco]

Since @utubekhiladi is not doing it anymore, Deescalation hogaya kya?

 

[johnq]

Why are we even thinking anything remotely close to this will happen? Americans ain't coming to Aksai Chin to fight our war, to lose their men. Why would India lease its own land in the first place? This theory is similar to boots on ground thing

India doesn't need American boots on the ground. But it certainly doesn't hurt if US destroys Chinese satellites, AWACS, missiles and command and control centers using its air force, navy and space force assets.

 

[Tuco]

India doesn't need American boots on the ground. But it certainly doesn't hurt if US destroys Chinese satellites, AWACS, missiles and command and control centers using its air force, navy and space force assets.

Why will US do that, until and unless Chinks attack them directly. At most we can expect intelligence and material support, even this is a suspect.

 

[Flying Dagger]

What about india? It will be our cities which will get destroyed then in Chinese retaliation it will be ladakhi people and north eastern state's which will be destroyed.

Chinese to have high number of cruise missiles anf for them their is no economic infrastructure loss in Tibet. But for india north eastern state's hold great value. So from our prospective if chinese start bombing our big cities we need to bomb back Chinese heartland too.

So if we invite Americans to start assault on askai chin it should not be limited to just cruise missiles runs and bombings missions to keep loss of life low for Americans meanwhile india gets banged up.

And still after facing these huge Losses we would not have sovereign control on that land.

I would say if we are ready for some mass destruction then leave Americans we ourselves can win away askai chin but that will happen with a cost.

And those who think that Chinese will just welcome Americans with Chinese tea and will back out of fear don't live in reality.

Actually if USA get in for bombing and launching cruise missiles at them that will make sure Porks won't enter the war. So a Plus..

Second USA taking on bombing mission also means they will take down their communication and military spy satellites if war escalates. Provide us aerial superiority. More important an enormous supply chain for weapon that we will be able to bank on.

And On the ground we do have men to take care of chinks .

But truth is we don't have any strategic deal with USA . They themselves aren't in mood to go for another war specially China they'll avoid.

So better we plan with India alone. If they jump in its a bonus.

 

[Jay99]

 

[cereal killer]

India doesn't need American boots on the ground. But it certainly doesn't hurt if US destroys Chinese satellites, AWACS, missiles and command and control centers using its air force, navy and space force assets.

Lol why would US do that? They will likely support us & provide us Arms & ammo other than that they will do nothing. We don't have a NATO type alliance with them. If China attacks Taiwan then we will see US destroying Chinese assests on eastern seashore.
US will likely help us to keep Pakistan out of the equation in case war breaks out.

 

[johnq]

Why will US do that, until and unless Chinks attack them directly. At most we can expect intelligence and material support, even this is a suspect.

China already attacked the US directly through its virus. I understand India's suspicion of the US; all I can say is that a lot of people in the US are very angry at China. And people higher up the chain who know the truth about Covid being a Chinese biological weapon will eventually want China to pay. I believe the US, India, and many other countries will eventually coordinate to take China down.