India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[nick_indian]

Okay, so when does the "statute of limitations" expire on blaming Congress?

At some point the tendency to go "Look Congress!", Or "Neheru!" Has to stop, yes? Or terming everything as Modi bashing when it is Modi in power, not Congress?

What is the time? 10 years? 20? Or are we demanding full 70 years now before we can blame the present govt for problems in present?

People are being asked why they haven't asked Congress the same question despite them voting in BJP last two years: something the generations actually old enough to see '62, 2000s as voting adults failed to do.

Modi is currently in power, who will we ask and criticise? Congress? Should we also give the praise for Ram Mandir to them too?

Ridiculous. They have been in power for six years. Might have been more prepared if didnt spend half that time doing friendship trials with Palatal. Pakistan and China.

Yes, everyone gets it. Neheru did this, Neheru did that. He and Congress were terrible. But that argument isn't going to thwart our enemies.

This is a very courageous thing to say on this forum.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Diego Garcia- B2 deployed in IOR.

US deploys nuclear-capable stealth bombers to Indian Ocean airbase

Three B-2A Spirit bombers sent to Diego Garcia in British Indian Ocean Territory for the first time since 2016.

www.google.com

While this could be a sort of sending-a-message to a particular nation in Asia, in the long term, it would not help Indian interests.

But this is something I expected to happen. Especially if there are indications of a larger Chinese attack. This is the extent to which the GOI would have wanted support from the US. Not boots on ground.

 

[nick_indian]

Diego Garcia- B2 deployed in IOR.

US deploys nuclear-capable stealth bombers to Indian Ocean airbase

Three B-2A Spirit bombers sent to Diego Garcia in British Indian Ocean Territory for the first time since 2016.

www.google.com

While this could be a sort of sending-a-message to a particular nation in Asia, in the long term, it would not help Indian interests.

But this is something I expected to happen. Especially if there are indications of a larger Chinese attack. This is the extent to which the GOI would have wanted support from the US. Not boots on ground.

Why do you say the bold part ?

 

[Sridhar_TN]

The air around on this thread is already grim.
Please don't give the people any harder a time.

The M1 abrams has the most stabilized gun turret in the world. Us army spent at least a billion dollars for the gun stabilization program way back in early 2000s. I’ve personally spoken to a BAE systems engineer who worked on that program.

The Chinese tanks do not come close to the T90s. T90s have a far more stabilized turret systems than most counterparts. Again said by the same systems guy. they benchmark a lot of tanks from around the world.

Anybody in this forum stating that the Chinese tanks are state of the art, please take it with an enormous hand full of salt and a bucket of castor oil. The Arjuns can handle them and by no means are they inferior to them functionality wise.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Why do you say the bold part ?

It’s basic human nature. Why would you want US stealth bombers anywhere close to your hinterland when there is no need for them to be there geographically as they belong in the other side of the world.
The same way, GOI has been extremely voiceferous of US drones conducting strikes in western Pakistan. GOI does not want any such presence anywhere close to the hindukush. There is no need/business for them to be there.

Diego Garcia has been a friction point for India and the US for a number of years. But having said that, at this point in time, given the Chinese threat, they are very well needed.

 

[nick_indian]

Diego Garcia has been a friction point for India and the US for a number of years. But having said that, at this point in time, given the Chinese threat, they are very well needed.

Yes and in the foreseeable future I don't see Diego Garcia being a problem for India or the Chinese threat going away.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Yes and in the foreseeable future I don't see Diego Garcia being a problem for India or the Chinese threat going away.

Lot of things can change in the foreseeable future.

The Chinese threat goes away once they stop being a threat. How is that done? With a military move.

 

[nick_indian]

Lot of things can change in the foreseeable future.

The Chinese threat goes away once they stop being a threat. How is that done? With a military move.

Sounds like a plan.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Sounds like a plan.

It’s the best plan there is.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Use to love Jackie Chan as a kid. Lost all respect. What a traitor and sellout.

Could be. Or what if there’s a guy with a gun to his balls. Like a real Fredrick zoller.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

My Dear Sir,
Such Despondency arises from not understanding an entire issue in an overall perspective.
China has secured its core national interest in Aksaichin in 1962 through military aggression. Thereafter China has managed a peaceful regime structure in Tibet and on LAC by intimidation and carefully crafted diplomacy of Peace and Tranquility at a very low cost.

Now after 60 years having strengthened its national power, reorganising and modernizing the military, China wants to announce to the world that it is the new overlord. Its knocking on the doors of White House that Xi wants to enters.

Can there be a better way of doing that than attacking its largest and most powerful neighbor India - crushing and humiliating the second largest population in the world, its only competitor in South and East Asia? The same purpose can not be achieved by capturing Vietnam or the Philippines or Myanmar, China can do that overnight but the same purpose will not be achieved.

That is why you find three Chinese divisions lined up on LAC in Ladakh. Ladakh is a place that can effectively neutralize US and Western Technologies and direct intervention prospects. Ladakh is sandwiched between Pakistan and China. Ladakh enures the security of Chines billion-dollar investment in BRI and CPEC. Thus the Chinese have demolished Indian diplomatic edifice of appeasing China in all manners including demilitarising the LAC.

China is intent and hell-bent on military conflict. That is why it has come to Aksaichin with "Gaja Baaja" and undertaking all provocative actions such as Galwan, Pengang Tso and Depsang.

Should India join in and fulfill China's aims? No one can be happier than China and Pakistan with that. The provocation is coming from Nepal, Bhutan, Congress, Communists, Left, Liberals and Islamists in the same manner and with same purpose. Should Modi fulfill their desire?

The only option left with India is not to initiate any War but stop China on its tracks. Hold them, prepare and gain time for enhancing capabilities to defend itself in these difficult times and situations. It it comes to worst 0 India should be able to defend itself and ensure its sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Be a Rambo when you are capable of being one unlike the fanboys of LCH or Arjun who are running a roit with claims to throw out Chinese from Ladakh based on two LSP unarmed LCH flying between Thoise and Ladakh for a joy ride. If China attacks face them,,, If they do not, it is of no use providing them an opportunity..

You see this is where you have not understood the intentions of some of the members in this forum again. Yes, it is foolish to start war now, at this time.

But, inducting the LCH as well in large numbers is part of the ramping up process. One does not have enough money to keep buying more apaches at a moments notice. We buy the apaches when we can. Until then if the LCH can do the job, then it will do the job. If the LCH is not up for it, then we look for other means. It’s as simple as that. There are no fanboys here. At least not from me. There are only oppportunists who see the opportunity and usefulness from something that is available and cheap.


That being said, if the IA today starts an offensive into Aksai chin, what are the chances of a win? By win, I mean, not just takeover of Ladakh, but Aksai chin? Was t this shah’s and modi’s plan all along?

What would the neighbor to the west do? They would jump at an opportunity to attack. Now, can they be taken as well? What is the strategic pacts that we signed with the US for so long getting us? I just posted something a while back today. 3 US B2 stealth bombers have been stationed at Diego Garcia. Today. These are nuclear capable bombers that penetrate air defenses and dropping 40 tons of bombers at a time. Now can the US put a leash on the Pakis while there is an offensive on the chinks.
And most of all, why haven’t the chinks attacked us yet? They might as well roll into Kashmir if they are that capable.

Patience is virtue. Biding our time. Equipping and making do with what we have. Modi is a class act. He will not show his hand. GOI will not forget Oli’s transgression. He is making it personal with his claims on Ram. That’s a personal attack on modi and the BJP. Of course there is no second guesses as to whom this is really coming from. India and modi are being targeted from all fronts. This is nothing new. Soon, you will hear some thing from Sri Lanka. The PM there has a history of ties to the chinks. This is also the time where OFB has decided to go on a strike. This is a clear pircture of the extent of the attack.

 

[CuriousIndian]

A lot of people here keep suggesting that winter could be when the action happens, is there a reason other than conducive weather conditions?

While that's a big factor, isn't timely action more important? I feel India lost the initiative when they decided talks were the way to go after Galwan and they gave China a clean chit when Modi claimed they never entered our territory. (he's yet to call out China by name, BTW).

I feel it's one of the 2 things why India is not going for an aggressive action. Either the advisors have warned Modi, a war will tank Indian economy beyond repair, dooming BJPs political future.

or

World powers have told India to restrain themselves for now or face China alone.

Otherwise our 'talk' approach seems to be going no where.

 

[garg_bharat]

A lot of people here keep suggesting that winter could be when the action happens, is there a reason other than conducive weather conditions?

While that's a big factor, isn't timely action more important? I feel India lost the initiative when they decided talks were the way to go after Galwan and they gave China a clean chit when Modi claimed they never entered our territory. (he's yet to call out China by name, BTW).

I feel it's one of the 2 things why India is not going for an aggressive action. Either the advisors have warned Modi, a war will tank Indian economy beyond repair, dooming BJPs political future.

or

World powers have told India to restrain themselves for now or face China alone.

Otherwise our 'talk' approach seems to be going no where.

Even events wait for proper time. War with China has a high probability; and technically it can happen anytime now. However exact timing is hard to predict as neither India nor China would want to rush into a big war.

 

[Synergy]

Why do I feel I have read this post before ?

Nehru did nothing but stupidity , killed our soldiers and gave Tibet and Region of J&K to China.

"They" weren't efficient ? Who they you are talking abt ?

That moron sent soldier ahead without ration supply without firepower didn't planned or gave heed to army planners but followed his stupid egoistic moves.

you have read a part of this before and that is "at least Nehru tried" and if I'm not wrong, it's gonna be next political slogan.

and yes, Nehru wasn't efficient enough. and he had some members in his team who were also inefficient like Mr Mullik etc.

sending troops without required gears/rations etc and not using AF etc alongwith wrong foreign policy and diplomatic thinking are examples of inefficiency.

there is a famous quote of Machiavelli "it's better to act and repent than not to act and regret" but also that act should be well thought of.

 

[Synergy]

Ok, let’s go with your line of thinking.

How do you plan to sit on their (our) land, without connectivity?

Keep in mind, up until a few years ago it took two weeks to reach some parts of LAC while today it takes a day. can troops be deployed in forward locations without supply routes?

and is it the case that Indian troops can walk into the territory beyond LAC when the adversary is on high alert and forward deployed in all sectors.

And as far as soldiers killed, response was given then and there. ball was in PLA’s court, and they didn’t respond in kind or escalate since.

Edit: in my opinion the biggest take away from this episode is that CCP is on everybody’s mind, and this is not just in India but across the world. Indian security establishment can no longer ignore the threat of PLA. it is front and centre.

Sir, afaik, when they entered Galwan, Pangon Tso, Depsang etc there weren't much of infra except some roads at Pangong Tso. at first they settled there and then built infra. though as a country we may not be at par with them in civil engineering, but I don't think we don't have the capacity to build any/some road/roads in very short time if we have the will.

leaving every other thing aside, many well respected Generals have said we can do the same. I'm not educated and informed enough, but I think those Generals are well aware of what they are talking about and that is also feasible else they wouldn't have hinted/suggested that.

and Sir why those bravehearts being martyrd at Galwan? to save every inch of our country from invaders. I don't see this as they killed this and we killed that. now enemy is sitting at f4 etc. now you decided if their martyrdom has yielded anything or has gone in vain.

 

[Synergy]

China is aiding Pak, using Nepal, raising J&K issue to UN etc and we are blabbering multipolar-bipolar, neighbours...

ok... good... great...

 

[Blue Water Navy]

Diego Garcia- B2 deployed in IOR.

US deploys nuclear-capable stealth bombers to Indian Ocean airbase

Three B-2A Spirit bombers sent to Diego Garcia in British Indian Ocean Territory for the first time since 2016.

www.google.com

While this could be a sort of sending-a-message to a particular nation in Asia, in the long term, it would not help Indian interests.

But this is something I expected to happen. Especially if there are indications of a larger Chinese attack. This is the extent to which the GOI would have wanted support from the US. Not boots on ground.

WTF "British Indian Ocean Territory"... Am I the only one noticing it???

 

[Sanglamorre]

WTF "British Indian Ocean Territory"... Am I the only one noticing it???

What will you call it else?

French ones are French Indian Ocean Territory or French overseas territory. It's just means British territory in Indian Ocean.

 

[tarunraju]

Diego Garcia- B2 deployed in IOR.

US deploys nuclear-capable stealth bombers to Indian Ocean airbase

Three B-2A Spirit bombers sent to Diego Garcia in British Indian Ocean Territory for the first time since 2016.

www.google.com

While this could be a sort of sending-a-message to a particular nation in Asia, in the long term, it would not help Indian interests.

But this is something I expected to happen. Especially if there are indications of a larger Chinese attack. This is the extent to which the GOI would have wanted support from the US. Not boots on ground.

This is good for India. B-2s at Diego Garcia send a message to China and Pakistan that the US is within striking distance, and it will guarantee peace in South Asia. It's the next best thing to putting these bombers in some place like Hindon (which would have sparked randi-rona by Indian opposition NAMards). I'm sure India was kept in the loop with this deployment.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

This is good for India. B-2s at Diego Garcia send a message to China and Pakistan that the US is within striking distance, and it will guarantee peace in South Asia. It's the next best thing to putting these bombers in some place like Hindon (which would have started randi-rona by Indian opposition NAMards). I'm sure India was kept in the loop with this deployment.

In a India-China border war.. if the US wants to pitch in, these bombers can fly from Diego Garcia on a bombing raid to ladakh and back, atmost with one aerial refueling..