India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bhadra

New Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,756
Country flag
My question is: Does India ( talking about government policy here and not local level action ) have a red line, which when crossed, India will use force against China, to force them to vacate the occupied territory.. ?
Hypothetical scenario: 50 PLA soldiers sit on the DSDBO road, in a surprise move. Do we arrest them, by overpowering them ? Or we negotiate and wait for them to leave ? Are there any policy guidelines ?
Why should you know India's "Red Line" when the govt has not defined and declared it... It is something like LAC which is not being defined but being practiced. Both sides have been conveying their LAC for last sixty years.

Red Lines are similarly conveyed. India Army did convey their Red Lines at Doklam and Galwan... Did not they... ??? Did not Modi... ?? Surgical Strike was also conveying a Red Line and not killing a few hundred dirty beards..

At Depsang and Pangang Tso all governments so far have not conveyed any Red Line to the Chinese. MMS allowed Chinese inside Depsang and Chumar for months together. National Security managers did not do anything when the Chinese constructed a road in Penang Tso in 1999 and afterward. I am sure the likes of Shukla and Panag know that well.

And now everyone wants Modi to suddenly show Red Lines in corona times. economic crisis and when Modi is barely trying to persuade OFB to proceed beyond six guns in two and a half years... Won't he ask if MEA and Army were hoodwinking him and leading him onto a deep Gorge ??

Winning a war is no guarantee of winning elections but people's welfare is which will be badly compromised if there is a war ..

Moreover, Red Lines are not conveyed on DFI....
 

Bhadra

New Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,756
Country flag
Okay, so when does the "statute of limitations" expire on blaming Congress?

At some point the tendency to go "Look Congress!", Or "Neheru!" Has to stop, yes? Or terming everything as Modi bashing when it is Modi in power, not Congress?

What is the time? 10 years? 20? Or are we demanding full 70 years now before we can blame the present govt for problems in present?

People are being asked why they haven't asked Congress the same question despite them voting in BJP last two years: something the generations actually old enough to see '62, 2000s as voting adults failed to do.

Modi is currently in power, who will we ask and criticise? Congress? Should we also give the praise for Ram Mandir to them too?

Ridiculous. They have been in power for six years. Might have been more prepared if didnt spend half that time doing friendship trials with Palatal. Pakistan and China.

Yes, everyone gets it. Neheru did this, Neheru did that. He and Congress were terrible. But that argument isn't going to thwart our enemies.
No. Congress-ruled the country for sixty years. The culture of Governance and approach to looking and managing National Security which has led to the present Fiasco is solely their contribution. The lethargic and self-centered bureaucratic and leftist political culture that deliberately neglected Defence Preparedness, Defence Production, Modernisation of Defense forces and promotion of national spirit is all the gift of Congress. The Special gift of Congress has been abject appeasement of China verging on to surrender. MEA could have not traversed on that path without political patronage.

Modi on the other hand has been doing his best to improve National Security structures and resources. Today Nationalism is in peoples hands. Byt six years is not good enough to sort out a JS in MEA leave aside the entire structure. Everthing takes time... If DRDO can take sixty years on Anti tank Missile projects without a sucess so far .. what is sixty years. If perreneial ammunition deficiency can stop the Indian Army from taking action against Pakistan during OP Parakram, tell me what has changed? Same MEA, Same IAS, same MoD. Same OFB, Same DRDO... who and what has changed...

Congress culture is still the Con.... Modi kya LAC Par Khada ho Jai... He can do that... and he did that..

INDIA NEEDS A SECOND FREEDOM.... FREEDOM FROM CONGRESS CULTURE
 
Last edited:

Blue Water Navy

Zeroed
New Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
1,849
Likes
9,392
Country flag
@Bhadra Indeed.

@Sanglamorre The thing is that, the void that Congress created in the last 70 years cannot be filled in 6 or even 10 years or so. After all, its defense systems and policies we are talking about here. Yeah, policies can be changed within a couple of months or years. But the defense systems void that has been created by congress as* licking babus, cannot be filled in this short time. Given all the facts Modi is doing a decent job or some may say 'atleast trying to do'.
 
Last edited:

utubekhiladi

The Preacher
New Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
4,768
Likes
10,311
Country flag

ArgonPrime

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
1,344
Likes
2,024
Country flag
Don't think anyone is saying that Indian equipment is state of the art but it is important to remove the veneer of invincibility that anyone might be under the impression of about the Chinese.
Which the twitter guy failed to achieve quite miserably.
 

cereal killer

New Member
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
2,146
Likes
8,416
Country flag
So we are back on Blaming Nehru. This is getting frustrating now. Is he is supposed to camouflage our current shortcomings? 1962 is a dark chapter in history that we need to learn from. Nehru did not gave away Aksai Chin. We lost the battle fair & square albeit due to his poor policies that's we all agree on. To the victor goes the spoils. China wanted it & they got it.
We have to think that we can't afford any loss of land now. Whoever is in charge of the GOI is accountable to this.
 

Flying Dagger

New Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
3,583
Likes
9,444
Country flag
Okay, so when does the "statute of limitations" expire on blaming Congress?

At some point the tendency to go "Look Congress!", Or "Neheru!" Has to stop, yes? Or terming everything as Modi bashing when it is Modi in power, not Congress?

What is the time? 10 years? 20? Or are we demanding full 70 years now before we can blame the present govt for problems in present?

People are being asked why they haven't asked Congress the same question despite them voting in BJP last two years: something the generations actually old enough to see '62, 2000s as voting adults failed to do.

Modi is currently in power, who will we ask and criticise? Congress? Should we also give the praise for Ram Mandir to them too?

Ridiculous. They have been in power for six years. Might have been more prepared if didnt spend half that time doing friendship trials with Palatal. Pakistan and China.

Yes, everyone gets it. Neheru did this, Neheru did that. He and Congress were terrible. But that argument isn't going to thwart our enemies.
Nor does blaming present government which has actually done much better in comparison to congress in last 6 yrs.

Revival of Tejas Project

Mk2 Tedbf ORCA AMCA

Engine Project

Rafale

Assault rifles LMGs

Apache

Romeo's

Howitzers /Artillery guns

OROP

S 400

Etc.

Point is they weren't sleeping but preparing for this since we do expect a war with China.
 

JBH22

New Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
6,554
Likes
18,090
So we are back on Blaming Nehru. This is getting frustrating now. Is he is supposed to camouflage our current shortcomings? 1962 is a dark chapter in history that we need to learn from. Nehru did not gave away Aksai Chin. We lost the battle fair & square albeit due to his poor policies that's we all agree on. To the victor goes the spoils. China wanted it & they got it.
We have to think that we can't afford any loss of land now. Whoever is in charge of the GOI is accountable to this.
UPA priorities was only to get commission on defence deals and you had ak Anthony who wouldn't take any decision. That's the root cause of a lost decade in modernisation.luckily they lost and Modi came, with whatever budget constraints he is doing a bit.
 

A chauhan

"अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l"
New Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
9,533
Likes
22,583
Country flag
Thanks @Bhadra for pointing out that I have seen that for last few days.

Too much shivering is happening here china is this china is that bla bla bla. I just want to ask if china is so mighty, should we just abandoned our land and do a slavery live the goraes forced us to ?

We need to learn that china is just a mirage of Mightness, smash it and you get a china that is afraid. I we gone mad china will cease to exist even if we perish in that case. Common Nibbers get some courage Forces are well prepared. We should not have a ounce of doubt on it. We lose the battle When we think we cant win. War has not started and we are talking like we cant take them off. I am not blaming anyone but should only blame chineses and not vice versa.
Yehi samjha samjha ke mere baal jhad gaye bro :confused1:

But ye jawan inexperienced launde fir se meltdown par aa jate hain. 😁

Defense technologies need time to be developed, mature and inducted; policies take time to be fruitful, but yahan sabko 6 saal me hi sab maal chahiye. One who has not followed LCA program from 90s can not understand how Indian system works, similarly one who has not followed politics from the late 90s can't understand how Indian politics works. But sigh !!
 

A chauhan

"अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l"
New Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
9,533
Likes
22,583
Country flag
UPA priorities was only to get commission on defence deals and you had ak Anthony who wouldn't take any decision. That's the root cause of a lost decade in modernisation.luckily they lost and Modi came, with whatever budget constraints he is doing a bit.
Actually "doing" is not problem for Modi, he can exhibit all round performance, but his real problem is "showing" that he is doing because in this country people vote corrupt and anti-national opposition party for 5₹ increase in train tickets by the ruling party.
 

JBH22

New Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
6,554
Likes
18,090
Actually "doing" is not problem for Modi, he can exhibit all round performance, but his real problem is "showing" that he is doing because in this country people vote corrupt and anti-national opposition party for 5₹ increase in train tickets by the ruling party.
Bottom line is he is doing something chaiwala doing for defence of the country than economist PM.
But to be honest whenever I see how Russians overhauled their army post 2008 with similar budget I feel that defence planners in India do not have the required skill or expertise.
 

Bhurki

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
1,301
Likes
1,765
Bottom line is he is doing something chaiwala doing for defence of the country than economist PM.
But to be honest whenever I see how Russians overhauled their army post 2008 with similar budget I feel that defence planners in India do not have the required skill or expertise.
90% of what you see in Russia is overhauled soviet stuff made in industries that were all established in soviet era. Infact, the problem for them is how to maintain all those industries operational with enough contracts so that they don't have to lay off the workforce.
Creating military gear is a necessity for them rather than just fulfilling its own military needs.
 

JBH22

New Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
6,554
Likes
18,090
90% of what you see in Russia is overhauled soviet stuff made in industries that were all established in soviet era. Infact, the problem for them is how to maintain all those industries operational with enough contracts so that they don't have to lay off the workforce.
Creating military gear is a necessity for them rather than just fulfilling its own military .needs
If we believe that war is using our limited resources optimally then Russia did it best. They know they cannot match US dollar for dollar. They developed credible asymmetric response.
Let us take Indian navy you know that defence budget is tight, you go for scorpene then again issue tender for another new trials for submarines. While logically it would be to continue upgrade and build on acquired expertise for scorpene.

Russians for example developed Gefest targeting system instead of going for costly bomb kits like US, this allows them to save and increase efficiency by using dumb bombs.
 

Assassin 2.0

New Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2019
Messages
6,087
Likes
30,705
Country flag
So we are back on Blaming Nehru. This is getting frustrating now. Is he is supposed to camouflage our current shortcomings? 1962 is a dark chapter in history that we need to learn from. Nehru did not gave away Aksai Chin. We lost the battle fair & square albeit due to his poor policies that's we all agree on. To the victor goes the spoils. China wanted it & they got it.
We have to think that we can't afford any loss of land now. Whoever is in charge of the GOI is accountable to this.
To win the war you have to acknowledge the enemy nehru was high with fat and junkie mao still intelligent than nerhu blinded in the fake friendship . And Nehru literally gave away Tibet then askai chin IA was never mobilized in war fighting way and Nehru great security advisor menon they should be called out at every moment because of their blunders we lost our land dunno in how many decades we will get that back anyway.

Perhaps Nehru could not have reacted militarily when China invaded Tibet in 1950, but since then he had had more than ten years to prepare... Despite repeated warnings... Nehru did very little to address the shortcomings of the army… Nehru was never comfortable with the armed forces… his political indoctrination had… instilled in him a desire to downgrade India’s officer cadre rather than tap their leadership potential... To make matters worse, Nehru... began to develop a deep-seated paranoia about the army.



 

Lancer

Bana
New Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
1,447
Likes
5,876
Country flag
So we are back on Blaming Nehru. This is getting frustrating now. Is he is supposed to camouflage our current shortcomings? 1962 is a dark chapter in history that we need to learn from. Nehru did not gave away Aksai Chin. We lost the battle fair & square albeit due to his poor policies that's we all agree on. To the victor goes the spoils. China wanted it & they got it.
We have to think that we can't afford any loss of land now. Whoever is in charge of the GOI is accountable to this.
*Sigh*

After thoroughly politicizing + compromising the military, basically hollowing it from the inside-out with his pal Krishna Menon.

Disrespecting/pushing out upstanding, quality Generals like Thimayya, and leaving the soldiers on the ground (without any air support - where we had the edge) lacking basic winter clothing and boots, rations/supplies, acclimatization time, ammunition, basic weapons to take on Chinese hordes w/ AK-47's (which our men faced using WW1 Lee Enfields, sticks and stones).

After all that, he told his lapdog Generals like Kaul/Thapar to just "go and throw the Chinese out." Sending our Army on a suicide mission with both hands tied to get slaughtered + shatter the morale of the nation and Armed Forces (which Nehru always secretly wanted to disband anyways).

And some people construe this as "well at least Nehru fought" - Do you people even hear yourselves talking? The same Nehru who "at least fought" also showed no remorse for his actions btw, he was indignant as ever in Parliament, saying that "Not a single blade of grass grew there anyways" - to which a brave Parliamentarian replied that "Panditji not a blade grows on your head either, but we wouldn't give it on a platter to the enemy"

Now when finally a guy comes along who's not hell bent on compromising the forces, after ~60 yrs of cumulative damage to the state of our military, our geopolitical situation and our strategic approach, and has been working on undoing all the fuck ups (including the immediately preceding decade long administration) in what is still only a 6 year long rule - people are mocking and attacking him.

Understand that if today the mainland of India, and its metros + civilian populations haven't seen a significant terror attack in ages, it's b/c of Modi and his team. If Naxals are on their last legs and Northeastern terror groups are on the verge of death - it's b/c of this administration. Ditto for the aggressive drive against terrorism in J&K plus working to remove various structural hurdles like 35A, 370 and cunning/dishonest local parties which were enabling that terrorism. These are all Nehruvian/Gandhian clusterfucks this guy is trying to clean up, while people throw jibes about "when do the mistakes of Congress expire?"

If today we've hit back Pakistan twice after terror attacks (does anyone still remember the emasculated feeling after 26/11?) - including the first airstrike on Pakistan proper since they became a nuclear power, and we can think of future scenarios where we'll hit them even harder, or take back lost territories - it's thanks to this Gvt.

And if today, we've well and truly begun standing up to the Chinese, matching their deployments at dispute sites and working to erase the infrastructure disparity (which AK Antony admitted was intentional - to prevent Chinese from rolling down the plains lmfao), while increasing involvement and cooperation with countries in the neighborhood (and outside of it) which are also looking to counter China - it's under this Gvt.

And all of this is why China is being so aggressive with us in the first place - there would be no extended standoffs if we simply gave up land like UPA.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it's obviously difficult to stay steady and have faith when most of us are baying for blood - but no matter what, Modi has done a commendable job and he will still be much much better than the Congress which left us saddled with all these legacy issues.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Articles

Top