India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[doreamon]

wtf ... we used to import 4k crore worth of rakhi ??? Is it that technologically sophisticated ....

India-made Rakhis this year cause China losses worth Rs 4,000 crore

On the festival of Rakhi 2020, India has given a huge blow to China-made rakhis causing a massive loss to the tune of Rs 4,000 crores. With this India has broken the myth that it cannot successfully boycott Chinese goods.

zeenews.india.com

Raksha Bandhan 2020: China Suffers Massive Loss of Rs 4,000 Crore This Year; Here's Why

National President of CAIT, BC Bhartia and National General Secretary Praveen Khandelwal said that traders from all over the country will start the China Quit India campaign on August 9.

www.india.com

 

[cereal killer]

I doubt India is talking to Chinese due to internal issues.

India is talking to Chinese to protect last fifty years of peace and so many rounds of dialog.

Of course you may say talk will yield nothing, and I am in the same camp.

However government of a country like ours has to be a little bit more optimistic.

I think an immediate war is unlikely.

Yes I said the same that internal issues are not a big threat as we always keep them under control in times of war.
I also agree that every rational government will try to avoid war as much as it can & we are a rising economy & war indeed is not good for us.
Since Chinese aren't willing to go back from Finger areas. So it is safe to assume we don't have many options left either.

 

[Sehwag213]

wtf ... we used to import 4k crore worth of rakhi ??? Is it that technologically sophisticated ....

India-made Rakhis this year cause China losses worth Rs 4,000 crore

On the festival of Rakhi 2020, India has given a huge blow to China-made rakhis causing a massive loss to the tune of Rs 4,000 crores. With this India has broken the myth that it cannot successfully boycott Chinese goods.

zeenews.india.com

Cheaper so baniya mentality .

 

[Aghore_King]

Ha Bhai, whoever isn't laying on ground licking Modi's feet is a Congressi. Bhai who do you think you're lecturing about Muzzies? I live in Kolkata. Muzzies will always be there. Cowardice aur chai biscuit khilane k liye excuse dhoondna bandh karna chahiye aur seedha seedha bolna chahiye ki ant mein Narendra Neheru nikla.

Each time there will be a "meeting", chai biscuit bolunga. Bar bar bolunga, har bar bolunga.

Did the Modi govt not factor internal enemies before coming to power? That they have to contend with them along with external? What is this stupid excuse?

If China attacks, will you first ask them for time to quell internal then counter? Well, they already did and are sitting pretty in areas. Kya kiya? Chai biscoot na?

This naked adulation of Modi is fine enough, but rather name calling every critic has to stop. Haan, I didn't say anything about Congress back when they were in power. Know why? Didn't even have voting rights. I have chosen and known only one PM in my life.

Log as jate Hain internal enemy excuse leke. Didn't know about the Muslims before taking reigns? What was the plan, if there was an external enemy attacks?

And how the hell does criticising Modi govt automatically mean supporting Congress? Why don't you say it clearly, there's no rebuttal for Modi Govts chai biscuit policy after their strong national security plank other than screaming Congress was worse?

Yes, Congress is worse and terrible but so what? Ye sunke China bhaag Gaya? Aa Modi aaya, Congress Nahi hai Baba bolke Pagong etc vacate ho Gaya?

Ye barren land wala excuse toh Neheru ne bhi Diya. So who is exactly the congressi here, you or me? Pura Ladakh hi toh aisa hai, toh vacate Kar de? Kya fayda, barren land hi toh hai.

Today his own voters like me are criticising his Chai Biscoot policy with Chinese.

Tomorrow opposition will say Chaiwala is serving his masters Chai. What will you do then? Scream at them that they're congressi? Well, they are that openly.

I believe you're frequently visiting Pakistani and Sino defence forums....Stop doing that, reading their regurgitate make only you restless and more impatient about the current standoff.
People getting restless need to understand one thing, a war with China is no kids game at the point as they're the biggest industrial power on earth. It may happen or it won't, i believe we are just waiting for winters and corona situation to die , meanwhile we are stocking up arms and equipments reserve.
Remember Modi kicked them during Doklam, but this time they appears prepared enough, so it would be foolish to jump in a war without enough war plans and preparations.

 

[AmitG]

Reports from India Today magazine stating that the Army has or is in the process of ordering 1 regiment of SprutSD light tanks 45 nos from Russia. Seems a practical decision as an indigenous light tank is years away. Other imported alternatives are much heavier like the 30 tonnes Mobile Protected Firepower program of the US army.

The SprutSD at around < 20 tonnes weight can theoretically be air transported by our C130j and Mi26. Has a powerful 125 mm gun. Disadvantage is thinly armoured.
But we can aquire the Trophy APS system from Israel and install it on the SprutSD. Would offer some degree of protection and additional weight of the Trophy APS system will be manageable at less than 1000kgs.The Israelis have a history of modifying Soviet /Russian weapons and can fit the Trophy APS system on to the SprutSD.

Oh no. We don’t need another tin can. Even the Russians do no not want that light tank. Don’t see what the sprut would bring to the table . With hardly any protection offered, the same firepower can be brought to bear with vehicle mounted Atgms at a lesser cost.

 

[doreamon]

Cheaper so baniya mentality .

But the same baniya now successfully blocking chinese products.. All these initiatives are taken by trader bodies not govt .. so deserve appreciation

 

[Sehwag213]

But the same baniya now successfully blocking chinese products.. All these initiatives are taken by trader bodies not govt .. so deserve appreciation

Yes. This is why decision of IPL is so appalling.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Yes. This is why decision of IPL is so appalling.

20 soldiers ke badle me itna hi milega

 

[AmitG]

We are moving out troops towards border in high numbers that alone says we are preparing for something big than a skirmish.


It's not about historical wrongs or vice versa, but what should be done by us. Being direct neighbor we are most affected by Tibetan occupancy of China. We'll have to deal with it today or tomorrow.

Nope.. moving troops to the border doesn’t mean we are going to attack. Our posture is defensive and we need the extra troops to cover the vast areas. The Chinese on the other hand need lesser troops as their posture is offensive and they can concentrate those troops on 2-3 areas. We on the other hand with a defensive posture have to spread our troops thin even if they are in greater no.

A defensive posture just won’t work against an enemy like the Chinese. They will make you dance and play catch-up. To counter them you need to go on the offensive. If not a full fledged border skirmish then you should at least be willing to take the game into their areas and go squat on their territory.

Just sometime back there was a tv debate where there was a general who was in charge of Depsang when the Chinese came in and occupied Indian territory in 2013, who said India got the Chinese to vacate because the Indian army went and squatted on territory the Chinese thought of as theirs. I hope the Indian army has been given the go ahead to do the same in the current situation. If not it’s probably to late and a very stupid decision not to have done that. The mountain strike corps was supposed to be for just such a purpose.

 

[garg_bharat]

We are moving out troops towards border in high numbers that alone says we are preparing for something big than a skirmish.


It's not about historical wrongs or vice versa, but what should be done by us. Being direct neighbor we are most affected by Tibetan occupancy of China. We'll have to deal with it today or tomorrow.

Tibet is not our issue alone. Being a neighbour does not mean we should go to war over it.

However we have a claim over Ladakh and Aksai Chin and that is the area we can fight for.

But be ready for a bloody fight and huge losses.

 

[A chauhan]

Nope.. moving troops to the border doesn’t mean we are going to attack. Our posture is defensive and we need the extra troops to cover the vast areas. The Chinese on the other hand need lesser troops as their posture is offensive and they can concentrate those troops on 2-3 areas. We on the other hand with a defensive posture have to spread our troops thin even if they are in greater no.

A defensive posture just won’t work against an enemy like the Chinese. They will make you dance and play catch-up. To counter them you need to go on the offensive. If not a full fledged border skirmish then you should at least be willing to take the game into their areas and go squat on their territory.

Just sometime back there was a tv debate where there was a general who was in charge of Depsang when the Chinese came in and occupied Indian territory in 2013, who said India got the Chinese to vacate because the Indian army went and squatted on territory the Chinese thought of as theirs. I hope the Indian army has been given the go ahead to do the same in the current situation. If not it’s probably to late and a very stupid decision not to have done that. The mountain strike corps was supposed to be for just such a purpose.

What happens in the future is in the womb of future, the only thing we can say for sure is that IA isn't totally unprepared, troop movement can be seen as preparation of war (offense and defence both are war).

 

[AmitG]

First of all supporting Modi is fine but Nation is above everyone. This is not Modi's India.. This country belongs to every Indian who loves his motherland. This excuse of internal conflict is such a lame excuse, We've fought many wars since independence & we've been prepared for this 0.5 front every time. If you are scared with dudes like Owaisi then no one can help you. The most prominent among 0.5 front is Naxals but our reserve troops are there to handle them. Muslims can't do shit.
And yes I agree this barren land thinking has to go away otherwise there is no difference in following Modi or Nehru.

Sigh... people go on about...this one was responsible for this so many years ago and that one was responsible for that yesterday. Everyone looses sight of what is happening today or just don’t want to acknowledge what is happening today.Who”s responsibility is it to deal with what’s happening today? Ostriches with their head in the sand is the right word. All they can come up with is name calling. Isn’t loyalty supposed to be to your country and not to a particular party or individual?

As someone was pointing out , we live in a democracy and it is every Indians right to question the government on the handling of the situation as they are the ones who’s responsibility it is. We are not a tinpot dictatorship like China who’s leadership cannot be questioned by their people. Remember that history shows that democracies have flourished while dictatorships may seem strong for a moment but they always fade away.

 

[ezsasa]

Bringing the discussion back from political to apolitical side of things.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

So these will be anti-tank the pillboxes for DBO... one RPG shot pillboxes..

Trophy APS.. might help Sprut ward off a couple of RPG shots..

 

[DownWithCCP]

Border talks updates

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Oh no. We don’t need another tin can. Even the Russians do no not want that light tank. Don’t see what the sprut would bring to the table . With hardly any protection offered, the same firepower can be brought to bear with vehicle mounted Atgms at a lesser cost.

Sprut can fire APFSDS, HE-Frag, HEAT rounds which are way cheaper than modern ATGMs. Battle proven trophy APS might give it some survivability against enemy ATGMs.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Lagta hai maine dukhti rag pakad li. You are trolling for a very long time in this thread. Every second post by you is having Chai Biscuit.


People like you are creating environment to lose Modi govt, which is equivalent to be defeated by internal enemies, this is what every Pakistani and Chinese wants/dreams and craves for. This also might be the reason very well behind this aggression, Congress also has a secret agreement with CCP.



Do you understand and have you heard a word "diplomacy" ? Is it equal to Chai biscuit. Talking with enemy is Chai Biscuit ? Seriously ?


This is not naked but well reasoned and considered opinion on Modi, who has worked so hard for Art. 370. Should I call your criticism a blind/mal-informed one ?


So internal enemies are excuse ? please continue to live in lalaland of Bengal. Once Modi/BJP gone Mamta didi will save you and your family from Jihad I am sure. Good luck for that.


Criticizing Modi govt is not equal to being a congressi, but undue/blind/unaware/clueless criticism is a prime characteristic of a Congress supporter.



No one is saying Congress is worse because it's so without even being said. Did I say that China bhag gya Modi ko dekh ke ? Can you tell me when did the last time IA kill Chinese soldiers in such a large number ? Are you sure about PLA positions on LAC jo puch rahe ho ki Pangong khali hua ki nahi ? Tumko Chai Biscuit khane bula kar bataye hain kya ki China Pangong pe kabza kar liya hai ?



Ye excuse nahi hai mr. It is a barren land, and no one here is asking to vacate it, for your information Pura Laddakh hamare kabze me hai hi nahi jise vacate karoge. BTW kaun sa hissa Modi ne khali kiya hai ?


Who knows whom did you vote.



Opposition had already crossed all the limits. Hathi chalte hai aur... No one gives a damn to what opposition says, last 2 LS elections are proof of this.

Chai Biscuit Chai Biscuit Chai Biscuit.

The only reason I am not replying point by point is...already promised a member I'll not criticise till end of Aug.

Anyway, so I'll not talk about chai biscoot for now. Just one thing though.

"OoOOh DoNT Criticise Modi Nahi toh Congress aa Jayega" lmao. Haan pata hai na. Agar koi air Hindu nationalist option hota toh pressure mein rehta ye Sarkar.

 

[ashdoc]

are you sure, govt money was used to buy politician?
can you give us a hint, what's the rate of Mr Scindia who belongs to a royal family? point to note, he has enough money to buy a large chunk of BJP if they are in the market.

MP govt died it's natural death. Raj govt would also follow the suit and then Maha govt. as it's not a political thread, not expanding it anymore. if you like a political discussion, I'm ready to do that in a political thread.

criticism is appreciated but not baseless allegations. sorry...

Allegations are there , I don't know if they have a base or not

BJP ‘buying’ MLAs with money earned during note ban, says Digvijaya Singh

Former M.P. chief minister flays Mumbai Police for denying Shivakumar permission to meet rebel MLAs

www-thehindu-com.cdn.ampproject.org

BJP offering MLAs Rs 10-15 crore to topple my govt, says Ashok Gehlot

Ashok Gehlot accused the BJP of trying to buy legislators “like goats from a market” to topple the Congress government in Rajasthan.

m-hindustantimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Lancer]

Allegations are there , I don't know if they have a base or not

BJP ‘buying’ MLAs with money earned during note ban, says Digvijaya Singh

Former M.P. chief minister flays Mumbai Police for denying Shivakumar permission to meet rebel MLAs

www-thehindu-com.cdn.ampproject.org

BJP offering MLAs Rs 10-15 crore to topple my govt, says Ashok Gehlot

Ashok Gehlot accused the BJP of trying to buy legislators “like goats from a market” to topple the Congress government in Rajasthan.

m-hindustantimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Surely some MLA's switch over for one inducement or the other, doesn't mean those Gvts (most of which were formed through all sorts of maneuvering and scheming in the first place) aren't dying natural deaths.

No point whining - politics is a 24 x 7 affair. And virtue signaling about "spend that money on defense" just comes across as amateurish/childish talk.

 

[Sanglamorre]

Tibet is not our issue alone. Being a neighbour does not mean we should go to war over it.

However we have a claim over Ladakh and Aksai Chin and that is the area we can fight for.

But be ready for a bloody fight and huge losses.

The reason we need to liberate atleast part of Tibet is that we need buffer and control of the water there in friendly hands.

Rest we can finance the Tibetan insurgents and they can fight their own liberation.