India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[Sanglamorre]

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Bhai, Please wait till independence day. you may get your wish fulfilled. if that does not happens then please send me an email. i will join you and we will rant together in coordinated partnership. (give +-7 days)

Fair enough. I will wait till end of August to criticise anymore.

 

[cereal killer]

Ha Bhai, whoever isn't laying on ground licking Modi's feet is a Congressi. Bhai who do you think you're lecturing about Muzzies? I live in Kolkata. Muzzies will always be there. Cowardice aur chai biscuit khilane k liye excuse dhoondna bandh karna chahiye aur seedha seedha bolna chahiye ki ant mein Narendra Neheru nikla.

Each time there will be a "meeting", chai biscuit bolunga. Bar bar bolunga, har bar bolunga.

Did the Modi govt not factor internal enemies before coming to power? That they have to contend with them along with external? What is this stupid excuse?

If China attacks, will you first ask them for time to quell internal then counter? Well, they already did and are sitting pretty in areas. Kya kiya? Chai biscoot na?

This naked adulation of Modi is fine enough, but rather name calling every critic has to stop. Haan, I didn't say anything about Congress back when they were in power. Know why? Didn't even have voting rights. I have chosen and known only one PM in my life.

Log as jate Hain internal enemy excuse leke. Didn't know about the Muslims before taking reigns? What was the plan, if there was an external enemy attacks?

And how the hell does criticising Modi govt automatically mean supporting Congress? Why don't you say it clearly, there's no rebuttal for Modi Govts chai biscuit policy after their strong national security plank other than screaming Congress was worse?

Yes, Congress is worse and terrible but so what? Ye sunke China bhaag Gaya? Aa Modi aaya, Congress Nahi hai Baba bolke Pagong etc vacate ho Gaya?

Ye barren land wala excuse toh Neheru ne bhi Diya. So who is exactly the congressi here, you or me? Pura Ladakh hi toh aisa hai, toh vacate Kar de? Kya fayda, barren land hi toh hai.

Today his own voters like me are criticising his Chai Biscoot policy with Chinese.

Tomorrow opposition will say Chaiwala is serving his masters Chai. What will you do then? Scream at them that they're congressi? Well, they are that openly.

First of all supporting Modi is fine but Nation is above everyone. This is not Modi's India.. This country belongs to every Indian who loves his motherland. This excuse of internal conflict is such a lame excuse, We've fought many wars since independence & we've been prepared for this 0.5 front every time. If you are scared with dudes like Owaisi then no one can help you. The most prominent among 0.5 front is Naxals but our reserve troops are there to handle them. Muslims can't do shit.
And yes I agree this barren land thinking has to go away otherwise there is no difference in following Modi or Nehru.

 

[A chauhan]

Ha Bhai, whoever isn't laying on ground licking Modi's feet is a Congressi. Bhai who do you think you're lecturing about Muzzies? I live in Kolkata. Muzzies will always be there. Cowardice aur chai biscuit khilane k liye excuse dhoondna bandh karna chahiye aur seedha seedha bolna chahiye ki ant mein Narendra Neheru nikla.

Each time there will be a "meeting", chai biscuit bolunga. Bar bar bolunga, har bar bolunga.

Lagta hai maine dukhti rag pakad li. You are trolling for a very long time in this thread. Every second post by you is having Chai Biscuit.

Did the Modi govt not factor internal enemies before coming to power? That they have to contend with them along with external? What is this stupid excuse?

People like you are creating environment to lose Modi govt, which is equivalent to be defeated by internal enemies, this is what every Pakistani and Chinese wants/dreams and craves for. This also might be the reason very well behind this aggression, Congress also has a secret agreement with CCP.

If China attacks, will you first ask them for time to quell internal then counter? Well, they already did and are sitting pretty in areas. Kya kiya? Chai biscoot na?

Do you understand and have you heard a word "diplomacy" ? Is it equal to Chai biscuit. Talking with enemy is Chai Biscuit ? Seriously ?

This naked adulation of Modi is fine enough, but rather name calling every critic has to stop. Haan, I didn't say anything about Congress back when they were in power. Know why? Didn't even have voting rights. I have chosen and known only one PM in my life.

This is not naked but well reasoned and considered opinion on Modi, who has worked so hard for Art. 370. Should I call your criticism a blind/mal-informed one ?

Log as jate Hain internal enemy excuse leke. Didn't know about the Muslims before taking reigns? What was the plan, if there was an external enemy attacks?

So internal enemies are excuse ? please continue to live in lalaland of Bengal. Once Modi/BJP gone Mamta didi will save you and your family from Jihad I am sure. Good luck for that.

And how the hell does criticising Modi govt automatically mean supporting Congress? Why don't you say it clearly, there's no rebuttal for Modi Govts chai biscuit policy after their strong national security plank other than screaming Congress was worse?

Criticizing Modi govt is not equal to being a congressi, but undue/blind/unaware/clueless criticism is a prime characteristic of a Congress supporter.

Yes, Congress is worse and terrible but so what? Ye sunke China bhaag Gaya? Aa Modi aaya, Congress Nahi hai Baba bolke Pagong etc vacate ho Gaya?

No one is saying Congress is worse because it's so without even being said. Did I say that China bhag gya Modi ko dekh ke ? Can you tell me when did the last time IA kill Chinese soldiers in such a large number ? Are you sure about PLA positions on LAC jo puch rahe ho ki Pangong khali hua ki nahi ? Tumko Chai Biscuit khane bula kar bataye hain kya ki China Pangong pe kabza kar liya hai ?

Ye barren land wala excuse toh Neheru ne bhi Diya. So who is exactly the congressi here, you or me? Pura Ladakh hi toh aisa hai, toh vacate Kar de? Kya fayda, barren land hi toh hai.

Ye excuse nahi hai mr. It is a barren land, and no one here is asking to vacate it, for your information Pura Laddakh hamare kabze me hai hi nahi jise vacate karoge. BTW kaun sa hissa Modi ne khali kiya hai ?

Today his own voters like me are criticising his Chai Biscoot policy with Chinese.

Who knows whom did you vote.

Tomorrow opposition will say Chaiwala is serving his masters Chai. What will you do then? Scream at them that they're congressi? Well, they are that openly.

Opposition had already crossed all the limits. Hathi chalte hai aur... No one gives a damn to what opposition says, last 2 LS elections are proof of this.

Chai Biscuit Chai Biscuit Chai Biscuit.

 

[Tridev123]

Reports from India Today magazine stating that the Army has or is in the process of ordering 1 regiment of SprutSD light tanks 45 nos from Russia. Seems a practical decision as an indigenous light tank is years away. Other imported alternatives are much heavier like the 30 tonnes Mobile Protected Firepower program of the US army.

The SprutSD at around < 20 tonnes weight can theoretically be air transported by our C130j and Mi26. Has a powerful 125 mm gun. Disadvantage is thinly armoured.
But we can aquire the Trophy APS system from Israel and install it on the SprutSD. Would offer some degree of protection and additional weight of the Trophy APS system will be manageable at less than 1000kgs.The Israelis have a history of modifying Soviet /Russian weapons and can fit the Trophy APS system on to the SprutSD.

 

[DownWithCCP]

Baba so take it lightly, but I have a feeling that this time it might be true

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Well said.


Some square kms of barren land's "unclear" possession vs lives of their own kids.

Modi was expected to defend both our kids and barren lands on the China border.. And you want us to declare Tibet as not part of China.? India does that, and China starts gobbling up your barren lands at an even faster rate.. Meanwhile, Modi is anyday better than congress.. EAM Jaishankar atleast has directly stated in an interview that the staye of the border will have a direct bearing on bilateral ties..Also the slow economic decoupling from China is welcome.

 

[johnq]

This could bring China down in the long run, provided that it's not covered up:
VIRUS LEAK Chinese scientist who fled to US claims coronavirus came from a ‘military lab’

 

[Sehwag213]

Fight them in Ladakh or one day you would lose Uttarakhand/Himachal.
Informative post on BRF

 

[Bhadra]

First of all supporting Modi is fine but Nation is above everyone.

Modis elected PM of the nation and his identity with the nation, for the time being, is not illegal. immoral and unconstitutional.

This is not Modi's India..

This very much is Modi's India too.
He is India's Modi... I hope you understand that.

This country belongs to every Indian who loves his motherland.

Why exclude Modi from those, Yaara. Unless you think that you have some divine rights.

This excuse of internal conflict is such a lame excuse,

Not as per all govts so far who concluded that it is the biggest threat to unity and integrity of India. India so far has faced so many successionist threats right from Chenna Durai. to JNU. Punjab and J&K. Mr clean MMS announced it officially as the biggest threat.

We've fought many wars since independence & we've been prepared for this 0.5 front every time. If you are scared with dudes like Owaisi then no one can help you. The most prominent among 0.5 front is Naxals but our reserve troops are there to handle them.

We have fought four wars but internally we are dealing with "a million mutinies" as famous writer VS Naipaul put it. you name a place and state where Indian Army has not been used to quell such forces. Nagaland, Mizoram, Tripura, Assam, Punjab, Hyderabad, Goa and J&K saw prolonged anti-insurgency operations. Today Bihar, Jharkhand, WB, Chattisgarh, Maharashtra, Orissa. Andhra. Karnatak and Kerala is witnessing Naxal armed insurgency, That all appears a joke you.

Muslims can't do shit.

Well, I would say for the last 74 years they have put you in shit by refusing all democratic norms, refusing the common application of the law, having disporting representation. out of size influence on political setup, by having a special status of a state within a state in J&K and killing and maiming tens of thousands of Hindu by bomb blasts and terrorist acts. underworld activities, and anti-national activities. What more you want mate unless you want to be mated.

And yes I agree this barren land thinking has to go away otherwise there is no difference in following Modi or Nehru.

Do not make a loss of 48000 sq km of land and death of about 1200 soldiers as a trevail issue and do not compare that with loss of a finger.

You have no idea what you wrote...

 

[A chauhan]

Modi was expected to defend both our kids and barren lands on the China border.. And you want us to declare Tibet as not part of China.? India does that, and China starts gobbling up your barren lands at an even faster rate.. Meanwhile, Modi is anyday better than congress.. EAM Jaishankar atleast has directly stated in an interview that the staye of the border will have a direct bearing on bilateral ties..Also the slow economic decoupling from China is welcome.

Tibet is not a part of China, It's a long needed step. Historically Tibet was our neighbor not China. China is an encroacher and it should be declared so. Once we fill up squadrons strength we should declare so.

 

[Cheran]

 

[Bhadra]

Reports from India Today magazine stating that the Army has or is in the process of ordering 1 regiment of SprutSD light tanks 45 nos from Russia. Seems a practical decision as an indigenous light tank is years away. Other imported alternatives are much heavier like the 30 tonnes Mobile Protected Firepower program of the US army.

The SprutSD at around < 20 tonnes weight can theoretically be air transported by our C130j and Mi26. Has a powerful 125 mm gun. Disadvantage is thinly armoured.
But we can aquire the Trophy APS system from Israel and install it on the SprutSD. Would offer some degree of protection and additional weight of the Trophy APS system will be manageable at less than 1000kgs.The Israelis have a history of modifying Soviet /Russian weapons and can fit the Trophy APS system on to the SprutSD.

So these will be anti-tank the pillboxes for DBO... one RPG shot pillboxes..

 

[doreamon]

Ha Bhai, whoever isn't laying on ground licking Modi's feet is a Congressi. Bhai who do you think you're lecturing about Muzzies? I live in Kolkata. Muzzies will always be there. Cowardice aur chai biscuit khilane k liye excuse dhoondna bandh karna chahiye aur seedha seedha bolna chahiye ki ant mein Narendra Neheru nikla.

Each time there will be a "meeting", chai biscuit bolunga. Bar bar bolunga, har bar bolunga.

Did the Modi govt not factor internal enemies before coming to power? That they have to contend with them along with external? What is this stupid excuse?

If China attacks, will you first ask them for time to quell internal then counter? Well, they already did and are sitting pretty in areas. Kya kiya? Chai biscoot na?

This naked adulation of Modi is fine enough, but rather name calling every critic has to stop. Haan, I didn't say anything about Congress back when they were in power. Know why? Didn't even have voting rights. I have chosen and known only one PM in my life.

Log as jate Hain internal enemy excuse leke. Didn't know about the Muslims before taking reigns? What was the plan, if there was an external enemy attacks?

And how the hell does criticising Modi govt automatically mean supporting Congress? Why don't you say it clearly, there's no rebuttal for Modi Govts chai biscuit policy after their strong national security plank other than screaming Congress was worse?

Yes, Congress is worse and terrible but so what? Ye sunke China bhaag Gaya? Aa Modi aaya, Congress Nahi hai Baba bolke Pagong etc vacate ho Gaya?

Ye barren land wala excuse toh Neheru ne bhi Diya. So who is exactly the congressi here, you or me? Pura Ladakh hi toh aisa hai, toh vacate Kar de? Kya fayda, barren land hi toh hai.

Today his own voters like me are criticising his Chai Biscoot policy with Chinese.

Tomorrow opposition will say Chaiwala is serving his masters Chai. What will you do then? Scream at them that they're congressi? Well, they are that openly.

that is too harsh ... have some patience . Its a bad time. Economy fckd up . govt tax income low.. whole world busy saving their a## ... not at all a good time to start something like a all out war against a big country like china .
By the way deep state might be searching fr u in Kolkata ..

 

[garg_bharat]

Well said.


Yeah, lots of meltdown by one or 2 Congressis asking to attack China, using "Chai-Biscuit" for every talk. These people are totally clueless about internal enemies, such people should go to the outskirts of their city whichever city they live, dozens of illegal Muzzie population is forming there and waiting for opportunity. And if Modi gone, no Congress or Congressi will save them or their kids.

Some square kms of barren land's "unclear" possession vs lives of their own kids. Ye log baahar jake Modi ko galiyan dete hain aur yahan aake deshbhakti dikhate hain, during UPA these people were ostriches.



India is a missile power, we are on par with developed countries in terms of missiles and radars and within a decade or so we'll be having a world class BMD for our main cities. Then the concept of MAD becomes safer for us.



Now, the time has come to declare Tibet is not a part of China. This is the only way to end Chinese advantages gradually and strategically. If India acts so, gradually other countries will follow. I know that Chinese won't free Tibet but this will weaken their position for sure.

Fight them in Ladakh or one day you would lose Uttarakhand/Himachal.
Informative post on BRF

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View attachment 55337

The people who want war today right now must remember that government has not accepted land grab by Chinese. So a war in near future is still likely.

Tibet is not a part of China, It's a long needed step. Historically Tibet was our neighbor not China. China is an encroacher and it should be declared so. Once we fill up squadrons strength we should declare so.

India does not have responsibility to set all historical wrongs right.

Tibet and Xinxiang are much bigger issues and need to be dealt at a higher level like UN or sole superpower USA.

 

[cereal killer]

Modis elected PM of the nation and his identity with the nation, for the time being, is not illegal. immoral and unconstitutional.



This very much is Modi's India too.
He is India's Modi... I hope you understand that.


Why exclude Modi from those, Yaara. Unless you think that you have some divine rights.


Not as per all govts so far who concluded that it is the biggest threat to unity and integrity of India. India so far has faced so many successionist threats right from Chenna Durai. to JNU. Punjab and J&K. Mr clean MMS announced it officially as the biggest threat.


We have fought four wars but internally we are dealing with "a million mutinies" as famous writer VS Naipaul put it. you name a place and state where Indian Army has not been used to quell such forces. Nagaland, Mizoram, Tripura, Assam, Punjab, Hyderabad, Goa and J&K saw prolonged anti-insurgency operations. Today Bihar, Jharkhand, WB, Chattisgarh, Maharashtra, Orissa. Andhra. Karnatak and Kerala is witnessing Naxal armed insurgency, That all appears a joke you.



Well, I would say for the last 74 years they have put you in shit by refusing all democratic norms, refusing the common application of the law, having disporting representation. out of size influence on political setup, by having a special status of a state within a state in J&K and killing and maiming tens of thousands of Hindu by bomb blasts and terrorist acts. underworld activities, and anti-national activities. What more you want mate unless you want to be mated.



Do not make a loss of 48000 sq km of land and death of about 1200 soldiers as a trevail issue and do not compare that with loss of a finger.

You have no idea what you wrote...

Well the problems you listed will always remain a problem coz India is a very diverse country. As far as North east insurgency is concerned except Nagaland the rest are very much under control & you have to give credit to Doval here. J&K will always be pumped with soldiers doesn't matter how much peaceful it gets coz it is necessary for our security. I mentioned Naxal insurgency as primary 0.5 threat & it is.
Rest what you said about JNU & leftist ideology well it is in every democratic country & public itself has rejected that so there Nothing to make a big fuss about it.
When I said it is not Modi's India only I meant it is as much as yours like its mine. Modi is not a dictator like Kim Jong Un who says North Korea mere dada ka hai. I said India is everyone's who loves his motherland & if you got a problem then there's Nothing I can do.
Your arguments are like Political agenda sometimes. You claimed Xi Jinping is doing this to undermine Modi's influence.. Like he cares lol. Xi Jinping only intention is to show India its place & it doesn't matter to him who's in power. Modi tried diplomacy with China more than any leader but he failed.
And that point about 48000 sq km like seriously everyone knows it was Nehru's blunder & his false bravado that led to 1962 & it was a war we lost that's why we lost land. It's simple.

 

[Tridev123]

Modi was expected to defend both our kids and barren lands on the China border.. And you want us to declare Tibet as not part of China.? India does that, and China starts gobbling up your barren lands at an even faster rate.. Meanwhile, Modi is anyday better than congress.. EAM Jaishankar atleast has directly stated in an interview that the staye of the border will have a direct bearing on bilateral ties..Also the slow economic decoupling from China is welcome.

I appreciate your apprehension of increased Chinese hostility in the future. We do not have too many options in the near future. If we don't want to become a puppet of the US(the US is the only power having the capability and the will to take on the Chinese) then relying on nuclear weapons in a massive way is the only alternative till we catch up with the Chinese economically.

There has to be an exponential increase in our nuclear weapons capability in terms of numbers and technology. Hundreds if not thousands of tactical nuclear warheads will be needed to secure the long Indo-Chinese border. Basically replicating the NATO strategy towards the then Soviet Union. Any aggressive move by the PLA would trigger the nuclear trip line. The PLA should not be allowed to advance even a few hundred metres as our nuclear artillery will destroy them. The cost of aggression for the PLA will be too great as no sane commander will risk a nuclear war to grab a few square kilometers of territory.

It goes without saying that such an aggressive nuclear posture by us on the border should be backed up by a very credible strategic nuclear capability. A mixture of SSBN's protected by SSN's having advanced long range nuclear missiles capable of penetrating any ABM shield fielded by the Chinese. Both quality and quantity matter. The Chinese should not be capable of taking out our Second Strike Capability. MAD or mutually assured destruction situation should be created.

When the stakes become so high even a 10 metre advance by the PLA will require a Chinese Presidential consent.

 

[cereal killer]

Low IQ Modi Bhakts have taken over Our Nation or at least it looks like that from social media. The best reply they can give you is congressi or liberandu or any such words that the IT cell uses if anybody criticizes the government. I used to believe in him before but not anymore. The guy is just an orator and cannot speak for himself as seen in the lack of press conferences. He is being controlled by somebody else, hopefully that person has India's interest in mind and is not a foreign agent. With all our neighboring nations also being critical about us, it looks more and more like a diplomatic failure by the government.

Btw to the modi fans on this forum, I have all the right to be critical of the leader of my country so please dont get offended.

Look I am myself a Modi supporter & I voted for him. As long as you don't do any anti India stuff, you can hate any particular Individual or party as it is a democracy. Anyways don't derail the thread we need to keep politics aside when it comes to National security.

 

[Tridev123]

So these will be anti-tank the pillboxes for DBO... one RPG shot pillboxes..

Would appreciate a little more clarity on the deployment strategy. For the convenience of non military background members.
Thanks in advance.

 

[garg_bharat]

Well the problems you listed will always remain a problem coz India is a very diverse country. As far as North east insurgency is concerned except Nagaland the rest are very much under control & you have to give credit to Doval here. J&K will always be pumped with soldiers doesn't matter how much peaceful it gets coz it is necessary for our security. I mentioned Naxal insurgency as primary 0.5 threat & it is.
Rest what you said about JNU & leftist ideology well it is in every democratic country & public itself has rejected that so there Nothing to make a big fuss about it.
When I said it is not Modi's India only I meant it is as much as yours like its mine. Modi is not a dictator like Kim Jong Un who says North Korea mere dada ka hai. I said India is everyone's who loves his motherland & if you got a problem then there's Nothing I can do.
Your arguments are like Political agenda sometimes. You claimed Xi Jinping is doing this to undermine Modi's influence.. Like he cares lol. Xi Jinping only intention is to show India its place & it doesn't matter to him who's in power. Modi tried diplomacy with China more than any leader but he failed.
And that point about 48000 sq km like seriously everyone knows it was Nehru's blunder & his false bravado that led to 1962 & it was a war we lost that's why we lost land. It's simple.

I doubt India is talking to Chinese due to internal issues.

India is talking to Chinese to protect last fifty years of peace and so many rounds of dialog.

Of course you may say talk will yield nothing, and I am in the same camp.

However government of a country like ours has to be a little bit more optimistic.

I think an immediate war is unlikely.

 

[A chauhan]

The people who want war today right now must remember that government has not accepted land grab by Chinese. So a war in near future is still likely.

We are moving out troops towards border in high numbers that alone says we are preparing for something big than a skirmish.

India does not have responsibility to set all historical wrongs right.

Tibet and Xinxiang are much bigger issues and need to be dealt at a higher level like UN or sole superpower USA.

It's not about historical wrongs or vice versa, but what should be done by us. Being direct neighbor we are most affected by Tibetan occupancy of China. We'll have to deal with it today or tomorrow.