India-China 2020 Border Dispute - Military and Strategic Discussion

[utubekhiladi]

Are Baluchis mostly Shia or Sunni?

i really dont care.. as long as they keep shooting porkis

 

[another_armchair]

That's all nice but it belongs to someone else. They will not put boots on the ground with
interests in Iran. If they did they would be slaughtered by baluchis.

Just like Africa, Pakistan and elsewhere.

Ex-Mil and CPC foot soldiers will go set up shops, businesses, retail and kirana stores.

CPC under China is East India Company under the British crown.

They want Balochistan and Pakistan under PakJab majority will be more than happy to barter it for a fat fee.

GB is unofficially Chinese territory where their writ rules.

Same will be pushed in Balochistan except that India won't let that happen without imposing a cost on both parties.

If India manages to broker a peace deal and Iran buries the hatchet with the West + stops baying for Jewish blood, we will see a tectonic shift in geopolitics. Alas, a big wet dream onleee.

 

[Synergy]

Rafale is a game changer, Chinese J 20 does not even come close, says former air chief Dhanoa

Former air chief marshal B S Dhanoa despite facing flak from Opposition pushed the acquisition of Rafale Fighter from France.

m.hindustantimes.com

 

[Shashank Nayak]

Anyone who has been to the region will laugh off his/her head on that one.

Spatial constraints don't mean much to few of our twitter handles.

He refers to the entire LAC.. maybe somewhere other than Ladakh..

 

[EarthCitizen]

Baloch and Sindhu Desh separatist has released RAP song against Pakistan

 

[nick_indian]

Are Baluchis mostly Shia or Sunni?

Mostly Sunni

 

[nick_indian]

Nice.. BRI is bound to fail .. off lately chinese bullying is also getting evident in pork media and that's slowly turning tide against them as well....Baloch know that chinese are there to exploit their resources...

Pakjabis don't care about Baloch feelings. And Pakjiabis are completely servile to the Chinkis.

 

[vayuu1]

Baloch and Sindhu Desh separatist has released RAP song against Pakistan

This song will be hit on d.pk,this will burn their but.. To.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Anyone who thinks we have enough submarines, needs a serious look into their brains.

We have 03 tasks for the Navy. Will NOT elaborate specifically.

But we need to stitch up Sunda Straits, Malacca, East Timor Sea (potentially), monitor and prepare to interdict shipping off the coast of Pakistan, the harbours and PLAN base at Djibouti and provide screen to CBG as also the amphibious task force, when it shall need to be deployed. That shall need significant numbers.

We have the lift capacity of 02 brigades today to deploy immediately in an amphibious operation. (which can be expanded to more when the GoI decides to launch an amphibious operation by utilizing SCI ships to expand the troop carrying capacity once a beach head is secured, which itself will need at minimum a couple of submarines as escort in addition to robust ASW sweeps by frigates/destroyers)

And hey @garg_bharat I know of it because I was in that damn lift capacity when it was practiced, on board INS Jalashwa,. So yes, the effing Indian Navy and Indian Army told me.

I’ve said this for a long time. We need a fleet of ‘newly’ inducted diesel electric subs of at least 30. SSN’s 10-15.
Next up, ASW corvettes and more Nilgiri frigates.
Once that’s taken care of, we can look at increasing destroyer strength.
Only after that would I say address the AC strength.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

They got commission from Eurofighter company. Here is his latest tweet

View attachment 54724

Basically to embarass the GoI and create an issue where there is none. Idiots out to undermine national security at all costs.

These guys (So called Opposition) tried really hard for GOI to publicize the configurations of the rafale.
That was straight up treason at that point. There’s a lot of subsystems that have gone into the aircraft as the air chiefs and senior pilots keep indicating that it’s nuclear capable.
There’s every chance that the Chinese pressured these folks to try bringing out the framework of the deal for the 36 fighters. They even tried stealing the docs from the project management team in France. Such low lives...
It all makes sense. The 2.5 front war. Tsk tsk

 

[Sridhar_TN]

In the air to air battle scenario over Tibet, 5 Rafales will make a difference because the PLAAF does not have any platform/aam combination which can match the Rafale. In theory the IAF could do a 10x Meteor load out per Rafale if India has got that many Meteors in stock. And 5 of them could (again in theory) down 50 PLAAF aircraft if they happen to be in the vicinity because of it's long range and advertised NEZ of 60 km. Now obviously the PLAAF will not let 50 of its aircraft fly together and become flying ducks, but that capability is what the Rafale brings to the table. The shock of having even 5-10 PLAAF fighters downed on day 1 of the start of hostilities with no loss to the IAF will be a morale downer for China.

It definitely would. A single rafale in the air could provide air cover sitting well inside Indian airspace. But to be honest, the MKI’s could do that.
The rafales will actually be used first hand to take out AD systems. That is it’s speciality. Look at what it is doing in Libya. It’s dodging and Dancing around Turkish air defences the whole time. SCALPS and HAMMERs. All bought for a reason.
Side note: It will be 10 rafales by the end of this year. Not just 5.

 

[desicanuk]

US just want's another puppet so that war wouldn't come to north america and of course sell weapon

The war is at our borders.We should accept whatever help Uncle Sam gives.However we should always watch our back and trust no one.Our greatest misfortune was to keep Congress in power for so long .

 

[prasadr14]

I am shocked at this US vs China & who is good or bad.

1. US does not want an inch of our land, china claims complete states
2. US does not promote terrorism, China does in NE and using commies
3. US is not arming Pakis to attack India, China does, even gave them nukes
4. US is not stopping us from joining international groups, China has been actively blocking us

What US has is their interest. It does not want a destroyed India.
China on other hand would love to destroy India.

Any one bringing in US is bad vis a vis China are being pedantic at this point.

 

[Indrajit]

A very good piece. A must read in my opinion.

President Xi’s long game: World is dealing with a leader who believes he will shape a Chinese Century

Xi Jinping intends to be the Leader of the “Second Hundred” just as Mao Zedong is regarded as the Leader of the “First Hundred”. This means the world will be dealing with President Xi Jinping for some time. It is, therefore, important to get a proper measure of the person.

indianexpress.com

President Xi’s long game: World is dealing with a leader who believes he will shape a Chinese Century
Xi Jinping intends to be the Leader of the “Second Hundred” just as Mao Zedong is regarded as the Leader of the “First Hundred”. This means the world will be dealing with President Xi Jinping for some time. It is, therefore, important to get a proper measure of the person.

• Written By Vijay Gokhale |
• Updated: July 29, 2020

• 

Over the last six months, in the shadow of COVID-19, President Xi Jinping has become China’s Supreme Leader.
The July 15 issue of the Chinese Communist Party journal, Qiushi (Seeking Truth), has declared in an editorial that it is the highest duty of all Chinese to “safeguard the core position of General Secretary Xi Jinping”. It then, astonishingly, goes on to make crystal clear that “to safeguard the core position of General Secretary Xi Jinping means only Xi Jinping and no other individual.” In short, there is no other leader and no power-centre other than Xi.

It took many years for Mao Zedong to dominate a party that he had literally built and led to victory. Even then, at the height of his power, he was still compelled to share authority at times with others like Liu Shaoqi and Zhou Enlai, and PLA Marshals Zhu De and Ye Jianying.

President Xi Jinping, by contrast, appears to have managed this in a mere six years after 2013, and within just the past six months, he seems to have risen to the position of Supreme Leader of China. His red pedigree, as well as his family’s experiences of power and deprivation, may have given him his sense of entitlement and desire for power, but it is not the whole explanation.

It is worth recalling that he was chosen as general secretary in November 2012, because the party feared that Bo Xilai, another Red Child of the Revolution, displayed dangerous traits of megalomania and Maoism. Xi had given no hint of such traits. Bo Xilai was handsome, flamboyant and media-friendly; Xi was modest in both dress and demeanour and, in a word, underwhelming. Such comparison is important to comprehend how he rose without being viewed as a “threat”. Those who encountered him before 2012 tended to judge him only by his appearance or outward demeanour. Perhaps for this reason, people misjudge him still.

A rare interview that he gave in August 2000 to a Chinese journal revealed three qualities: Persistence, patience and a strong belief in himself. He admitted that politics was a risky business and he was playing the long game. In his words, “once you have gone into politics, it is like crossing a river. No matter how many obstacles you meet, there is only one way, and that is forward.” He was not to be deterred by obstacles: “If you have a position on something, the thing is to stick with it and continue one’s work. Then, in the final analysis, it will give results.” What came across through the interview was his steely resolve.

In the last seven years, President Xi has systematically neutralised his political opponents through arrests and trials; that includes Sun Zhengcai, who was the heir presumptive. The anti-corruption campaign has created a wave of “terror”. President Xi has kept his promise to take down “tigers and flies”, by removing hundreds of officials who belonged to the factions of his two predecessors. In March 2018, the two-term limit for the Chinese President was removed from the Constitution to allow President Xi to continue beyond March 2023.
President Xi has tightened his grip over the state’s security apparatus. The People’s Armed Police (PAP) has been brought under his direct authority. The People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has similarly been purged. Some of its highest-ranking serving military leaders like Generals Zhang Yang and Fang Fenghui have fallen in 2017. President Xi has assumed the position of the Commander-in-Chief of the PLA in 2016, a title even Mao had not assumed despite his considerable experience of higher military command. Xi has ensured, at least on paper, that the PLA and PAP will not be an independent player in a palace coup, as was the case during the fall of the Gang of Four in 1976.

To secure constitutional legitimacy, in 2017 and 2018, “Xi Jinping Thought” was written into the party and state constitutions respectively. No leader after Mao had attempted this; in Deng’s case it was posthumous. The party speaks of a “New Era” that has begun with Xi. Deng’s political arrangements are considered outdated and, therefore, not suitable. Collective responsibility has ended. Even the Premier of the State Council is a pale shadow of his predecessors.

The pandemic was a “black swan”, but Xi sensed opportunity. In his own words, in the interview quoted above, “If you want to become a general you must be able to win a battle… Even if you have the ability to win battles, you don’t have battles every day, in particular not in times of peace. Only if there are battles, there are opportunities. One can say that only if a chance should arise and you make use of it right away, you will succeed.” Xi saw his chance and acted swiftly.

After declaring victory over COVID-19 in early April, Xi has deftly moved to remove the last vestiges of opposition. Earlier this month, the Secretary General of the Political and Legal Affairs Commission called for “scrape(ing) the bone to remove the poison”. The security forces are being asked to show personal loyalty to President Xi. New regulations on Building the Communist Party of China’s Military have also been formulated. The Military Reserves are now under his control. In short, all the armed instruments of the state are at his service.

According to one media report, party members are forbidden from certain actions, including inter alia, expressing opinions or making statements that deviate from Xi as the “core”, discussing political rumours and forming cliques. Earlier, in May, Xi Jinping spoke at a special Democratic Life meeting of the Politburo, virtually counselling China’s highest leadership that there will be no second chances. A revised set of Guidelines for Political Life for the New Era will replace the rules of behaviour for party cadres put into place by Deng Xiaoping in 1982. The old order no longer holds, the new era requires new rules.

It is reported that the Ministry of Education issued new guidelines for Ideological and Political Development of the Higher Education Curriculum to include Xi Jinping’s ideas on “China Dream” and “Socialism with Chinese Characteristics in the New Era”, as mandatory university courses. On July 21, the Chinese Foreign Ministry established a Xi Jinping Research Centre for Diplomatic Thought. Similar Centres exist in the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, the Central Party School and leading universities. Studying Xi’s words and thought is now a national priority in every field.

The world is, therefore, likely dealing with a Chinese leader unlike any since Mao, driven by a sense of his own genius, and believing that he will be the shaper of the 21st century as the Chinese Century. In July 2021 the party will mark its 100th anniversary. Xi Jinping intends to be the Leader of the “Second Hundred” just as Mao Zedong is regarded as the Leader of the “First Hundred”. This means the world will be dealing with President Xi Jinping for some time. It is, therefore, important to get a proper measure of the person.

This article first appeared in the print edition on July 29, 2020 under the title ‘President Xi’s long game’. The writer was India’s Ambassador to China

 

[Indrajit]

I am shocked at this US vs China & who is good or bad.

1. US does not want an inch of our land, china claims complete states
2. US does not promote terrorism, China does in NE and using commies
3. US is not arming Pakis to attack India, China does, even gave them nukes
4. US is not stopping us from joining international groups, China has been actively blocking us

What US has is their interest. It does not want a destroyed India.
China on other hand would love to destroy India.

Any one bringing in US is bad vis a vis China are being pedantic at this point.

Yeah, the number of folks here suffering from Masochism here is quite substantial.

 

[ataru09]

Any one bringing in US is bad vis a vis China are being pedantic at this point.

America bad is just a result of plain old commie thinking which is 30 years past it's expiry date. The one laughable criticism I always see about USA is that it only "thinks about its own interest" to which I always respond "why the hell should a country put anyone else's interest over it's own?"

And usually these same people fawn over Russia as if the Russians are doing some selfless sacrifice out of the good of their hearts to support the Indian cause.

 

[Bhadra]

Last bit may not be true in this govt, otherwise this escalation wouldn’t have happened. It’s PLA’s frustration about in change in status quo in terms of Indian patrols.
Isn’t it?

You do have a point but diplomatic parleys, naturally and rightly, can not be offensive unless it is India and Pakistan. Diplomates do listen to each other with patience. How the diplomates react towards their domestic actors is what matters. Most of the time, diplomates do jockey for greater domestic influence as a bureaucracy. The other bureaucracy - the general would also do the same. Deployment of ITBP on the Chinese border is largely a reflection on MEA;s bid to keep the Indian Army away from LAC besides of course recommendations of GOM in 2004.

An example is a humiliation meted out to General Sirdeshpande of IPKF where JN Dixit almost ruined his career for being a little straight and not carrying out stupid dictates of that high headed lord.

 

[Lancer]

Since you are flame baiting and have had enough of bullshit from arm chair warriors who are not even in the system and presume to know more.



Please let me know your background.


Also, let me address it with:

If a minister in PRC repetitively says that Arunachal is part of China and moves troops towards Eastern Bhutan, will you take the threat as a possible threat or write it off as being a mere domestic posturing? Especially if the action is being taken against your 'ally/friend'?

Now extrapolate it to the action against Pakistan, PRC's interest in GB and Pakistan, actions on 05 Aug 2019 and statement of a man who is widely accepted as being able to articulate Government's view point.

Now genius, back at you, did the Chinese tell you it is not linked to their appreciation of a certain seriousness in India to do something about GB?

Or are you just plain stupid and expect those of us whose job it was to watch China and prepare militarily, to be equally stupid as you?

Next time, maintain decorum.

The opposition asked him whether he considered Aksai Chin part of India as well, while he was speaking on PoK. Since you routinely go after him for that statement, what else was he supposed to say exactly?

Was he supposed to say no?

He gave the only answer which could be given in that situation. I also find attempts to pin the blame for China's actions on him (among other things) to be akin to letting China off the hook too easy.

Sooner or later, China was bound to mess with us, as they've often done in the past.

 

[johnq]

The U.S. Navy’s Secret Counter-Stealth Weapon Could Be Hiding in Plain Sight

 

[Kumata]

I am shocked at this US vs China & who is good or bad.

1. US does not want an inch of our land, china claims complete states
2. US does not promote terrorism, China does in NE and using commies
3. US is not arming Pakis to attack India, China does, even gave them nukes
4. US is not stopping us from joining international groups, China has been actively blocking us

What US has is their interest. It does not want a destroyed India.
China on other hand would love to destroy India.

Any one bringing in US is bad vis a vis China are being pedantic at this point.

what u said is right but their interests do conflict with our when it comes to military hardware and sharing a equal partnership.... typically, US is like class monitor while our stand is of a mutual relationship... and that's the only problem i see with uncle sam.... U can't have a un equal marriage..

If we are thinking that US is doing us a favor than i had like to call that bluff, specifically point no 3, they have done that for good 4-5 decades and now that porks are not falling in their line, they are trying to align with us to save their ass from china...

fact is US is trying to promote us and keep us in good books since it sees us as a counter to china... else bat muchers will start breathing down their neck in their own back yard..