India-China 2020 Border conflict

[mokoman]

Wow , what happened to this forum ? Thank God I didn't post anything yesterday.

Who holds Galwan now @mokoman @mist_consecutive ? Rest points are gibberish. In war casualties, POW happens.

If you believe Pakis, they won 1965 war . What other sides believe doesn't matter. What matters is that who actually own Galwan.

I was on Twitter yesterday and didn't see any photos of Galwan.

we got what we wanted - chinese posts out of river bend PP14 + 1.4 km away from it

we have always welcomed a buffer zone - with both sides patrolling.

so really no issues there.

The question of "who owns Galwan" is also muddied. As I understand the LAC has moved to our side by about 1-1.5 km to the "bend" and the so called buffer zone is now almost completely on our territory. These buffer zones we are negotiating will just become grey zones tomorrow IMO.

only seen ajay shukla explicitly put out a map stating this.

if this is true then most of the buffer is on our side.

but i dont think it is. that dude has some strange ideas.

 

[another_armchair]

Aren't we losing now ?
Ok if we fought them, where's the proof of it. Proof of dead chinkies , proof of mutilated chinese bodies where are they .
Where are they so they i can feel better by looking at them , there aren't any there aren't any.
We lost , period .
Nobody cares about buffer zone or advamced fauji nomenclature.
We care about dead bodies of enemies or captured pows.
Why government dosnt understand that we want blood , not their filthy blabber.

One can lose fewer men than your enemy and still lose the war.

It is about attaining the objective, not counting the dead amongst you or your enemies.

During the '62 war, there was a collapse in military leadership too. Most of IA tucked tail and ran. Every man for himself like situation in places. Not pretty I say.

We lost fewer men in '62 than in '65 yet '62 makes us all hang our heads in shame. That is an indelible mark highlighting our collective failure of civil and military leadership.

A rather personal question.. but how old are you?

Counting the dead is very video gamish in a long drawn battle. Yes, it matters but not if we attain the objective. If you are afraid of dead bodies on your side, your options are wide... ranging from truce, surrender, becoming a vassal state of your aggressor etc.

 

[Lost user]

The enemy releases 2 pics FOR PROPAGANDA PURPOSES and this entire forum starts doing RANDI RONA over it, you guys are pathetic. God knows what you will do if and when there is a hot war and more pics come of our soldiers being killed.
People doubting and assessing the competency and effectiveness of on ground commanders from 2 pics is exactly why the enemy released them kinda sad after so much bashing of GoI over IW, people on a "defence forum" fall for the cheapest kind of IW

The pics the Chinese released were propaganda. But they provide some information about how and where the Melle happened..But, is it not propaganda when Indian officials put out statements on the record, that "a large number of terrorists" were killed in the balakot strike, without providing a shred of proof.. ?

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

One can lose fewer men than your enemy and still lose the war.

It is about attaining the objective, not counting the dead amongst you or your enemies.

During the '62 war, there was a collapse in military leadership too. Most of IA tucked tail and ran. Every man for himself like situation in places. Not pretty I say.

We lost fewer men in '62 than in '65 yet '62 makes us all hang our heads in shame. That is an indelible mark highlighting our collective failure of civil and military leadership.

A rather personal question.. but how old are you?

Counting the dead is very video gamish in a long drawn battle. Yes, it matters but not if we attain the objective. If you are afraid of dead bodies on your side, your options are wide... ranging from truce, surrender, becoming a vassal state of your aggressor etc.

I don't want to count dead , I just want that these propaganda needs to be countered by our own.
Who counts dead , did we count the dead in kargil or in 71 or anywhere else.
I dont feel pain or trouble if army loses men , but army should not lose face either

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

One can lose fewer men than your enemy and still lose the war.

It is about attaining the objective, not counting the dead amongst you or your enemies.

During the '62 war, there was a collapse in military leadership too. Most of IA tucked tail and ran. Every man for himself like situation in places. Not pretty I say.

We lost fewer men in '62 than in '65 yet '62 makes us all hang our heads in shame. That is an indelible mark highlighting our collective failure of civil and military leadership.

A rather personal question.. but how old are you?

Counting the dead is very video gamish in a long drawn battle. Yes, it matters but not if we attain the objective. If you are afraid of dead bodies on your side, your options are wide... ranging from truce, surrender, becoming a vassal state of your aggressor etc.

My age is 23 years old .

 

[ezsasa]

I don't want to count dead , I just want that these propaganda needs to be countered by our own.
Who counts dead , did we count the dead in kargil or in 71 or anywhere else.
I dont feel pain or trouble if army loses men , but army should not lose face either

Indian security forces establishment has already indicated to you that they are not in propaganda business, then what will you do?

 

[another_armchair]

I don't want to count dead , I just want that these propaganda needs to be countered by our own.
Who counts dead , did we count the dead in kargil or in 71 or anywhere else.
I dont feel pain or trouble if army loses men , but army should not lose face either

If you are so troubled by the pictures of captive Indian soldiers, how would you react to body bags?

We all knew there were IA men in Chinese custody. Far as I remember, there was a Major ranked officer too who was in their custody.

If Chinese chose to release pictures, should we also do the same?

Should we mimic the Chinese in action and allow them to preempt us ? Wouldn't that make our reaction predictable?

The Chinese had taken up positions all along the fingers area in huge numbers. They had to dismantle everything and leave after talks. They had a mini Op. Parakram and all those bunkers and fancy stuff they built had to be torn down and march back to Sirijap without firing a bullet.

Let kinetic force be the last option.

You can choose to be a lone wolf and take unilateral action. Hope you can inspire many more to follow your footsteps but I hope your final act is an act of valor, not of meltdown.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Y’all keep forgetting that while India lost 20 soldiers, US intelligence clearly stated China lost 42 men.
I’ll leave it at that.

 

[another_armchair]

The pics the Chinese released were propaganda. But they provide some information about how and where the Melle happened..But, is it not propaganda when Indian officials put out statements on the record, that "a large number of terrorists" were killed in the balakot strike, without providing a shred of proof.. ?

Valid point.

Why didn't Pakistan allow reporters into the area where we claimed we struck?

 

[The Shrike]

we got what we wanted - chinese posts out of river bend PP14 + 1.4 km away from it

we have always welcomed a buffer zone - with both sides patrolling.

so really no issues there.




only seen ajay shukla explicitly put out a map stating this.

if this is true then most of the buffer is on our side.

but i dont think it is. that dude has some strange ideas.

Not referring to Ajay Shukla, but other veterans who have served (too lazy to find the it now). AFAIK all the conflict took place on the "Chinese" side of the bend - i.e. we were contesting their presence on the other side of the bend too. It's probably already been id-ed but do you know the location of the "tent" and the "bridge shown in this video (around 00:50s to 1:30s)?

 

[mokoman]

Not referring to Ajay Shukla, but other veterans who have served (too lazy to find the it now). AFAIK all the conflict took place on the "Chinese" side of the bend - i.e. we were contesting their presence on the other side of the bend too. It's probably already been id-ed but do you know the location of the "tent" and the "bridge shown in this video (around 00:50s to 1:30s)?

we thrashed them at chinese buffer zone end , 1.4km from PP14

we killed them there.

do u have vid of veterans saying PP14 was not at bend.

i know people claim that , i am not expert or anything , just want to know truth even if its bad.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

While India lost 20men, US intelligence stated PLA lost 42 men.
End of story.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

While India lost 20men, US intelligence stated PLA lost 42 men.
End of story.

US intelligence said that or some media quoted 42 as a number by US intelligence?

 

[Foxbat]

While India lost 20men, US intelligence stated PLA lost 42 men.
End of story.

Yes because US intelligence is never wrong . WMDs in Iraq, recent drone strike in Kabul....

I would like to believe that China lost 42 soldiers and a large number were captured but with the lack of any visual proof and the existence of proof of a strong counter narrative a layman would definitely raise questions.

 

[The Shrike]

we thrashed them at chinese buffer zone end , 1.4km from PP14

we killed them there.

do u have vid of veterans saying PP14 was not at bend.

i know people claim that , i am not expert or anything , just want to know truth even if its bad.

I believe trashed them AT pp14 (that is 1-1.5km from the bend), and now it is in the buffer zone. Will see what I can find, But the whole dispute would no make sense, unless we were the ones encroaching beyond our own "perception".

 

[Jimih]

Let's not talk about energy shortage when most of our power plants have a day's worth of coal in reserve.

This can happen if India falls into Globalist's "Climate Change" jumla.

India must not abandon its enormous Coal reserves just for Globalists endorsed "Green Energy"

Texas state in USA just suffered massively last winter just for abandoning Coal based Thermal power plants in favour of less potential Solar and Hydro Electricity. Same with China, they boycotted Australian coal.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Yes because US intelligence is never wrong . WMDs in Iraq, recent drone strike in Kabul....

I would like to believe that China lost 42 soldiers and a large number were captured but with the lack of any visual proof and the existence of proof of a strong counter narrative a layman would definitely raise questions.

How can you be sure that videos/pics you see can’t be doctored? Folks like you will never believe anything then. US intel in this case coincides with Indian intel, which gives a lot more credibility.
Unless you wish to believe Chinese sources saying only 4 PLA were lost.

There’s literally a video of a PLA soldier crying on the ground with IA guys all around him.

 

[mokoman]

Indian media wrong as always

doklam standoff, 2014 . crazy

I believe trashed them AT pp14 (that is 1-1.5km from the bend), and now it is in the buffer zone. Will see what I can find, But the whole dispute would no make sense, unless we were the ones encroaching beyond our own "perception".

Ajay shukla marked it as about 1km away from bend

we crossed even that point and thrashed them.

reason y we crossed ahead of river bend was to prevent chinese from building road .

we crossed on May and setup tents (pic below) . we then removed everything outside river bend on May 27.

chinese then backstabbed us.

i maybe wrong , but i cant find *any* source saying otherwise apart from shukla

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

How can you be sure that videos/pics you see can’t be doctored? Folks like you will never believe anything then. US intel in this case coincides with Indian intel, which gives a lot more credibility.
Unless you wish to believe Chinese sources saying only 4 PLA were lost.

There’s literally a video of a PLA soldier crying on the ground with IA guys all around him.

Which doctored pic? And where have US intelligence commented on PLA casualties?

 

[Foxbat]

US intelligence said that or some media quoted 42 as a number by US intelligence?

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/world/asia/china-india-clash.html

Another good account of what happened in 1967.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/17/world/asia/india-china-border-clashes.html

Disclaimer: NYtimes is a blatantly anti-India and anti-Modi propaganda tabloid usually.