India-China 2020 Border conflict

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Jimih

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And Jimih, I really want your corps to spare the 57div for lac duties, Assam rifles are good enough to handle CI Ops
You are right the 57 Mtn Div is too much involved in CI ops especially against NSCN and other NE rebels. It was raised for this purpose but roles should be changed by now.
 
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Thundering13th

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You are right the 57 Mtn Div is too much involved in CI ops especially against NSCN and other NE rebels. It was raised for this purpose but roles should be changed by now.
IGAR (N) IGAR(S) IGAR(E) are there right bro? I dont think 57 is going to make much difference
 

mokoman

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Can anyone post this article pls I really want to read it


@mist_consecutive @mokoman
Somnath Mukherjee
Aug 11, 2021, 18:52 IST



The China import issue, to a large extent, is a bogey. India’s vulnerabilities are far less than is popularly believed. Our responses, therefore, need to be deliberate rather than paranoid, focused on key areas like active pharmaceutical ingredients (APIs) and rare earth metals
The concept of Group Think was first introduced by psychologist Irving Janis in 1971. He described it as a situation where “individuals tend to refrain from expressing doubts and judgments or disagreeing with the consensus.” While Group Think is widely prevalent in several social contexts, its presence in higher policy-making and inferences can have outsized impact. Perhaps the most well-known example of Group Think in recorded history is the Bay of Pigs invasion. A CIA operation to overthrow the new revolutionary government of Fidel Castro in Cuba, it failed spectacularly and became the showpiece evidence of how groups of smart people rush to consensus without fully analysing the data.

India’s trade dependence on China falls in the same category — the overwhelming consensus in the commentariat is that there is a structural and large import-dependence, one that China can use as a geopolitical weapon in times of sharp political contestations. Headline numbers are trotted out in support — how imports from China have kept going up despite Government of India’s Atmanirbhar campaign and backlash against Chinese goods post-Galwan. There is also a suggestion that China has been able to weaponise its trade surplus with India, using the surplus for enhanced military expenditure while making India “dependent” on Chinese imports for day to day economic life. Most of the hypotheses are in the realm of myths rather than facts.
Myth #1 – India imports too much from China
China is the largest trading nation in the world – its trade volumes with all countries are very high. It is a function of both China’s size as an economy (at $14 trillion, the second largest in the world) as well as its manufacturing prowess. For India, China accounts for 15-16% of aggregate imports (20-21% of non-oil imports). This number is actually lower than many major economies in the world, and most major economies in Asia. US, Australia and Japan — fellow members of the Quad — have more than 20% of their imports originating from China.
India’s import concentration with China, while it went up sharply from 10% in 2010 to 16% in 2017, has stabilised at the latter levels now. For some of the more critical, truly strategic import categories, the trend has either reversed or there is energetic effort underway to reduce dependencies.
Myth 2 –India is dependent on China for imports, creating strategic leverage
This is perhaps the most important hypothesis, meriting closest scrutiny. The largest components of Chinese imports are heavy electricals and machinery, power equipment and organic chemicals. A few trends are quite clear from the chart below.

In absolute terms, the largest category — electrical and electronics goods — are on their way down in absolute terms. The Production Linked Incentive (PLI) programmes rolled out over the last couple of years initially focused largely on this segment, and as capacities under the programme come on stream, the impact is likely to be felt even more. Above all, most of these areas are not “monopoly chokeholds”, i.e, there are alternative sources of supply including domestic, albeit at higher prices.
The same holds true for the second largest category of imports – power equipment. Very similar to electricals and electronics, this is an area where China has built a price advantage over global (and Indian) suppliers over the years, and the current dominance is a function of that relative price advantage. A mix of tariff walls, PLI incentives and the US-sponsored global movement of supply chain diversification (popularly termed as China + 1 in trade circles) are creating insurance against China-enforced supply disruptions. Significantly again, China does not have a supply monopoly choke-hold here either – ergo, sourcing from elsewhere is a function of price rather than availability in many cases.
It is the third category — organic chemicals — where things are trickier. It includes active pharmaceutical ingredients (API), the essential intermediate input for a vast majority of pharmaceuticals. China is a dominant global manufacturer of APIs, and this could represent a significant tricky dependence. Till about a decade back, India was self-sufficient in APIs, before much cheaper Chinese capacities drive most pharma companies towards imports. Good news is that there are no great technology hurdles in the segment, merely one of cost and capacity. Already, several Indian companies are investing heavily in the area. Over the next few years, the dependence on China will likely come down.
It is actually in a smaller (by absolute $ value) category, rare earth metals, that there are critical strategic issues. China is the source of a range of rare earth metals that are used in critical electronics, telecommunication and other hi-tech equipment. It isn’t an India-specific problem, the world is grappling with the same. The Chinese dominance in the area was sparked off by gradual US withdrawal from mining/processing of rare earth oxides and simultaneous large investments by China. Already, a US-sponsored globally coordinated effort under President Biden’s diversification of supply chain initiative is underway. But this is likely to take time and careful handling by India.
Myth 3 – India’s strategic nirvana would be to cut down on consumer goods production
There is a general (mostly economist wisdom driven) hypothesis that too much of India’s China imports are to fuel elite consumer goods (like cars and mobile phones) and India needs to wean off an economic model that fuels production of such import-intensive consumer goods. This is equivalent of cutting one’s nose to spite one’s face. Industries like automobiles, consumer electronics and mobile phones are not only clusters of large-scale manufacturing employment, they also provide enormous network benefits by spawning entire eco-systems of finance, supply-chain and other related services. They also engender manufacturing exports — small cars, eg, is a rare manufacturing export success story from India. India’s strategic vulnerabilities will rise (and not go lower) in case critical manufacturing bases are hollowed out in an attempt to curb imports. Imports from anywhere, China or otherwise, are not “bad”, and exports of anything is not tautologically “good”. Both are economic transactions with outcomes – the focus has to be on outcomes rather than inputs.
The China import issue, to a large extent, is a bogey. India’s vulnerabilities, as seen above, are far less than is popularly believed. India’s also part of the recent global trend towards de-globalisation, which is actually nothing too different from redundancies in supply chains (which in turn is elementary risk management strategy, forgotten for too long). Our responses, therefore, need to be deliberate rather than paranoid, focused on key areas (like APIs and rare earth metals) rather than looking to up-end all benefits from liberalised trade that have accrued to India since the 1991 reforms. In a nutshell, Groupthink pitfalls need to be zealously avoided!
The author is the Managing Partner and CIO, ASK Wealth Advisors
 

Crazywithmath

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It is actually in a smaller (by absolute $ value) category, rare earth metals, that there are critical strategic issues. China is the source of a range of rare earth metals that are used in critical electronics, telecommunication and other hi-tech equipment. It isn’t an India-specific problem, the world is grappling with the same. The Chinese dominance in the area was sparked off by gradual US withdrawal from mining/processing of rare earth oxides and simultaneous large investments by China. Already, a US-sponsored globally coordinated effort under President Biden’s diversification of supply chain initiative is underway. But this is likely to take time and careful handling by India.
This part is significant. Last time out they spanked Japan really hard. Apparently India has large rare earth metal reserves; does anyone have any knowledge on why this sector is so ignored? The western nations did not want to refine those metals because it has environmental consequences. China had lax regulations on environment protection and stuff so they happily relocated those to China. Are environmental issues stopping us? Even the recently passed and much touted mining reforms do not talk about rare earth metals either. Can anyone enlighten?
 

Abdus Salem killed

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This part is significant. Last time out they spanked Japan really hard. Apparently India has large rare earth metal reserves; does anyone have any knowledge on why this sector is so ignored? The western nations did not want to refine those metals because it has environmental consequences. China had lax regulations on environment protection and stuff so they happily relocated those to China. Are environmental issues stopping us? Even the recently passed and much touted mining reforms do not talk about rare earth metals either. Can anyone enlighten?
Are environmental issues stopping us?
Yes

I hAve heard that below andman and Nicobar islands the largest reserves of gas and oil are found due to it being connected to a certain tectonic plate but no one explores it
 

ym888

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Somnath Mukherjee
Aug 11, 2021, 18:52 IST



The China import issue, to a large extent, is a bogey. India’s vulnerabilities are far less than is popularly believed. Our responses, therefore, need to be deliberate rather than paranoid, focused on key areas like active pharmaceutical ingredients (APIs) and rare earth metals
The concept of Group Think was first introduced by psychologist Irving Janis in 1971. He described it as a situation where “individuals tend to refrain from expressing doubts and judgments or disagreeing with the consensus.” While Group Think is widely prevalent in several social contexts, its presence in higher policy-making and inferences can have outsized impact. Perhaps the most well-known example of Group Think in recorded history is the Bay of Pigs invasion. A CIA operation to overthrow the new revolutionary government of Fidel Castro in Cuba, it failed spectacularly and became the showpiece evidence of how groups of smart people rush to consensus without fully analysing the data.

India’s trade dependence on China falls in the same category — the overwhelming consensus in the commentariat is that there is a structural and large import-dependence, one that China can use as a geopolitical weapon in times of sharp political contestations. Headline numbers are trotted out in support — how imports from China have kept going up despite Government of India’s Atmanirbhar campaign and backlash against Chinese goods post-Galwan. There is also a suggestion that China has been able to weaponise its trade surplus with India, using the surplus for enhanced military expenditure while making India “dependent” on Chinese imports for day to day economic life. Most of the hypotheses are in the realm of myths rather than facts.
Myth #1 – India imports too much from China
China is the largest trading nation in the world – its trade volumes with all countries are very high. It is a function of both China’s size as an economy (at $14 trillion, the second largest in the world) as well as its manufacturing prowess. For India, China accounts for 15-16% of aggregate imports (20-21% of non-oil imports). This number is actually lower than many major economies in the world, and most major economies in Asia. US, Australia and Japan — fellow members of the Quad — have more than 20% of their imports originating from China.
India’s import concentration with China, while it went up sharply from 10% in 2010 to 16% in 2017, has stabilised at the latter levels now. For some of the more critical, truly strategic import categories, the trend has either reversed or there is energetic effort underway to reduce dependencies.
Myth 2 –India is dependent on China for imports, creating strategic leverage
This is perhaps the most important hypothesis, meriting closest scrutiny. The largest components of Chinese imports are heavy electricals and machinery, power equipment and organic chemicals. A few trends are quite clear from the chart below.

In absolute terms, the largest category — electrical and electronics goods — are on their way down in absolute terms. The Production Linked Incentive (PLI) programmes rolled out over the last couple of years initially focused largely on this segment, and as capacities under the programme come on stream, the impact is likely to be felt even more. Above all, most of these areas are not “monopoly chokeholds”, i.e, there are alternative sources of supply including domestic, albeit at higher prices.
The same holds true for the second largest category of imports – power equipment. Very similar to electricals and electronics, this is an area where China has built a price advantage over global (and Indian) suppliers over the years, and the current dominance is a function of that relative price advantage. A mix of tariff walls, PLI incentives and the US-sponsored global movement of supply chain diversification (popularly termed as China + 1 in trade circles) are creating insurance against China-enforced supply disruptions. Significantly again, China does not have a supply monopoly choke-hold here either – ergo, sourcing from elsewhere is a function of price rather than availability in many cases.
It is the third category — organic chemicals — where things are trickier. It includes active pharmaceutical ingredients (API), the essential intermediate input for a vast majority of pharmaceuticals. China is a dominant global manufacturer of APIs, and this could represent a significant tricky dependence. Till about a decade back, India was self-sufficient in APIs, before much cheaper Chinese capacities drive most pharma companies towards imports. Good news is that there are no great technology hurdles in the segment, merely one of cost and capacity. Already, several Indian companies are investing heavily in the area. Over the next few years, the dependence on China will likely come down.
It is actually in a smaller (by absolute $ value) category, rare earth metals, that there are critical strategic issues. China is the source of a range of rare earth metals that are used in critical electronics, telecommunication and other hi-tech equipment. It isn’t an India-specific problem, the world is grappling with the same. The Chinese dominance in the area was sparked off by gradual US withdrawal from mining/processing of rare earth oxides and simultaneous large investments by China. Already, a US-sponsored globally coordinated effort under President Biden’s diversification of supply chain initiative is underway. But this is likely to take time and careful handling by India.
Myth 3 – India’s strategic nirvana would be to cut down on consumer goods production
There is a general (mostly economist wisdom driven) hypothesis that too much of India’s China imports are to fuel elite consumer goods (like cars and mobile phones) and India needs to wean off an economic model that fuels production of such import-intensive consumer goods. This is equivalent of cutting one’s nose to spite one’s face. Industries like automobiles, consumer electronics and mobile phones are not only clusters of large-scale manufacturing employment, they also provide enormous network benefits by spawning entire eco-systems of finance, supply-chain and other related services. They also engender manufacturing exports — small cars, eg, is a rare manufacturing export success story from India. India’s strategic vulnerabilities will rise (and not go lower) in case critical manufacturing bases are hollowed out in an attempt to curb imports. Imports from anywhere, China or otherwise, are not “bad”, and exports of anything is not tautologically “good”. Both are economic transactions with outcomes – the focus has to be on outcomes rather than inputs.
The China import issue, to a large extent, is a bogey. India’s vulnerabilities, as seen above, are far less than is popularly believed. India’s also part of the recent global trend towards de-globalisation, which is actually nothing too different from redundancies in supply chains (which in turn is elementary risk management strategy, forgotten for too long). Our responses, therefore, need to be deliberate rather than paranoid, focused on key areas (like APIs and rare earth metals) rather than looking to up-end all benefits from liberalised trade that have accrued to India since the 1991 reforms. In a nutshell, Groupthink pitfalls need to be zealously avoided!
The author is the Managing Partner and CIO, ASK Wealth Advisors
There are about 92.61 million tons of known rare earth deposits in the world, about 36 percent of which are stored in China.

Other countries with rare earth resources include the Commonwealth of Independent States (19%), the United States (13%), Australia (5%), India (3.14%), Canada, South Africa, Brazil, Malaysia and Vietnam, while the European Union and Japan have virtually no rare earth resources. Their rare earth sources are mainly imported from China [3].
 

ym888

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Indian logic pre-2014: we deliberately did not develop border infrastructure to slow down an adversary’s ingress into our territory

Dont see why this cant be flipped now.

Let china build all the bullet trains and fancy roads at the border.

It will only benefit us when we take over these areas :lehappy::cruisin2:
Don't worry, the chance of war between the two countries is zero.
 
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