India-China 2020 Border conflict

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shade

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I absolutely agree , ruskal moskals are not trust worthy .
Not that they ever were .
It's not traditional , indira gandy was helped by kgb .
The over reliance on russian weapons is a extreme cause of concern .
If we wanted to buy god damn ak type rifle, could have got from Bulgaria .
Whats so bad about ak versions made in india ?
They don't have good opinions for us either .
They are christian. Nazis who hate heathens for that matter .
Think so highly of them selves as if they have forgotten their aukat , that thy are not ussr .
It's good we are going away from ruchuk dalals .
Their export to india is falling .
The ofb insas of 7.62 mm was good .
Only issue with ofb is quality control plus deranged babus and some sold army officers , who have kept down India's defence industry .By sleeping with Natasha's , leots and joans .
And of course easy visa and seat for their litters in foreign university .
How to cure this malaise is a concern .
Drdo among all involved is most blameless .
So because of ofb workmanship , babu of defence ministry and some army officers like of chuckla or panag ,these Slavic monkies call us incapable .
We have fucking 41 ofb factories .
You do realize the magnitude of weapons they can make , if worked properly .
They are trustworthy but you'd be blind no not see in which country's camp they are today.
It is only a matter of time before they go full hostile towards us.
China has made massive investments in Russia, and remains their largest trading partner https://oec.world/en/profile/country/rus/

We'll be forced into strategic autonomy if Budhen decides to do flip-floppery and doesn't allow US to fully support us in the future, hopefully having no maai-baap will light the fire under GOI's behinds to make Army/AF more atmanirbhar.
 

ezsasa

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As Michel Pettis said. All these nations are surplus nations.. they need a deficit nation like India or US to make Ch**iya of.. and such pacts between surplus nations are not very stable.. as they will be competing to offload their surpluses on each other..
they may not be selling to each other per say, but now CCP has the opportunity to dictate the supply chains of component manufacturing & electronics assembly plants in these countries.

in the long run, RCEP will become the benami for Chinese products, where ever there are Chinese import restrictions, Chinese companies will push their goods thru RCEP countries. This is already happening, but now it will be formalised.
 

Knowitall

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Anyways I see huge problem for India I'm the coming future

A good answer I found which explains the situation:-

For ASEAN, this deal basically integrates the various FTA's that ASEAN has with the RCEP members. You'll notice the inconsistencies which RCEP would eventually standardize amongst its members. Apart from Tariff reduction and elimination, the agreement would establish common rules for investment, e-commerce, services, trade, and intellectual property. Most importantly, this agreement would solidify ASEAN as a major cog in the global supply chain especially as manufacturing shifts throughout the region.

Japan: This agreement would be Japan's first FTA with China and South Korea, as it already has existing agreements with the rest of the RCEP members. Coupled with the CPTPP and EUJEPA, Japan would solidify it's economic relationship and status in the region.

South Korea: As indicated earlier, this is South Korea's first agreement with Japan. Similar with Japan, this deal would solidify the nation's economic relations with the region.

Australia and New Zealand: This agreement further integrate both nations to the region especially in areas or sectors not covered with their existing FTA's. Considering the how ASEAN would drive the global growth engine, it would fare well for Australia to expand its possible export markets.

China: As mentioned earlier, this is China's first trade agreement with Japan and it's first Multilateral Trade Agreement. This deal basically consolidates China's economic influence in the region whether through trade or investments. Common rules for investment, e-commerce, services, trade, and intellectual property would further entrench Chinese companies within the region especially ASEAN by easing the shift away from low-end manufacturing and moving further up the value-chain.

India: I reckon that India's withdrawal from the agreement would hinder India's plans to lure global manufacturing from China. ASEAN seems like a big winner here as this FTA would ensure that they gain and attract a significant portion of the global supply chain and investments (I recall reading that ASEAN, as a whole, already eclipsed India as a major recepient of FDI). Nevertheless, I do agree that RCEP resembles a "double edged Sword" for Indian policy makers. A rising trade deficit does have significant political ramifications, although, not having a say in the economic integration of the Asia Pacific Region would also be somewhat disadvantageous longterm. Take the ASEAN market for example, it was only on 2010 that the Indo-ASEAN Trade agreement took effect, later than ASEAN's other engagements with China ('05), Korea('07), and Japan('08). With consequent tariff reforms, this allowed them a significant lead time over India to consolidate their position in the ASEAN market. Honestly, RCEP would have pushed Indian policy makers to fully commit to economic reforms especially in the post-pandemic world to better their economic standing.

A ot of countries which don't have a trade agreement with each other will come closer.
 

shade

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India staying out of it is so much better than us hollowing out what remains of our manufacturing sector.. let them kiss each other's backsides.. Our geographic location is good enough that we will stay out of it and still prosper..
This is a Chinese scheme where every country has a role.

Chongland, Korea, Japan are all high end, expensive subcomponent/part/industrial machina/airplane/gas turbine/engine producers.

ASEAN ghulams focus on lower end manufacturing like electronics assembly, shoes, clothes, plastic items and also as a proxy for Chinese items to evade restrictions.
Machines parts and subcomponets for the ASEAN walas are provided by China Japan Korea

Asstralia provides minerals,metals etc and consooms products from the above

If India would be a part of this scheme it would only be a consoomer of finished products, even the assembly factories for cars and electronics here would vanish, and so would garment producing companies
 

another_armchair

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they may not be selling to each other per say, but now CCP has the opportunity to dictate the supply chains of component manufacturing & electronics assembly plants in these countries.

in the long run, RCEP will become the benami for Chinese products, where ever there are Chinese import restrictions, Chinese companies will push their goods thru RCEP countries. This is already happening, but now it will be formalised.
Just as their proxies in Taiwan, Singapore and Vietnam. CCP big bosses are capitalist hoarders by nature. They will invest their billions in ghost towns providing menial jobs for main land Chinese and continue expanding their private army to keep the Chinese people subjugated.

Two years back, we received a buyout proposal from a Singapore contact. Turned out to be a Chinese owned company. The top management was Chinese. We had outright refused to sell irrespective of the price offered.
They turned downright racist and nasty. During one such calls, they bluntly said we don't see India as competition. We will only use you and your services to target the US and EU. Idea is simple - use Indian services labor, a Singapore based brand name and wean business away from pricey US and EU service providers.
The Zoom meeting ended with some hilarious name calling by us till it was abruptly ended by their Mongolian boss who couldn't take the taunt from us that their world view is so narrow because of their slanted eyes. Poor f****r almost popped a vein. Thankfully, we didn't get to meet face to face as his visa applications were rejected repeatedly. Thank MEA for that. :rofl:

We are dealing with a very treacherous adversary. They will do to the world what they are doing to the Uighurs in Xinjiang if the world doesn't toe their line.

God help those who have boarded the RCEP bus. Same BRI like fate awaits their sorry souls.
 
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shade

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Also shifting of manufacturing in the Asian context follows geography closely.
i.e Japan was the father of post-war manufacturing, when it became expensive there corps shifted to Singapur, HK, Taiwan, Korea, then to majorly China, with Thailand, Malaysia receiving a miniscule share, and in recent years it is Vietnam.
Geography is apparently so important that the part of Indonesia that gets most Manufacturing related FDI is this island called Batam, Now Batam is very close to Singapore/Malaysia.
 

NAMICA

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Also shifting of manufacturing in the Asian context follows geography closely.
i.e Japan was the father of post-war manufacturing, when it became expensive there corps shifted to Singapur, HK, Taiwan, Korea, then to majorly China, with Thailand, Malaysia receiving a miniscule share, and in recent years it is Vietnam.
Geography is apparently so important that the part of Indonesia that gets most Manufacturing related FDI is this island called Batam, Now Batam is very close to Singapore/Malaysia.
ASEAN countries economy is growing due to FDI whereas in our case our internal demand can propel our economy for many decades.
 

Sanglamorre

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Michele Flournoy and her co-writer have minced no words in laying out the Chinese threat threadbare.
Short, crisp and to the point. If she indeed heads the Pentagon, I can say our AcheDin may continue. Depends on what the Dems have in mind.

@mods petition to urge members to post the whole article so we don't get stuck behind a paywall.

Pls.
 

shade

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@mods petition to urge members to post the whole article so we don't get stuck behind a paywall.

Pls.
Text of Article below

================


The writer, a former US Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, is co-founder of WestExec Advisors India and China engaged in their first deadly border skirmish since 1975 this week. Twenty Indian soldiers were killed in a clash with Chinese troops in the Galwan Valley, a disputed Himalayan border region. The news reminded me of working at the Pentagon a decade ago, leading the 2010 Quadrennial Defense Review, an assessment of US defence strategy and priorities. It was clear to us even then that “the rise of China, the world’s most populous country, and India, the world’s largest democracy” would “continue to shape an international system that is no longer easily defined”. The recent violence comes just weeks after Chinese soldiers crossed the contested “line of actual control” between the two countries. It is not the first time India and China have faced off over disputed borders, but this moment feels different. It comes as both countries are grappling with the Covid-19 pandemic, as case counts rise dramatically in India, and as China reimposes restrictions in Beijing after a new outbreak. It is also the most serious stand-off since China became a major power. China’s military expenditures have grown from roughly even in 1989 with India’s to more than triple in size in 2019. The dispute underscores wider trends in the Indo-Pacific and should serve as a wake-up call for the region. First, China’s approach to this latest dispute is yet another sign of the country’s growing assertiveness. Beijing has regarded the decade since the 2008 financial crisis as a period of American decline and Chinese “strategic opportunity”. It has used coercive measures to enforce excessive maritime claims, pursued an expansive global infrastructure development strategy, modernised its armed forces, and executed a multibillion-dollar state-directed campaign to develop (and steal) key emerging technologies. Recommended Rachman Review podcast19 min listen India’s twin crises: coronavirus and China This more aggressive China has forced US foreign policy experts to largely abandon a decades-long consensus that Washington could influence Beijing to become a “responsible stakeholder” in global affairs. Today, the watchword in Washington is “strategic competitor.” In this context, the Sino-Indian border confrontation is yet another example of Beijing testing the limits of how far it can go while India and the US are preoccupied with the pandemic and its devastating economic impact. Such opportunism is not new, but the crisis has put China’s aggressiveness in starker relief. Its vessels have collided with foreign ships in the South China Sea. Japan protests that its vessels are being harassed in the East China Sea. Chinese aircraft have encroached upon Taiwan, and Beijing has promulgated a new national security law for Hong Kong that seriously erodes its liberties. If China truly wants to portray itself as a “responsible great power” it must start acting like one and put aside its longstanding reluctance to resolve territorial disputes through good-faith negotiations and compromise. Second, the Sino-Indian dispute illustrates the stakes of competition in the Indo-Pacific. As a senior US state department official has said, the dispute is a “reminder that Chinese aggression is not always just rhetorical”. An Indo-Pacific dominated by China and its “might makes right” approach would be a vastly different place than the region today. China’s excessive maritime claims have clearly shown that freedom of navigation is one norm that is vulnerable to Chinese incursions. The dispute with India now shows that the inviolability of borders and the norm of peaceful resolution of disputes are also at risk. Third, the dispute should serve as yet another wake-up call to accelerate and deepen security co-operation among like-minded states. While geopolitics in the region is often portrayed as a bilateral contest between the US and China, in reality there is a collection of democracies whose interests increasingly converge. The Quadrilateral Security Dialogue between Japan, the US, India and Australia is a particularly good example on which we could build. Launched in 2007 and revitalised in 2017, “the Quad” has deepened the diplomatic and security ties among leading democracies. Recent co-operation includes a deal by India and Australia to access each other’s military bases, a visiting forces agreement between Australia and Japan, and India’s consideration of inviting Australia to join military exercises with the US and Japan. The incident at Galwan should serve as a clarion call to these major democracies, and other countries who are anxious about Chinese intentions and capabilities, to strengthen their bilateral and multilateral security co-operation. In principle, it is a moment that demands US leadership to convene and mobilise the region’s democracies. In practice, however, that may have to wait for a new occupant in the White House. International order is not self-organising. A security environment conducive to democracies flourishing is not a birthright. It is a cherished legacy of sacrifices by the US, its allies and its partners that can only be preserved if the region’s democracies recognise and take steps to protect their common interests and values. Without such a strategy, China will continue pushing boundaries, posing unacceptable risks to international order. Josh Hochman, an associate at WestExec Advisors, co-wrote this piece

====================================
 

NAMICA

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Text of Article below

================


The writer, a former US Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, is co-founder of WestExec Advisors India and China engaged in their first deadly border skirmish since 1975 this week. Twenty Indian soldiers were killed in a clash with Chinese troops in the Galwan Valley, a disputed Himalayan border region. The news reminded me of working at the Pentagon a decade ago, leading the 2010 Quadrennial Defense Review, an assessment of US defence strategy and priorities. It was clear to us even then that “the rise of China, the world’s most populous country, and India, the world’s largest democracy” would “continue to shape an international system that is no longer easily defined”. The recent violence comes just weeks after Chinese soldiers crossed the contested “line of actual control” between the two countries. It is not the first time India and China have faced off over disputed borders, but this moment feels different. It comes as both countries are grappling with the Covid-19 pandemic, as case counts rise dramatically in India, and as China reimposes restrictions in Beijing after a new outbreak. It is also the most serious stand-off since China became a major power. China’s military expenditures have grown from roughly even in 1989 with India’s to more than triple in size in 2019. The dispute underscores wider trends in the Indo-Pacific and should serve as a wake-up call for the region. First, China’s approach to this latest dispute is yet another sign of the country’s growing assertiveness. Beijing has regarded the decade since the 2008 financial crisis as a period of American decline and Chinese “strategic opportunity”. It has used coercive measures to enforce excessive maritime claims, pursued an expansive global infrastructure development strategy, modernised its armed forces, and executed a multibillion-dollar state-directed campaign to develop (and steal) key emerging technologies. Recommended Rachman Review podcast19 min listen India’s twin crises: coronavirus and China This more aggressive China has forced US foreign policy experts to largely abandon a decades-long consensus that Washington could influence Beijing to become a “responsible stakeholder” in global affairs. Today, the watchword in Washington is “strategic competitor.” In this context, the Sino-Indian border confrontation is yet another example of Beijing testing the limits of how far it can go while India and the US are preoccupied with the pandemic and its devastating economic impact. Such opportunism is not new, but the crisis has put China’s aggressiveness in starker relief. Its vessels have collided with foreign ships in the South China Sea. Japan protests that its vessels are being harassed in the East China Sea. Chinese aircraft have encroached upon Taiwan, and Beijing has promulgated a new national security law for Hong Kong that seriously erodes its liberties. If China truly wants to portray itself as a “responsible great power” it must start acting like one and put aside its longstanding reluctance to resolve territorial disputes through good-faith negotiations and compromise. Second, the Sino-Indian dispute illustrates the stakes of competition in the Indo-Pacific. As a senior US state department official has said, the dispute is a “reminder that Chinese aggression is not always just rhetorical”. An Indo-Pacific dominated by China and its “might makes right” approach would be a vastly different place than the region today. China’s excessive maritime claims have clearly shown that freedom of navigation is one norm that is vulnerable to Chinese incursions. The dispute with India now shows that the inviolability of borders and the norm of peaceful resolution of disputes are also at risk. Third, the dispute should serve as yet another wake-up call to accelerate and deepen security co-operation among like-minded states. While geopolitics in the region is often portrayed as a bilateral contest between the US and China, in reality there is a collection of democracies whose interests increasingly converge. The Quadrilateral Security Dialogue between Japan, the US, India and Australia is a particularly good example on which we could build. Launched in 2007 and revitalised in 2017, “the Quad” has deepened the diplomatic and security ties among leading democracies. Recent co-operation includes a deal by India and Australia to access each other’s military bases, a visiting forces agreement between Australia and Japan, and India’s consideration of inviting Australia to join military exercises with the US and Japan. The incident at Galwan should serve as a clarion call to these major democracies, and other countries who are anxious about Chinese intentions and capabilities, to strengthen their bilateral and multilateral security co-operation. In principle, it is a moment that demands US leadership to convene and mobilise the region’s democracies. In practice, however, that may have to wait for a new occupant in the White House. International order is not self-organising. A security environment conducive to democracies flourishing is not a birthright. It is a cherished legacy of sacrifices by the US, its allies and its partners that can only be preserved if the region’s democracies recognise and take steps to protect their common interests and values. Without such a strategy, China will continue pushing boundaries, posing unacceptable risks to international order. Josh Hochman, an associate at WestExec Advisors, co-wrote this piece

====================================
In short QUAD.
 

shade

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ASEAN countries economy is growing due to FDI whereas in our case our internal demand can propel our economy for many decades.
It can provide the "spark" but it is not enough to carry our economy on it's own, exports are the way forward.
Probably will also give extra work to babooze to negotiate trade deals with consooma economies like the Anglophone big 5, EU, Japan, Korea etc.

It was free when I posted the link. Wonder how much traffic was driven to the FT article after posting the link on DFI that they chose to paywall it.
Direct link goes to paywall, you have to google the headline, then in search results click on the FT article, then the text shows, keep cookies and js disabled though.
Fuck paywalls.
 

JBH22

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Russia has made its stand crystal clear that it is with China and that's a subtle or direct message to Quad.

Russia played China's pimp and led India on when China was amassing troops in Tibet.

Russia abandoned Armenia. Nothing more needs to be said on the subject.
Wrong Russia did not abandon Armenia.
The current Armenian PM wanted to shift gear and move to western camp. When shit hit the fan they went crying to Russia.
 

shade

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Wrong Russia did not abandon Armenia.
The current Armenian PM wanted to shift gear and move to western camp. When shit hit the fan they went crying to Russia.
They did abandon Armenia but it was punishment basically, to show them that their new Western sugar daddies won't bail them out against the Azeris and Turkey Turki.
Which did happen, Armenia is now Dhobi ka kutta, na ghar ka na ghat ka.

In our context it is different, Russia will dump us if US pressure on them increases under Budhen raaj, making them totally dependent on the Chinese, and the Chinese will ask for their pound of flesh, and Ruskie will oblige to save their own hide.

We are no little Armenia, we are a 5000 year old high population civilization that has endured some 1200-1500 years of foreign rule, and all our "rulers" have been consigned to the dustbin of History, and Britain is on it's way there.
By size and potential we are a Great Power, better start build up ourselves and start acting like one.
 

Shashank Nayak

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Anyways I see huge problem for India I'm the coming future

A good answer I found which explains the situation:-

For ASEAN, this deal basically integrates the various FTA's that ASEAN has with the RCEP members. You'll notice the inconsistencies which RCEP would eventually standardize amongst its members. Apart from Tariff reduction and elimination, the agreement would establish common rules for investment, e-commerce, services, trade, and intellectual property. Most importantly, this agreement would solidify ASEAN as a major cog in the global supply chain especially as manufacturing shifts throughout the region.

Japan: This agreement would be Japan's first FTA with China and South Korea, as it already has existing agreements with the rest of the RCEP members. Coupled with the CPTPP and EUJEPA, Japan would solidify it's economic relationship and status in the region.

South Korea: As indicated earlier, this is South Korea's first agreement with Japan. Similar with Japan, this deal would solidify the nation's economic relations with the region.

Australia and New Zealand: This agreement further integrate both nations to the region especially in areas or sectors not covered with their existing FTA's. Considering the how ASEAN would drive the global growth engine, it would fare well for Australia to expand its possible export markets.

China: As mentioned earlier, this is China's first trade agreement with Japan and it's first Multilateral Trade Agreement. This deal basically consolidates China's economic influence in the region whether through trade or investments. Common rules for investment, e-commerce, services, trade, and intellectual property would further entrench Chinese companies within the region especially ASEAN by easing the shift away from low-end manufacturing and moving further up the value-chain.

India: I reckon that India's withdrawal from the agreement would hinder India's plans to lure global manufacturing from China. ASEAN seems like a big winner here as this FTA would ensure that they gain and attract a significant portion of the global supply chain and investments (I recall reading that ASEAN, as a whole, already eclipsed India as a major recepient of FDI). Nevertheless, I do agree that RCEP resembles a "double edged Sword" for Indian policy makers. A rising trade deficit does have significant political ramifications, although, not having a say in the economic integration of the Asia Pacific Region would also be somewhat disadvantageous longterm. Take the ASEAN market for example, it was only on 2010 that the Indo-ASEAN Trade agreement took effect, later than ASEAN's other engagements with China ('05), Korea('07), and Japan('08). With consequent tariff reforms, this allowed them a significant lead time over India to consolidate their position in the ASEAN market. Honestly, RCEP would have pushed Indian policy makers to fully commit to economic reforms especially in the post-pandemic world to better their economic standing.

A ot of countries which don't have a trade agreement with each other will come closer.
Its an ideal world you are talking about. Though competition is essential, Asean already have ultra low tariffs, the market we would gain would be miniscule compared to the market share and jobs we would be giving away. India learnt a lot about the various barriers especially non tariff that these east asians use to deny market access to foreigners, during RCEP negotiations. Also, being part of RCEP, cant be our way of countering chinese influence, like some smart ass analysts argue.. Our small market wont do anything to wean away asean mofos from the huge chinese t*ts .. India would only end up getting molested..
 

mokoman

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Claim is of Indian soldiers being made to vomit/throw up
:dude: how would you use a directed energy weapon without a clear line of sight ?

and that too the top of black top. i know sonic waves bend around corners and can hug landscapes due to

diffraction , but to my knowledge microwaves travel in straight line.

Lol , they microwaved top of mountain - god tier bullshitting and people keep posting it over and over.
 

NAMICA

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:dude: how would you use a directed energy weapon without a clear line of sight ?

and that too the top of black top. i know sonic waves bend around corners and can hug landscapes due to

diffraction , but to my knowledge microwaves travel in straight line.

Lol , they microwaved top of mountain - god tier bullshitting and people keep posting it over and over.
"CCP expert" this word alone tells every thing
 
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