India-China 2020 Border conflict

johnq

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Sir, this may also be a "Dil ko behlane ko Ghalib khayal achchha hai" type sentence. Who knows what Russia supplied to China is severely downgraded indeed. Is it possible to accept downgraded weaponry by China? No doubt Russians helped us in many programs but simultaneously they helped China also. They would have even helped Pakistan but for Pakistan was the ally of USA and later on Pakistan did not have enough money to buy weapons from Russia. As far as the reverse engineering is concerned, one may visit any research institute in India, save exceptions, so It will be of no good to say about reverse engineering.
That is why I said, if you ask people "in the know."
Here is what I said:
While it's true that China has been a customer of Russian weapons, it's also true that everything Russia has sold to China so far has been severely downgraded in terms of technology. Ask anyone "in the know," and they will tell you the same thing.
Russia sells better technology to India precisely because India respects IP laws, and that is also why Russia has partnered with India in projects like Brahmos, as well as secretly helped in nuclear submarine technology. A lot more goes on behind the scenes with Russia and India than is known to the public. Don't go by what is published in media, often the writers have their own agendas.
There are people that you can talk to (Russia/China experts), who know how crappy and severely downgraded the stuff Russia sells to China really is, and will tell you the same thing I am saying. If you think about it, it makes sense, because why would Russia sell quality weapons to China when it knows that China will simply copy it. You don't have to take my word for it. Ask around. There are Russia and China experts that post on forums and blogs, and you can also track down some on Twitter, even ex-Air Force guys.
Russians have a trust level with India where they are willing to even co-develop weapons systems, from scramjets to radar technology to nuclear submarine technology.
Russians don't trust Chinese at all. I know the weapons the Russians sell to China may "look the same," but the electronic components of those weapons (the brains) are severely downgraded crap. Again, don't go by what is published in the media, or wikipedia. The media is filled with paid drones that work on behalf of China to push Russia away from India.
 
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Synergy

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View attachment 64574

GB and Kashmir aren't indipendent nations. those are integral part of India.

ott :

good...

 

Synergy

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Any opinions on the below article ? Is it mainly the lure of routine phoren tours for Army officers and babus, that things are at such a pass.. and no serious effort was made on mission mode to locally produce such clothing ?
sorry for answering your queries without going through that article. (will read later). I'm answering from my first hand experience.

my hobby is trekking and I've done basic mountaineering course.
on the mountain, I probably won't touch any gear made in India.

we don't have any quality trekking shoe. best (cheapest) option is Quechua and that's a French company.
if we look for quality then Saloman (trekking) or Scrapa, Koflach, La Sportiva (trekking and/or mountaineering).

no local made quality down jacket, sleeping bag, tent, rucksack etc. army supply is somewhat good but bulky. but not at par with imported one.

even we don't have any good local merino wool base layer or quick dry t-shirt, pant.

(not touching technical gears).

Wildcraft is trying a bit but they are far behind foreign companies.

and we go there just for entertainment whereas Army to fight.

point me to any good local made -40 degree gear. a single one.

(from the pictures of ofb tents, I'm little bit impressed on those. it's a good try).

sorry but the situation is very grim. probably no R&D.

P.S. : US seals used Saloman Quest 3d GTX and Saloman is a private entity.
 
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Cheran

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Army finds PLA’s condition that India should only patrol till Finger 3 of Pangong Tso unacceptable as it means that Finger 4 will become part of occupied Aksai Chin
New Delhi has also rejected Beijing’s proposal that the Indian Army vacate the Rezang La -Rechin La ridge-line on the south bank of the Pangong Tso first as part of the disengagement process.
 

12arya

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utubekhiladi

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China tries to negotiate sweet deal to step back in Ladakh. India won’t bite


the sad part is, china has built roads all the up to finger 4 and upto finger 8 and we are yet to connect to finger 4 with road.
 

12arya

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The culprits should be hanged by their tongues!


Even Ladakh not spared, construction scams force Indian Army to rope in CBI

A series of alleged construction scams has forced the Indian Army to rope in the CBI to investigate and fix responsibility.

Shiv Aroor New Delhi, October 29, 2020
UPDATED: October 29, 2020 16:59 IST

Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) General Bipin Rawat (R) and Army Chief General Manoj Mukund Naravane at an event organised to present trophies to best marching contingents of Republic Day Parade 2020, at South Block, in New Delhi | PTI Photo

Exasperated by a series of alleged scams involving construction projects led by the Military Engineer Services (MES), including a massive fake bill racket uncovered in Ladakh during the current standoff, the Indian Army has decided to rope in the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) to investigate and fix responsibility.
To kick things off, the Army has handed over a case involving an infamous Army Married Accommodation Project (MAP) in Meerut, Uttar Pradesh to the CBI, and is making a list of several other MES-handled constructions and activities that it wants the central agency to probe as part of a deep dive into the perceived construction rot.

The Meerut project involves faulty construction which has led to a situation where buildings have to be demolished.

Other cases that will likely be handed over to the CBI include a fake bill reported during departmental inquiries into MES construction projects in Leh, Bengaluru, Guwahati and Ahmednagar. The Army's decision to attempt an aggressive crackdown on deep-rooted incompetence and corruption in construction activity was triggered by a September letter written by Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) General Bipin Rawat to the three armed forces chiefs.

In the letter, written after a meeting with the Chief Vigilance Commissioner (CVC), General Rawat highlighted "wrong practices", "delays in payments" and "wrongdoings in MES procedures", declaring that it was "extremely embarrassing" to have had to face questions from CVC on these accounts. Apart from the Meerut project, General Rawat also highlighted other examples of rot, including Army buildings in Kolkata which had begun to tilt owing to shoddy construction, and, notably, a married accommodation project in Delhi's Salaria Officers' Enclave which he describes as a "warzone" in which "not a soul has been punished despite a detailed inquiry".

Weeks after General Rawat's scathing letter, in which he urges the three chiefs to "pinpoint and take to task" those found guilty in inquiries, the Army had to write off a Rs 125 crore ammunition storage depot constructed by the MES in Kanasar near Bikaner in Rajasthan.

Recently, the Court of Inquiry had found that "gross negligence, poor workmanship, poor quality material, has resulted in total loss of the project" and ordered a complete demolition. Accountability is yet to be assigned on individuals for the disastrous execution of a crucial project and loss of valuable resources.
India Today TV has learnt that the Army is formulating a list of activities that it wants to be investigated till the root. These include the rampant tailoring of tenders by the MES, suspicious customisations of requirements to suit certain parties, fudged bills and invoices and favouritism.

While construction controversies ailing the MES is one major aspect of the Army's concern, the other continues to be the land on which these construction projects are being built. The MoD, and organisations under it, own the largest tracts of land in the country, and acquiring such 'defence land' for public works projects like highways and metros has been a complex process leading to delays and meandering bureaucracy. While the erstwhile rules mandated that departments or states acquiring defence land needed to reimburse the MoD with land of equal value (EVL), new rules announced last week pave the way for a new model where the MoD or armed forces can be repaid with equal value infrastructure (EVI), where the buying entity will fund infrastructure construction of equal value on defence land for the selling entity.

While the new policy ostensibly solves a perceived problem and creates opportunities for the Army to monetise its enormous land holdings, there are concerns in sections of the Army over whether this could actually lessen the Army's leverage over its land. For instance, while the Army does have huge landholdings, it still lives with a deficiency of 1.4 lakh acres of 'A1' category land, which is earmarked for Army units. So far, 2100 acres of A1 land (1,500 acres of which are in Maharashtra), valued at Rs 22,000 crore, has already been acquired by state governments for development projects, with no reimbursement (even under the EVL provision) in sight.

In another small but important example cited by sources, the Officers Training Academy (OTA) in Chennai doesn't have a proper firing range, since the land that could have been used for one has been taken over by the Tamil Nadu government under earlier provisions, but no land has been provided as compensation to the armed forces.

While the Army has made no formal objections to the new EVI provisions, an internal debate is understood to have been stirred up over whether the new mechanism will be airtight to political whims and scams.
 

Bhumihar

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That's how us grills these social media giants, twitter ceo was grilled today and our parliamentary panel don't even post what all happens in these meetings.
This is where our Bureaucracy and red tapes coule come in handy but our babus can't get ahead of looting common folks and small Businessmen.
 

Bhumihar

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The culprits should be hanged by their tongues!


Even Ladakh not spared, construction scams force Indian Army to rope in CBI

A series of alleged construction scams has forced the Indian Army to rope in the CBI to investigate and fix responsibility.

Shiv Aroor New Delhi, October 29, 2020
UPDATED: October 29, 2020 16:59 IST

Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) General Bipin Rawat (R) and Army Chief General Manoj Mukund Naravane at an event organised to present trophies to best marching contingents of Republic Day Parade 2020, at South Block, in New Delhi | PTI Photo

Exasperated by a series of alleged scams involving construction projects led by the Military Engineer Services (MES), including a massive fake bill racket uncovered in Ladakh during the current standoff, the Indian Army has decided to rope in the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) to investigate and fix responsibility.
To kick things off, the Army has handed over a case involving an infamous Army Married Accommodation Project (MAP) in Meerut, Uttar Pradesh to the CBI, and is making a list of several other MES-handled constructions and activities that it wants the central agency to probe as part of a deep dive into the perceived construction rot.

The Meerut project involves faulty construction which has led to a situation where buildings have to be demolished.

Other cases that will likely be handed over to the CBI include a fake bill reported during departmental inquiries into MES construction projects in Leh, Bengaluru, Guwahati and Ahmednagar. The Army's decision to attempt an aggressive crackdown on deep-rooted incompetence and corruption in construction activity was triggered by a September letter written by Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) General Bipin Rawat to the three armed forces chiefs.

In the letter, written after a meeting with the Chief Vigilance Commissioner (CVC), General Rawat highlighted "wrong practices", "delays in payments" and "wrongdoings in MES procedures", declaring that it was "extremely embarrassing" to have had to face questions from CVC on these accounts. Apart from the Meerut project, General Rawat also highlighted other examples of rot, including Army buildings in Kolkata which had begun to tilt owing to shoddy construction, and, notably, a married accommodation project in Delhi's Salaria Officers' Enclave which he describes as a "warzone" in which "not a soul has been punished despite a detailed inquiry".

Weeks after General Rawat's scathing letter, in which he urges the three chiefs to "pinpoint and take to task" those found guilty in inquiries, the Army had to write off a Rs 125 crore ammunition storage depot constructed by the MES in Kanasar near Bikaner in Rajasthan.

Recently, the Court of Inquiry had found that "gross negligence, poor workmanship, poor quality material, has resulted in total loss of the project" and ordered a complete demolition. Accountability is yet to be assigned on individuals for the disastrous execution of a crucial project and loss of valuable resources.
India Today TV has learnt that the Army is formulating a list of activities that it wants to be investigated till the root. These include the rampant tailoring of tenders by the MES, suspicious customisations of requirements to suit certain parties, fudged bills and invoices and favouritism.

While construction controversies ailing the MES is one major aspect of the Army's concern, the other continues to be the land on which these construction projects are being built. The MoD, and organisations under it, own the largest tracts of land in the country, and acquiring such 'defence land' for public works projects like highways and metros has been a complex process leading to delays and meandering bureaucracy. While the erstwhile rules mandated that departments or states acquiring defence land needed to reimburse the MoD with land of equal value (EVL), new rules announced last week pave the way for a new model where the MoD or armed forces can be repaid with equal value infrastructure (EVI), where the buying entity will fund infrastructure construction of equal value on defence land for the selling entity.

While the new policy ostensibly solves a perceived problem and creates opportunities for the Army to monetise its enormous land holdings, there are concerns in sections of the Army over whether this could actually lessen the Army's leverage over its land. For instance, while the Army does have huge landholdings, it still lives with a deficiency of 1.4 lakh acres of 'A1' category land, which is earmarked for Army units. So far, 2100 acres of A1 land (1,500 acres of which are in Maharashtra), valued at Rs 22,000 crore, has already been acquired by state governments for development projects, with no reimbursement (even under the EVL provision) in sight.

In another small but important example cited by sources, the Officers Training Academy (OTA) in Chennai doesn't have a proper firing range, since the land that could have been used for one has been taken over by the Tamil Nadu government under earlier provisions, but no land has been provided as compensation to the armed forces.

While the Army has made no formal objections to the new EVI provisions, an internal debate is understood to have been stirred up over whether the new mechanism will be airtight to political whims and scams.
These people steal money from funds meant for Polio what did u expect they will leave any lucrative place?
 

fire starter

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The culprits should be hanged by their tongues!


Even Ladakh not spared, construction scams force Indian Army to rope in CBI

A series of alleged construction scams has forced the Indian Army to rope in the CBI to investigate and fix responsibility.

Shiv Aroor New Delhi, October 29, 2020
UPDATED: October 29, 2020 16:59 IST

Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) General Bipin Rawat (R) and Army Chief General Manoj Mukund Naravane at an event organised to present trophies to best marching contingents of Republic Day Parade 2020, at South Block, in New Delhi | PTI Photo

Exasperated by a series of alleged scams involving construction projects led by the Military Engineer Services (MES), including a massive fake bill racket uncovered in Ladakh during the current standoff, the Indian Army has decided to rope in the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) to investigate and fix responsibility.
To kick things off, the Army has handed over a case involving an infamous Army Married Accommodation Project (MAP) in Meerut, Uttar Pradesh to the CBI, and is making a list of several other MES-handled constructions and activities that it wants the central agency to probe as part of a deep dive into the perceived construction rot.

The Meerut project involves faulty construction which has led to a situation where buildings have to be demolished.

Other cases that will likely be handed over to the CBI include a fake bill reported during departmental inquiries into MES construction projects in Leh, Bengaluru, Guwahati and Ahmednagar. The Army's decision to attempt an aggressive crackdown on deep-rooted incompetence and corruption in construction activity was triggered by a September letter written by Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) General Bipin Rawat to the three armed forces chiefs.

In the letter, written after a meeting with the Chief Vigilance Commissioner (CVC), General Rawat highlighted "wrong practices", "delays in payments" and "wrongdoings in MES procedures", declaring that it was "extremely embarrassing" to have had to face questions from CVC on these accounts. Apart from the Meerut project, General Rawat also highlighted other examples of rot, including Army buildings in Kolkata which had begun to tilt owing to shoddy construction, and, notably, a married accommodation project in Delhi's Salaria Officers' Enclave which he describes as a "warzone" in which "not a soul has been punished despite a detailed inquiry".

Weeks after General Rawat's scathing letter, in which he urges the three chiefs to "pinpoint and take to task" those found guilty in inquiries, the Army had to write off a Rs 125 crore ammunition storage depot constructed by the MES in Kanasar near Bikaner in Rajasthan.

Recently, the Court of Inquiry had found that "gross negligence, poor workmanship, poor quality material, has resulted in total loss of the project" and ordered a complete demolition. Accountability is yet to be assigned on individuals for the disastrous execution of a crucial project and loss of valuable resources.
India Today TV has learnt that the Army is formulating a list of activities that it wants to be investigated till the root. These include the rampant tailoring of tenders by the MES, suspicious customisations of requirements to suit certain parties, fudged bills and invoices and favouritism.

While construction controversies ailing the MES is one major aspect of the Army's concern, the other continues to be the land on which these construction projects are being built. The MoD, and organisations under it, own the largest tracts of land in the country, and acquiring such 'defence land' for public works projects like highways and metros has been a complex process leading to delays and meandering bureaucracy. While the erstwhile rules mandated that departments or states acquiring defence land needed to reimburse the MoD with land of equal value (EVL), new rules announced last week pave the way for a new model where the MoD or armed forces can be repaid with equal value infrastructure (EVI), where the buying entity will fund infrastructure construction of equal value on defence land for the selling entity.

While the new policy ostensibly solves a perceived problem and creates opportunities for the Army to monetise its enormous land holdings, there are concerns in sections of the Army over whether this could actually lessen the Army's leverage over its land. For instance, while the Army does have huge landholdings, it still lives with a deficiency of 1.4 lakh acres of 'A1' category land, which is earmarked for Army units. So far, 2100 acres of A1 land (1,500 acres of which are in Maharashtra), valued at Rs 22,000 crore, has already been acquired by state governments for development projects, with no reimbursement (even under the EVL provision) in sight.

In another small but important example cited by sources, the Officers Training Academy (OTA) in Chennai doesn't have a proper firing range, since the land that could have been used for one has been taken over by the Tamil Nadu government under earlier provisions, but no land has been provided as compensation to the armed forces.

While the Army has made no formal objections to the new EVI provisions, an internal debate is understood to have been stirred up over whether the new mechanism will be airtight to political whims and scams.
MES need to be scrapped it has became a shit hole of corruption along with workshops.
 

FalconSlayers

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First these porkis call BJP islamophobic so they are so insecure that how can muslims join islamophobic BJP and that’s why they kill them.
 

daya

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These people steal money from funds meant for Polio what did u expect they will leave any lucrative place?
Do you know that any vaccination program like POLIO is DUDHAROO GAAY. Basically we people are most corrupt and thug person, though exceptions are there.
 

NAMICA

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OFB awaits field-trials of its ECWCS samples by Army Published October 29, 2020 | By admin SOURCE: The Statesman With Indian Army jawans expected to remain stationed at high altitudes in Ladakh during winter amidst Indo-China tension, the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) is still waiting for the army to conduct field trials of its manufactured samples of Extended Cold Weather Clothing System (ECWCS) before procurement. The ECWCS will help the soldiers beat the extreme sub-zero temperature in coming months. The government owned Kolkata-based defence manufacturer, the OFB, has completed modifications on the ECWCS samples as suggested by the Army and is now awaiting field trials. An OFB official told The Statesman, “ECC (extreme cold climate) items are used at altitudes ranging from 8000ft-12000 ft with temperature up to minus 20 degree Celsius. The SCME (special clothing & mountaineering equipment) items are meant for high altitudes at and beyond 18000 ft in minus 50 degrees and wind velocity of 40 km per hour.” “Some ECC & SCME items regularly manufactured and supplied to Army and the Central Armed Police Forces by the Ordnance Factories are ECC coat and trousers, balaclavas, gloves, jacket windcheater, carry packs etc. Some SCME items are imported by the Army but a list of 10 items that were categorised under Atmanirbhar Bharat as import substitute, fall in the range of Ordnance Equipment Factory (OEF) group and ECWCS is one such item” said the official. However, OFB feels indigenisation is though a prudent policy but will hardly yield benefit unless materialised. “ECWCS samples were developed in 2017 in collaboration with IIT Delhi and submitted to Army for trials along with Indo Tibetan Border Police (ITBP). In December 2018, samples were shown to the Master General of Ordnance (MGO) and permission for trials was sought. MGO directed to submit samples against future Request for Information (RFI). Till date, no RFIs were floated” said Gagan Chaturvedi, deputy DG, OFB communications. “An RFP for 50000 ECWCS was floated by MGO in June 2020 for past suppliers and user-approved vendors, leaving no options for OFB to participate. We are, however, ready with our samples with modifications suggested by the user (Army) who will carry out field trials. Additionally, samples of OEF items such as boot crampon, rucksack 70 ltr light-weight and sleeping bags are under evaluation “ said the official.

idrw.org .Read more at India No 1 Defence News Website https://idrw.org/ofb-awaits-field-trials-of-its-ecwcs-samples-by-army/#more-238527 .
 

etantra

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what do these chini negotiators think we r? Morons?

Yes, i know we have been defeated by our babus countless times but still.
if you don't ask, you don't get.

there could well be a moron on the other side. need to learn these simple lessons
 

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