India-China 2020 Border conflict

Kumata

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stalemate is also a result, so meeting did produce a result.
Result.. No that was basically chinkies telling us to not bring more man on border since they fear the gang bang more now.. but i am sure they are busy bringing in more pussies on ground.... never trust the chinkies and porkis... they always come back once beaten
 

Blue Water Navy

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Chris is somewhat unbiased this time???!!! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :dude::dude::crazy::crazy:

Or, the future will tell !! Anyway, you people enjoy..:megusta:


 

johnq

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The only speculative answer that I can think off is "access to geospatial data". AFAIK there was nothing wrong with Nirbhay's range or propulsion in it's tests. The problem was lack of very accurate geospatial data to enable the missile to fly hugging the terrain so that it would not get shot down. AlL of it's tests were done at considerable altitude over the sea. If it flew subsonically at 5,000 feet above ground it would be targeted and shot down by AAD. This is specially true at the LAC where to clear the mountains it would have to have a considerable margin of elevation to clear the mountains and consequently a high probability of it being shot down by the Chinese. The only change that could have prompted the deployment is access to US geospatial data via the BECA agreement i.e. if the US is now allowing India access to this data, then it is possible to program Nirbhay to fly via different waypoints in the mountain range, skirting peaks and hugging the terrain to avoid Chinese AD. That will make Nirbhay a viable weapon. Again, this is my speculation only.
India deploys long-range missile Nirbhay to counter Chinese threat at LAC

The air-launched version of Nirbhay is next.
 

Shashank Nayak

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Considering that Offset policy bumped up the contract value and complicated negotiations, what do you think about the new offset policy, especially this statement from TOI article:
“So, offsets will not be applicable in government-to-government, IGA (inter-governmental agreement) and ab initio single-vendor deals in the future,” said director general (acquisitions) Apurva Chandra.
Do you think it clears the way for import of American fighters, without a competition?
 

johnq

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This would be a real smack in the face for the PRC, but it won't happen as the ROC reliquishing claims over such a large area would make it illegitimate in the eyes of many people both in Taiwan and on the mainland.
I disagree. Taiwan is more interested in its own independence from China than anything else. Historically, the areas of Aksai Chin and Arunachal Pradesh have been with India for quite some time before the Chinese occupied areas there and elsewhere on Indian territory. Same holds true for Bhutan for areas of Bhutan occupied by the Chinese. As a free democratic people, the Taiwanese are also opposed to the mistreatment of people in Tibet and Xinjiang, so they would be willing to recognize independence of these countries also. It would be a big plus for Taiwan if India and its accompanying bloc of countries were to recognize Taiwan as an independent nation, along with US and the American bloc. In exchange, I am sure that Taiwan will recognize Aksai Chin, Arunachal and all other areas illegally occupied by Chinese as legitimate Indian territory, as well as recognizing areas of Bhutan illegally occupied by China (Doklam) as legitimate Bhutanese territory. And there is big support for the Tibetans and Uyghurs as an oppressed people in Taiwan, so they would be willing to recognize Tibetan and Xinjiang independence from China, in exchange for the Indian and American blocs' recognition of an independent Taiwan.
 

johnq

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The INSAS is already being replaced with guns firing 7.62 ammo, starting from the front lines. So the soldiers on the frontlines (LAC, LOC) are already being supplied with the newest guns.
 

tarunraju

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INSAS is a battle proven rifle.
Saar Maruti Alto is "proven" on any Indian road condition. But you don't see the whole world driving it.

Just because we restricted ourselves to a shitty choice doesn't make it the right one.

On the other hand, the AK-47 is like the Willy's Jeep. Proven, but continues to be sold. Heck, even Mahindra released its iteration of the original Jeep as an off-roader in the US called "Roxor," which the rednecks absolutely loved (until Fiat-Chrysler got pissy about it).

But you don't see Jeeps flooding the roads either. So India needs to keep looking for its "Corolla," "City," or *insert really popular car.* I think a million AK-203s will improve things for our armed forces.
 

utubekhiladi

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Saar Maruti Alto is "proven" on any Indian road condition. But you don't see the whole world driving it.

Just because we restricted ourselves to a shitty choice doesn't make it the right one.

On the other hand, the AK-47 is like the Willy's Jeep. Proven, but continues to be sold. Heck, even Mahindra released its iteration of the original Jeep as an off-roader in the US called "Roxor," which the rednecks absolutely loved (until Fiat-Chrysler got pissy about it).

But you don't see Jeeps flooding the roads either. So India needs to keep looking for its "Corolla," "City," or *insert really popular car.* I think a million AK-203s will improve things for our armed forces.
yes, we are talking the same thing. like i mentioned, INSAS needs complete design overhaul. but the same time, we need to learn how to piss with the dick that we have..

if i have an emergency and if i already own maruti-alto, then i will be more then happy to drive alto rather then to go on shopping for corolla during the time of crisis.

my intention was to mention that all these funds could have been used to manufacture family of small arms in INDIA itself.
 

omaebakabaka

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right, we will place order whenever there is an issue at the border. :cowboy: no one is asking to fight with INSAS rifle alone and at the same time, on the contrary of what being told sold in media by arms lobbyist, INSAS is a battle proven rifle. it definitely needs design overall and lot of modern improvements. but the point is, it is not a bad rifle as much as shown in media. most of the user on this forum, who complain about INSAS rifle, never fired a single firearms in their life.

so we stop jerking off and get serious about developing rifles on our own. developing a family of firearms is not difficult for a country like India.
I do have lot of experience with rifles of different grade including shot guns and handguns of various calibre, it is kinda bad but at the same it is allright till you get unlucky but you can get unlucky with a lot of name brands. It is outdated terribly.....I like the ak-203 deal better if it is still on. No point in getting sigs and proliferate again....are these coming on time for China war?
 

omaebakabaka

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I would appreciate if you can debate with points and facts instead of "LMFAO". good for you that you grew up shooting. but nothing personal, have you fired insas? if you answer yes, then you will agree that it is a decent weapon but at the same time, it needs design overhaul.

we need to learn to fight with what we have rather then what we wish for. INDIA is not a rich country. dollar trades around 74 INR. instead of spending crores of rupees on foreign fire arms, we should invest the money within. if we desperately need firearms, then use those funds to speed up the local manufacturing of 203's.
What is the point of building something domestic and not have continuity aka insas? Insas was never competetive to begin with objectively speaking but there was some potential about OFBS/DRDO coming with a better sequel....hope other projects fare better like Pinaka e.t.c At least every 3 to 5 years there needs to be a major upgrade to any platform.
 

utubekhiladi

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What is the point of building something domestic and not have continuity aka insas? Insas was never competetive to begin with objectively speaking but there was some potential about OFBS/DRDO coming with a better sequel....hope other projects fare better like Pinaka e.t.c At least every 3 to 5 years there needs to be a major upgrade to any platform.
I agree.. OFBs needs to be decommissioned. its shame that with crores of rupees being spent, OFB still can't come out with new design. all of their prototype weapons so far remembers the AK or fn-fal type of designs..
 

LDev

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I wonder how many people have listened to this Bharatshakti podcast with Brigadier Chatterjee in conversation with Nitin Gokhale. Listen to it from 17:10 to 22:15. To summarize, the conclusions reached by Nitin Gokhale are based on his conversations with as he calls them "very senior functionaries" in the establishment in India. So in this case he is definitely acting as a GOI mouthpiece and therefore this is an authoritative account of GOI thinking on the Ladakh issue.

He says that there are 4 reasons that GOI believes that China has acted the way it has:

1. To test the deployment and capabilities of it's forces in the Western Theater Command after the reorganization of the Chinese armed forces on Theater lines.

2. To avenge the setback at Doklam which is seen within China as an insult that rankles domestically as well as with the wider international audience.

3. To test the preparedness and resolve of the Indian armed forces to deploy at the border in response to the Chinese build up and to test the resolve of the Indian establishment to face China militarily vs opting for face saving political negotiations as was done by past Governments in India.

4. To try and force India to subjugate itself to the Middle Kingdom that China regards itself as.

He goes on to say that GOI has resolved to:

1. Stay resolute at the border and not to submit to Chinese coercion under any circumstance. That this is a very crucial time in which India cannot be seen as bowing to Chinese pressure and coercion and will not.

2. At the same time, be open to for talks and discussions with China to settle the immediate confrontation.

Podcast of Nitin Gokhale in conversation with Brigadier Chatterjee
 

omaebakabaka

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I wonder how many people have listened to this Bharatshakti podcast with Brigadier Chatterjee in conversation with Nitin Gokhale. Listen to it from 17:10 to 22:15. To summarize, the conclusions reached by Nitin Gokhale are based on his conversations with as he calls them "very senior functionaries" in the establishment in India. So in this case he is definitely acting as a GOI mouthpiece and therefore this is an authoritative account of GOI thinking on the Ladakh issue.

He says that there are 4 reasons that GOI believes that China has acted the way it has:

1. To test the deployment and capabilities of it's forces in the Western Theater Command after the reorganization of the Chinese armed forces on Theater lines.

2. To avenge the setback at Doklam which is seen within China as an insult that rankles domestically as well as with the wider international audience.

3. To test the preparedness and resolve of the Indian armed forces to deploy at the border in response to the Chinese build up and to test the resolve of the Indian establishment to face China militarily vs opting for face saving political negotiations as was done by past Governments in India.

4. To try and force India to subjugate itself to the Middle Kingdom that China regards itself as.

He goes on to say that GOI has resolved to:

1. Stay resolute at the border and not to submit to Chinese coercion under any circumstance. That this is a very crucial time in which India cannot be seen as bowing to Chinese pressure and coercion and will not.

2. At the same time, be open to for talks and discussions with China to settle the immediate confrontation.

Podcast of Nitin Gokhale in conversation with Brigadier Chatterjee
None of those seem very deep for such an impactful escalation to me. I am not accepting those based on common sense
 

omaebakabaka

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I'm inclined to believe retired and serving soldiers who regularly fired it (including in combat) over a random guy on the internet trying to defend the INSAS b/c he got in a few shots down range :laugh:

As for its failings during Kargil - there's no shortage of literature online on that topic - don't make me spoonfeed you.

It'd really be better if you stick to the same old tired "De-escalation Ho Gaya Kya" meme every other day while simultaneously complaining about people derailing the thread; than wasting my time.

re: LMFAO . Sometimes a person finds something so bafflingly dumb/unworthy of time/effort in responding, that they prefer to wave it away. That's why I went with LMFAO - if you must know :rofl:

And next time, if you're gonna quote a question I asked in the thread - at least answer the damn question before going on your personal rant.
Just one comment not getting into the middle of two riflemen here....

Aren't lmfao and other like lol more feminine for fighting on texts or twitter where your girlfriends uses those? When we are talking rifles keep it a bit manly....
 

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