India-China 2020 Border conflict

[Knowitall]

I am getting the reverse.

China's bluff was called out yday and they are coming to the party today. They can see the pickle they are in.

I think you might be a bit misguided here while we have indeed made readjustments most are on our own side of the lac except a few like helmet and black top and some other heights.

While the Chinese have intruded proper in our territory.

Their aim is to turn the current deployment into the new status quo and we cannot let that happen.

 

[Cactus09]

 

[Lancer]

This is what has been happening, it is the new "status quo", the Chinese have partially achieved their objectives of salami slicing this year.
The only remaining question is will the build up on the LAC and IA camping on hilltops be permanent, or will they pull back eventually as a part of some JoInT StAteMeNT with DeEsCaLaTiOn.

This is going to continue yearly now, unless the Chinese are removed by force.

This is the cycle

Chinese squat -> troops either get murdered by chinks like in Galwan, or they report back to superiors -> chinks make fortifications/permanent structures -> MEA promoted dhoti shivering occurs in GoI about not "escalating" further -> time passes, structures are built -> dhoti shivering leads to chai biscoot talks -> more time passes -> face saving DeScALaTiOn happens, GoI heaves a sigh of relief "phew, Cheeni ka masla akhir khatam hua " -> Cheeni encroachments are the new LAC.

Rinse and repeat the same cycle in the next 1-2 years.



10 years ago it was said we will surpass China, thanks to their bioweapon we are now sliding closer towards South Africa/ Russia type countries in terms of growth rate.
In 10 more years China will be a literal superpower, probably with it's own high tech semiconductor industries, jet engines, blue water navy and more sophisticated bioweapons.
Dhoti shivering will be even worse then

Of course some of the encroached areas may have been previously unoccupied gray areas - but losing them to direct Chinese occupation is still a loss - not to mention - when a gray area is lost, then your rightful territory becomes the next "gray area."

A proper response is desperately needed; it will almost certainly mean war - but there's no other choice.

 

[bajiraopeshwa]

I would back that view.

Decoupling was always in the works, was a matter of timing as it requires public buy in.

Indian growth is import led (except for Software). What this means is traders here buy Chinese items, markup the price and then sell it. Even companies like Bajaj and Prestige are largely doing this. This inspite of Indian labour being 1/6 of the cost of Chinese labour.

If huge duties are levied on Chinese imports, it will force the multi-national brands to manufacture in India (assuming it is attractive enough which it is in many industries e.g. mobile phones). Hopefully Indian software can do value add to products after they start getting manufactured here.

 

[bajiraopeshwa]

Of course some of the encroached areas may have been previously unoccupied gray areas - but losing them to direct Chinese occupation is still a loss - not to mention - when a gray area is lost, then your rightful territory becomes the next "gray area."

A proper response is desperately needed; it will almost certainly mean war - but there's no other choice.

We must also be having options to land grab below the threshold of war. A few square km now and then.
If we want a war, there are many ways to ignite it. E.g. start sniping Chinese soldiers like we do at the LOC

 

[Synergy]

Alas the same thing was said 15 years ago too that the gap will start decreasing slowly but we know how it turned out.

Looking at the procurement levels and induction speed the gap for the coming years will be increasing not decreasing.

Chinese economy has reached that saturation point from that it can't go any further.

it can't continue many things like, can't deliberately devaluate renminbi, can't build more ghost towns, can't maintain more inventory, can't continue dumping etc. it's demography will also give decreased dividend (in the future). it also failed to receive market status.

those days of cheap alternatives has reached it's zenith and can't progress any further. Ping Pong knows it very well and that's why he was talking about transforming Chinese economy to manufacturer of quality products instead of cheap alternatives. but China is nowhere to match the quality of branded items. (except Wuhan virus).

they tried to overcome this logjam by BRI. it's only intention is to suck those economies dry. little bit ott : show one country which is benefited economically by allying with China.
but the world has noticed that and some countries like US has started responding.
this BRI is the only option by which China can maintain it's momentum.

when anybody can't go any higher, he tries to drag the people above him to show his relative height is higher. China has done exactly that by releasing Wuhan virus. economy is it's main target. but as a result, I think many countries will decouple their economies (to some extent if not completely) from China. That will accelerate it's fall.

China has created a economic bubble around itself. it should burst in no time.
and they know that.


condition of India is just opposite to China.

so in short term that gap might increase a bit, but in the long run it's bound to decrease.

(not touching other points atm as economy will dictate all of those).

 

[Lancer]

We must also be having options to land grab below the threshold of war. A few square km now and then.
If we want a war, there are many ways to ignite it. E.g. start sniping Chinese soldiers like we do at the LOC

Yes, but the Chinese seem unwilling to even discuss our areas of concern right now, after the recent land grab (and India doesn't seem to be willing to give up any of those Kailash heights - which the Chinese want us out of).

So clearly we haven't yet got something that can force the Chinese to leave.

I agree on triggering a war, pushing Chinese buttons until they have to launch an attack would be much more preferable than having to initiate full fledged hostilities.

 

[cereal killer]

Wasn't he blaming the intelligence community just the other day?

Actually whole lot of them including so called China Study group is also responsible.
Bureaucrats have for long fu***d security of the nation.

 

[Sanglamorre]

My kidneys have started to hurt just thinking about the fuck MEA agreed to in that joint statement.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

 

[shade]

I think you might be a bit misguided here while we have indeed made readjustments most are on our own side of the lac except a few like helmet and black top and some other heights.

While the Chinese have intruded proper in our territory.

Their aim is to turn the current deployment into the new status quo and we cannot let that happen.

Only way for this is to remove them by force from our territory, which will not happen.
Till then Chai Biscoot will continue.

Of course some of the encroached areas may have been previously unoccupied gray areas - but losing them to direct Chinese occupation is still a loss - not to mention - when a gray area is lost, then your rightful territory becomes the next "gray area."

A proper response is desperately needed; it will almost certainly mean war - but there's no other choice.

There is another choice.
Acceptance.

To save face you can eventually coat it in this evergreen jhumla uttered by Chichora Chacha :-

" WhY BoTheR wiTh A LaND WhErE NoT a BLaDe oF GrAsS GrOwS"

At this rate by 2049, even Leh will become part of "Chinese territory since ancient times"

 

[bajiraopeshwa]

Yes, but the Chinese seem unwilling to even discuss our areas of concern right now, after the recent land grab (and India doesn't seem to be willing to give up any of those Kailash heights - which the Chinese want us out of).

So clearly we haven't yet got something that can force the Chinese to leave.

I agree on triggering a war, pushing Chinese buttons until they have to launch an attack would be much more preferable than having to initiate full fledged hostilities.

But this begs the larger question: What is the strategic objective of the Chinese ? I can think of the following

1. Tie down Indian forces at LAC to avoid making a push through POK and upsetting CPEC. Or atleast be able to respond quickly if that happens. If this is the case, then it is a very defensive move and begs the question whether they are really the superpower they claim to be.

2. Teach a lesson to India. But what lesson is being taught to India by forcing their own soldiers to brave the winter in Ladakh

3. Learn the basics of mountain warfare with this deployment. But this may take a few winters.

Atleast in the Kargil war, the objective was clear: Threaten Srinagar-Leh highway and force India to make concessions in Siachen.

 

[Cactus09]

My kidneys have started to hurt just thinking about the fuck MEA agreed to in that joint statement.

Don't panic before it's out

 

[Shashank Nayak]

So.. now joint statement after every corps commander meeting..

 

[shade]

But this begs the larger question: What is the strategic objective of the Chinese ? I can think of the following

1. Tie down Indian forces at LAC to avoid making a push through POK and upsetting CPEC. Or atleast be able to respond quickly if that happens. If this is the case, then it is a very defensive move and begs the question whether they are really the superpower they claim to be.

2. Teach a lesson to India. But what lesson is being taught to India by forcing their own soldiers to brave the winter in Ladakh

3. Learn the basics of mountain warfare with this deployment. But this may take a few winters.

Atleast in the Kargil war, the objective was clear: Threaten Srinagar-Leh highway and force India to make concessions in Siachen.

Their point is to subdue India without actual risky( as in sanctions on the exports of the "factory of the world" ) military action before moving on to the bigger fish like US and vassals in Asia and Taiwan.
They have already subdued us economically, now they want to do it geopolitically also.

 

[Tuco]

Don't panic before it's out

Not panicking but shows the confidence we have on our MEA babus. They have habit of getting fucked even if there is clear advantage.

 

[TheSaffron]

I think we are more than confident of giving the Hans a bloody nose. We are prolonging the talks only to make Xi more uncomfortable and increasingly restless. I think we will announce a ban on Huawei just a day prior to the CCP annual congress in October just to spite in the face of the Han Emperor, indirectly belittling him in front of the CCP elders and forcing him to make a wrong move thereby giving us an excuse to start our own deadly and effective military manoeuvres against the PLA princelings.

 

[Tuco]

I think we are more than confident of giving the Hans a bloody nose. We are prolonging the talks only to make Xi more uncomfortable and increasingly restless. I think we will announce a ban on Huawei just a day prior to the CCP annual congress in October just to spite in the face of the Han Emperor, indirectly belittling him in front of the CCP elders and forcing him to make a wrong move thereby giving us an excuse to start our own deadly and effective military manoeuvres against the PLA princelings.

Sun ke achha lag raha hey, good scheme.

 

[bajiraopeshwa]

I think we are more than confident of giving the Hans a bloody nose. We are prolonging the talks only to make Xi more uncomfortable and increasingly restless. I think we will announce a ban on Huawei just a day prior to the CCP annual congress in October just to spite in the face of the Han Emperor, indirectly belittling him in front of the CCP elders and forcing him to make a wrong move thereby giving us an excuse to start our own deadly and effective military manoeuvres against the PLA princelings.

Think a ban on Huawei is already in place in that the government has told all telcos to avoid Huawei. The government can also make more demands - e.g. Huawei should share the entire source code for verification and inspection and make the routers in India with government oversight - which Huawei wont agree to

 

[TheSaffron]

Think a ban on Huawei is already in place in that the government has told all telcos to avoid Huawei. The government can also make more demands - e.g. Huawei should share the entire source code for verification and inspection and make the routers in India with government oversight - which Huawei wont agree to

I'm talking official, de-jure ban. Though, a de-facto ban is already in place.