India-China 2020 Border conflict

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Mortal remains of 4 out of 5 missing Naval officers retrieved today - went missing after an avalanche hit their mountaineering expedition to Mt. Trishul in the Western Kumaon region of Utharkhand. All out efforts continue to locate the fifth naval climber and one Sherpa.
Honestly doesn't look like a coincidence or accident, is something brewing seriously in Utharkhand??

 

[The Shrike]

Wanted to post this a few days back, was busy...

GHOST VILLAGES OF UTTARAKHAND

Link above ^^^^^

Y'all Chamoli district of UTTARAKHAND (where the supposed incident happened) is one of the district of where ghost villages are present. No wonder PLA has building villages across border.

Also PKS predicted it waaayyy back, has been proved right. He may miss mark on technical specifications sometimes, but on notch on geopolitical policies ( 9/10)

Who is PKS (hope its not the astrologers)?

 

[The Shrike]

If i am IAF chief and I want my new toys, I just need to make a good presentation to MoSha that the party reelection is in jeopardy. Because when PLAAF will attack we will not have enough force to repel them.
Magically Nirmala chachi will open the coffers for additional Rafale
But then even if we order now, planes will not be delivered before 2-3 years, that is easily post 2024.

Yes it's already too late for 2024, all Rafale will be delivered by end of this year, and between 2022 and 2024 only remaining part of the 1 FOC squadron of Tejas will be delivered. Looking at Nirmala chachi work I don't think the government is expecting any way in 2024 or even later.

 

[indiatester]

Thats horrible.
I thought rock climbing rope is secured with multiple anchor points to secure the leader and followers and is supposed to hold at each point.

 

[THESIS THORON]

elite predator has claimed in (twitter space) that we have shocked chinkis again (like blacktop op) after this (100 horses thing)

he is not specifying what has happend there

@mokoman , @mist_consecutive

any opinion on this thing

 

[The Shrike]

Not my words, it is exactly what happened, I can't find the tweets/article right now to show the proof.

What basically happened is Chinese came in large numbers, clashes happened on the LAC, but the local ITBP commander did not find it important enough to report it to higher command, but rather tried to handle it himself (probably out of fear of getting rebuked for not able to handle small matters and relying on the army).
When he finally felt like reporting the full picture to the higher command, things were already quite late, and the Chinese has already built up and captured the peaks.

Of course, ITBPs won't be able to handle battalion-size Chinese forces, ITBP's task isn't to face the Chinese, but just to police the border and handle small matters, not full-scale war build-up.

In essence, the ITBP commander's decision of not immediately reporting delayed our response and we let the Chinese get entrenched on F4 ridge.

We'll have to wait for the detailed story of how this f#ck up happened, like a well researched book (I have lost any hope of an official version of facts/commission at this point) - i'll take any anonymous/retired forces with a big bucket of salt. Also at the end of the day Army is the de facto top dog when it comes to defence of the nation, if there were any procedural issues then they should have worked to remediate that (before shit hit the fan), shifting blame to a subordinate org does not inspire a lot of confidence (anyways not that anyone has done that officially).

No, it is not remotely visible to naked eye, maybe with powerful binoculars, and if you know where to look, you might.

The OP on south bank is around 7-10 Km from F4 (north bank- lower ridgeline). AFAIK it very much feasible to detect and track vehicles approaching and even people at that distance. Here's what a $1000 Nikon P1000 can do for example, we have plenty of old school high power binoculars.

Spoiler: Pics and Video

Below one is on a ship (from wiki) but I'm too lazy to google now.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

280 tracked sph , and we orders only 100 , I see we will order more

The problem is the price, a single K9 Vajra SPH costs $8 million.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

The problem is the price, a single K9 Vajra SPH costs $8 million.

Aree army has to achieve that till 2027 so chill .

 

[Lost user]

Like most of the Chinese with wjom we discuss, Xi too have a mental decease of over estimating the strength of China. Small Chinese have big ego. It is their national trait.

India just put some jale pe Namak.. on Chink ass.. Australian coal and Iron ore are some of the highest purtiy ores in the world.. Chinks thought that Aussies would beg them to revoke the coal ban.. instead it's the Chinks who will be freezing in winter..

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[mist_consecutive]

elite predator has claimed in (twitter space) that we have shocked chinkis again after this (100 horses thing)

he is not specifying what has happend there

@mokoman , @mist_consecutive

any opinion on this thing

Entirely possible, but don't expect it to trickle out in the news even if it happened.

Basically, what happened in the recent episode of the Chinese incursion is just some good-old dominance patrol. It happens every year multiple times, both sides do it. It's just because of the ongoing heated border, this got more attention.
It's a fairly common occurrence that 20-50 or even bigger groups sometimes will cross some distance into LAC, mark their territory, vandalize some infrastructure if opportunity allows, or exchange some blows with the intercepting team before retreating.

We could have done the same to them as well.

We'll have to wait for the detailed story of how this f#ck up happened, like a well researched book (I have lost any hope of an official version of facts/commission at this point) - i'll take any anonymous/retired forces with a big bucket of salt. Also at the end of the day Army is the de facto top dog when it comes to defence of the nation, if there were any procedural issues then they should have worked to remediate that (before shit hit the fan), shifting blame to a subordinate org does not inspire a lot of confidence (anyways not that anyone has done that officially).

The OP on south bank is around 7-10 Km from F4 (north bank- lower ridgeline). AFAIK it very much feasible to detect and track vehicles approaching and even people at that distance. Here's what a $1000 Nikon P1000 can do for example, we have plenty of old school high power binoculars.

Spoiler: Pics and Video

Below one is on a ship (from wiki) but I'm too lazy to google now.

Yes, with powerful binoculars, possible.

With naked eyes, nothing is visible (personal experience). Army trucks look like small ants on the opposite side (only if they are moving, they are noticeable). Also noticing Chinese vehicle movement is not possible since line-of-sight is restricted beyond F4.

 

[The Shrike]

With even fairly basic optics and clear atmosphere you will be able make out objects from many kilometres away (you can search YT for it), military grade LORROS etc is another thing. And you can expect someone to be monitoring this 24x7. This is the actual view from the south bank OP towards F4, it has clear view of any vehicles that leave their permanent base at F8 plus a clear view of the road and cliff face from F4 to F5. The view from the Chinese OP on Black top etc are even better (into our area). IIRC it was reported that before when we used to try foot patrol beyond F4 the Chinese would drive from their base at F8 and try to stop the patrol, the patrols were most likely detected from their OPs on the south bank.

 

[mokoman]

With even fairly basic optics and clear atmosphere you will be able make out objects from many kilometres away (you can search YT for it), military grade LORROS etc is another thing. And you can expect someone to be monitoring this 24x7. This is the actual view from the south bank OP towards F4, it has clear view of any vehicles that leave their permanent base at F8 plus a clear view of the road and cliff face from F4 to F5. The view from the Chinese OP on Black top etc are even better (into our area). IIRC it was reported that before when we used to try foot patrol beyond F4 the Chinese would drive from their base at F8 and try to stop the patrol, the patrols were most likely detected from their OPs on the south bank.
View attachment 112903

read in prawns swahni book that chinese managed to figure out a hole in ITBP survillance grid in depsang 2013 , allowed them to sneak in and pitch tents , blocking our patrols.

that was a fuck up , maybe this one is too.

 

[The Shrike]

read in prawns swahni book that chinese managed to figure out a hole in ITBP survillance grid in depsang 2013 , allowed them to sneak in and pitch tents , blocking our patrols.

that was a fuck up , maybe this one is too.

Yes but 2020 was at an altogether different scale, usually fu-bar of this magnitude happen when there are failures at multiple levels, root cause analysis needs to be done, and gaps have to be remediated. In past we have had fuck ups like Kargil happen, there was no CAPF in picture (at least AFAIK) to make a fall guy.

 

[mokoman]

Yes but 2020 was at an altogether different scale, usually fu-bar of this magnitude happen when there are failures at multiple levels, root cause analysis needs to be done, and gaps have to be remediated. In past we have had fuck ups like Kargil happen, there was no CAPF in picture (at least AFAIK) to make a fall guy.

dont think we will ever learn.

we also lost a valley in tawang in 1980s . same way . few will sneak in , block our side , then will increase in numbers , then structures , roads tents come up.

there was a stand off then , seen pics of it on weibo . pla amassing artys , weapons , troops.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

dont think we will ever learn.

we also lost a valley in tawang in 1980s . same way . few will sneak in , block our side , then will increase in numbers , then structures , roads tents come up.

there was a stand off then , seen pics of it on weibo . pla amassing artys , weapons , troops.

Did we get that valley back

 

[mist_consecutive]

dont think we will ever learn.

we also lost a valley in tawang in 1980s . same way . few will sneak in , block our side , then will increase in numbers , then structures , roads tents come up.

there was a stand off then , seen pics of it on weibo . pla amassing artys , weapons , troops.

Wot, never heard of it. Tell me more about the lost valley in Tawang.

 

[mokoman]

Did we get that valley back

Wot, never heard of it. Tell me more about the lost valley in Tawang.

Sumdorong Chu standoff - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

not sure if won/lost , i think it ended with a compromise . but looking at sat images we seem to have lost the valley.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Very sad. Om shanthi, shantihi, shantihi.

 

[The Shrike]

Anyone knows how many K9 thunder have been deployed in Ladakh? And is there any plan to increase the number of K9s, cause the 100 initially ordered were meant for Punjab, rajasthan.

What is the total requirement of SPH by IA?

Well we know at least 3 based on video evidence .

[I'm not an ORBAT expert but] there are (at least) 3 major areas where armoured forces are in play 1) Depsang plains 2) Spangur Gap 3) Indus river valley (and maybe to some extent 4 Chang Chenmo river valley too). If one were to use US army Armoured Brigades (ABCT), which has 18 SP artillery pieces each, for argument sake (I don’t know about IA composition/ or rather its not easy to find), and one armoured brigade in each sector (some could take more), you end up with the number 18x3 = 54 on the lower side and say 18x5 = 90 on the higher side. i.e. we CAN deploy anywhere from half to almost all the K9s we have in inventory, of course that would mean IA divisions in the plains facing Pak will be nanga w.r.t mobile artillery, which makes you wonder why the F has the government not ordered more K9s since the line stopped in 2020 .

 

[mist_consecutive]

Sumdorong Chu standoff - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

not sure if won/lost , i think it ended with a compromise . but looking at sat images we seem to have lost the valley.

If this Wikipedia article is correct - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumdorong_Chu_standoff

Then no area has been lost. Just verified with GE 2020 Nov/Dec imagery, in fact, we are aggressive and making roads inwards crossing the LAC