India-China 2020 Border conflict

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Keeping China out of Taiwan will take a tough stand from Biden

with headlines like this it seems Biden is weakening against china. Not much
confidence for allies with Biden as a leader.
 

DerBronzeLord

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China’s Neighbors Are Stronger Than We Think

Though China's neighbours and rivals in the Indo Pacific, comprising Vietnam, India, Japan, Australia, Indonesia, Phillipines and Taiwan are strong, collective action is needed, without which, the Chinese can go and park 200 boats in the SCS. Even India alone will be incapable of taking on China in a decade or two, and if India is unable to maintain a sufficient deterrent, little can be expected from other countries in the SCS. A brilliant infographic I saw recently, was the Asia Power Index by the Lowy Institute, which is mostly responsible for convincing Australian lawmakers to get more involved in the QUAD. They considered future, as well as present capabilities of countries, and put it all neatly in one diagram. The US isn't as weak we thing, but the same applies to the Chinese, is what I concluded from the infographic. For those interested:

https://power.lowyinstitute.org/
 
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Though China's neighbours and rivals in the Indo Pacific, comprising Vietnam, India, Japan, Australia, Indonesia, Phillipines and Taiwan are strong, collective action is needed, without which, the Chinese can go and park 200 boats in the SCS. Even India alone will be incapable of taking on China in a decade or two, and if India is unable to maintain a sufficient deterrent, little can be expected from other countries in the SCS. A brilliant infographic I saw recently, was the Asia Power Index by the Lowy Institute, which is mostly responsible for convincing Australian lawmakers to get more involved in the QUAD. They considered future, as well as present capabilities of countries, and put it all neatly in one diagram. The US isn't as weak we thing, but the same applies to the Chinese, is what I concluded from the infographic. For those interested:

https://power.lowyinstitute.org/
neighbors are strong but there is no leadership
 

shade

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Though China's neighbours and rivals in the Indo Pacific, comprising Vietnam, India, Japan, Australia, Indonesia, Phillipines and Taiwan are strong, collective action is needed, without which, the Chinese can go and park 200 boats in the SCS. Even India alone will be incapable of taking on China in a decade or two, and if India is unable to maintain a sufficient deterrent, little can be expected from other countries in the SCS. A brilliant infographic I saw recently, was the Asia Power Index by the Lowy Institute, which is mostly responsible for convincing Australian lawmakers to get more involved in the QUAD. They considered future, as well as present capabilities of countries, and put it all neatly in one diagram. The US isn't as weak we thing, but the same applies to the Chinese, is what I concluded from the infographic. For those interested:

https://power.lowyinstitute.org/
Thanks for that site.
 

DerBronzeLord

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neighbors are strong but there is no leadership
Not just leadership, collective action. NATO succeeded due to the presence of collective action. The situation today is very similar to that of the 1950's with the Soviets, but no one seems to be willing to take the mantle and take the fight to the Chinese. India seems to be unwilling to take the fight to China, by developing its cyber warfare capabilities, or moving from its continental mindset, when it comes to the Armed Forces, while diplomatically, we should be moving faster to establish a Secretariat and collective action groups like the NATO Centres of Excellence. For all its talk, the US seems to be not doing much to advance the QUAD and are just moving slowly on most matters, bringing things like Climate Change to a group based on geopolitics. Australia is too weak to do anything similar to leadership, and the poor old Japs are left all alone. India needs to take up the mantle with the Japanese and start advancing the QUAD, or start putting more focus on the India-France-Australia trilateral.

Another thing which would be a good point to talk about is the potential expansion of the QUAD. Which countries does everyone believe would be included in the QUAD? IMO, France, Vietnam and Philippines seem likely to be included. Taiwan is unlikely to be a formal member of QUAD, due to recognition issues, but will likely have close collaboration with the other members of the QUAD. South Korea and New Zealand haven't been included as they seem to be gravitating to China. Same goes for Thailand. Indonesia is a bit of a mixed game though.
 

shade

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Not just leadership, collective action. NATO succeeded due to the presence of collective action. The situation today is very similar to that of the 1950's with the Soviets, but no one seems to be willing to take the mantle and take the fight to the Chinese. India seems to be unwilling to take the fight to China, by developing its cyber warfare capabilities, or moving from its continental mindset, when it comes to the Armed Forces, while diplomatically, we should be moving faster to establish a Secretariat and collective action groups like the NATO Centres of Excellence. For all its talk, the US seems to be not doing much to advance the QUAD and are just moving slowly on most matters, bringing things like Climate Change to a group based on geopolitics. Australia is too weak to do anything similar to leadership, and the poor old Japs are left all alone. India needs to take up the mantle with the Japanese and start advancing the QUAD, or start putting more focus on the India-France-Australia trilateral.

Another thing which would be a good point to talk about is the potential expansion of the QUAD. Which countries does everyone believe would be included in the QUAD? IMO, France, Vietnam and Philippines seem likely to be included. Taiwan is unlikely to be a formal member of QUAD, due to recognition issues, but will likely have close collaboration with the other members of the QUAD. South Korea and New Zealand haven't been included as they seem to be gravitating to China. Same goes for Thailand. Indonesia is a bit of a mixed game though.
The soviets weren't "World's largest consumer market", "factory of the world", "source of ez investment bux", "source of cheap items that i can sell at a mark up" etc.

Nobody wants to oppose the Chongs, Quad is a meme.
All dallas busy with climate change ******y.
 

shade

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Looks like Uncle Xi and Uncle Putin are not attending Biden's Climate gala event .. After all the hype, China might not even allow Kerry into China..:bplease:
Is maulanaji invited to the summit?

1618424487104.png



Yes, Maulana sahab is also invited, along with the President of the Congo.
So I guess it's a meme summit, Babaji can just be a talking head along with the rest thank God.
 

Knowitall

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Looks like Uncle Xi and Uncle Putin are not attending Biden's Climate gala event .. After all the hype, China might not even allow Kerry into China..:bplease:
From what I understand china has not rejected their invite as of now instead I had read they would likely take part in the summit.

It makes sense for china to attend the summit looking at their own investments and ambitions driven both by climate and geopolitics towards renewable and other sources of energy.
 

Knowitall

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The soviets weren't "World's largest consumer market", "factory of the world", "source of ez investment bux", "source of cheap items that i can sell at a mark up" etc.

Nobody wants to oppose the Chongs, Quad is a meme.
All dallas busy with climate change ******y.
The whole thing is a joke.

These countries joined RCEP china will most probably join CPTPP too. Most if not all these countries ar apart of BRI in some way or the other and are turning into huge trading partners for China.
 

DerBronzeLord

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The soviets weren't "World's largest consumer market", "factory of the world", "source of ez investment bux", "source of cheap items that i can sell at a mark up" etc.

Nobody wants to oppose the Chongs, Quad is a meme.
All dallas busy with climate change ******y.
"factory of the world", "source of ez investment bux", and "source of cheap items that i can sell at a mark up" are almost gone. Factories are shifting to Vietnam, India and Indonesia for precisely that reason. "World's largest consumer market" will soon be old, before they are rich, as someone rightly described. China is solely rich right now, with a highly centralized market economy.

I am not denying that the Soviets were MUCH poorer than China today, but China faces systemic problems, their demography and the debt crisis(as is seen in reduced loans by Chinese banks, affecting our dear neighbour as well).

Suggest this and this.
 

shade

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"factory of the world", "source of ez investment bux", and "source of cheap items that i can sell at a mark up" are almost gone. Factories are shifting to Vietnam, India and Indonesia for precisely that reason. "World's largest consumer market" will soon be old, before they are rich, as someone rightly described. China is solely rich right now, with a highly centralized market economy.

I am not denying that the Soviets were MUCH poorer than China today, but China faces systemic problems, their demography and the debt crisis(as is seen in reduced loans by Chinese banks, affecting our dear neighbour as well).

Suggest this and this.
Boss it's not the fact that they were poorer, it is that Soviet market was more or less closed for Western business.
In chong land, it is open, yes you have to get into JVs with state owned companies that will steal all your proprietary tech, but mind-bogglingly Western companies consider this an "acceptable price"

Till what all you suggest comes to pass in 10-20 years, corporate whores of the West will still do Mujra in the court of the CCP.

There is also the heavily shilled meme of "China's large consumer market propelling the global economic recovery in the wake of the covid19 pandemic".

btw Vietnam is just an assembly hub for products, the supply chain for the subcomponents used in those products is still located in Ching land.


tbh I find this Chink shilling and "looking the other way" to Chink g*ndmasti since the last 20-30 years very strange, it's as if there is a faction in the West that has been promoting their rise before they became wealthy enough to insert their own shills into Western countries and organizations.
 

Knowitall

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"factory of the world", "source of ez investment bux", and "source of cheap items that i can sell at a mark up" are almost gone. Factories are shifting to Vietnam, India and Indonesia for precisely that reason. "World's largest consumer market" will soon be old, before they are rich, as someone rightly described. China is solely rich right now, with a highly centralized market economy.

I am not denying that the Soviets were MUCH poorer than China today, but China faces systemic problems, their demography and the debt crisis(as is seen in reduced loans by Chinese banks, affecting our dear neighbour as well).

Suggest this and this.
What?? None of your statements seem to match the realties on ground.

China was the largest recipient of foreign direct investment in 2020 with 163 billion on investments this was supposed to be the year when the world was going to move away from china.

The whole meme of leaving china is another farce.

Take apple for example they have come to India and claim to move out of china and build iphones in India but the company's manufacturing in India is not for international export, but for the domestic market in the pursuit of avoiding protectionist tariffs, which many Chinese mobile companies do there themselves. Even huawei and xiamoi make their phones in India to avoid tarrifs. Apple still operate more than 135 major supply chains in china alone.

Samsung is even worse because while it may seem they left china out of concern the reality is that they have simply been outclassed in the chinese phone market and their sales are reducing every year.

China and chinese companies are themselves shifting their own supply chains out of china into africa and asia as they move higher into the value addition chain. They are themselves offloading cheap labour work to other countries as wages and skills improve there.

The service sector of china now contributes 52% towards the GDP and is only increasing so it makes sense to shift low skilled work out.


They have managed to sign RCEP an investment deal with EU have become their largest trading power all in this supposed year of leaving china and are aiming for a 9% growth as the world once again goes into lockdown.


Outside the big head lines only a few companies have actually moved out of china and even fewer into India. We still have a long way to go but will eventually get there.
 

Rassil Krishnan

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AFG did not "defeat" anyone, period! its just a wasteland where stupid jihadists grow with help of "farmers" like iran, pak and saudi- no nation can get any benefit from that place (no oil, no fertile land- NADA)

British empire, USSR and USA "WITHDREW" FROM WAR in AFG, not surrendered (like 1971:laugh:)!- consider that "withdrawal" as in PORN movies just before climax:cool3::cool3::cool3:...AFG is fu**ked badly multiple times thanks to PAK and company.
yes,practically it is not a defeat but technically it is a defeat.no one in their right minds thinks that the afghan taliban can beat any decent army in a proper war.look what happened to them at our borders in the 90s.they went extinct.
 

Rassil Krishnan

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Keeping China out of Taiwan will take a tough stand from Biden

with headlines like this it seems Biden is weakening against china. Not much
confidence for allies with Biden as a leader.
india is the main obstacle against china as i had predicted,it is not america as i predicccted as even if trump was elected ,the core of america is rotting,as in there is no national will or majority common identity,it is currenlty composed of fragmented chunks of 7-8 factions of different religio-ethnic and plitical divisions with parties forming along those lines(do you think blacks and mexicans have any hardon for democracy or attacking china like the white neocons and muh america republicans,do you think the alt right has any appetite to stay in endless wars and attack china,etc).

what people dont realize the on paper strength of america does not transalate to sufficient effective strength on the ground due to this fragmentation due to diversity and all other social maladies coming home to roost,many of them which they cant stop as they have been shilling their merits to others for decades.so they are stuck.

india is actually potentially more dangerous than usa for china as we have skin in the game and we are propelled by one of the most potent human forces in history tribalism which can achieve much more than what is shown on paper.if india cant cut it,then no one can.

america is just the guy who does not believe in him self,even sometimes hates his own identity hiding behind his big guns and toys hoping that will deter away china.essentially bluffing.unfortunately like decades past,these days it is not working and china is calling their bluff as even in americas forte of large no of modern warships,china is catching up and in economy size too it is reaching critical mass.even the warship conditions of america are deteriorating and in a decade china might be americas equal.

so on paper strength itself should not be considered,many other factors should be considered and effective strength must be calculated and put into your model for prediction if you want accurate predictions.
 

Rassil Krishnan

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india is the main obstacle against china as i had predicted,it is not america as i predicccted as even if trump was elected ,the core of america is rotting,as in there is no national will or majority common identity,it is currenlty composed of fragmented chunks of 7-8 factions of different religio-ethnic and plitical divisions with parties forming along those lines(do you think blacks and mexicans have any hardon for democracy or attacking china like the white neocons and muh america republicans,do you think the alt right has any appetite to stay in endless wars and attack china,etc).

what people dont realize the on paper strength of america does not transalate to sufficient effective strength on the ground due to this fragmentation due to diversity and all other social maladies coming home to roost,many of them which they cant stop as they have been shilling their merits to others for decades.so they are stuck.

india is actually potentially more dangerous than usa for china as we have skin in the game and we are propelled by one of the most potent human forces in history tribalism which can achieve much more than what is shown on paper.if india cant cut it,then no one can.

america is just the guy who does not believe in him self,even sometimes hates his own identity hiding behind his big guns and toys hoping that will deter away china.essentially bluffing.unfortunately like decades past,these days it is not working and china is calling their bluff as even in americas forte of large no of modern warships,china is catching up and in economy size too it is reaching critical mass.even the warship conditions of america are deteriorating and in a decade china might be americas equal.

so on paper strength itself should not be considered,many other factors should be considered and effective strength must be calculated and put into your model for prediction if you want accurate predictions.
in a nutshell i am saying that there is more than the no of guns and boats you have in a war,it also matters what culture,mentality each side has and it can be observed in many cases that fanaticism of any kind,tribalism,etc for nation,tribe,religion,etc can really help a side and make it last and take much more punishment than on paper would seem possible as it can motivate the fighters to fight harder and the non military civilians not to poke their state to surrender and withdraw.

the west in general in the current age depend upon their no of advanced systems and tech to keep you at bay,but if you somehow get over this mental and material barrier with a sufficient if not equal amt of equipment of your own of good enough quality and/or hardy fighting mentality,suddenly they get unsure and sweat and get cold feet.

in other words degenerate coomer types dont make good warfighters,especially in wars that last very long and/or against a pop that is motivated by a transindental value other than material conditions that promotes fanaticsm.the only soln is to use ultra violent force like that of america 1945 against japan or britain against dresden.but this is not that america,this is 2021 america,this is coomer america.
 
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Edinburgh

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China is completely different from the Soviet Union.
It is difficult to deal with China like the Soviet Union.
The Soviet Union invested heavily in military affairs and heavy industry. China's military expenditure accounts for only 1.3% of GDP. It is difficult to bring China down by military competition. The tax revenue of China's tobacco industry is higher than that of military expenditure.

China is the largest producer of consumer goods, while the Soviet Union is short of consumer goods and daily necessities.


The main exports of the Soviet Union are natural resources and weapons, which are easily targeted. Low oil prices could cripple the Soviet economy. China is the largest trading partner of more than 140 countries in the world. It is already the largest single market for goods in the world. The level of American executives has not stopped China's exports. In the first three months of this year, China's imports and exports reached a record totaled $1.3 trillion, with a trade surplus of more than $100 billion.
 

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