Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

[Akshay Fenix]

We would prefer the technology, not the plane (F-16)
India's best bet for MAKE IN INDIA, is Tejas, But importantly we have to get an engine which we can put on any plane and export to any country we want to without any restrictions. That will truly be Make in India as it should be,

Let us for a moment assume that we take F-16 Block 70.. would we be able to sell to countries like Vietnam, Taiwan or other countries without restriction? We cannot. The Americans have themselves avoided giving Taiwan F-16 because they dont want to upset China. Also any plane we export will be needing USA permission. Thus F-16 will only bring planes for IAF and potential overhaul hub for other users and cheaper spares. But importantly .. WE CANNOT EXPORT IT.
On other hand, Tejas with our own Kaveri engine, and UTTAM AESA, we can export it to Friendly countries and make defence pact with these countries. Thus becoming stronger as a force.

Can we sell Su30 MKI without Russia's permission?

 

[Pulkit]

Americans will eat up our own indigenous aircraft industry... better buy 200 plus rafales from France....

200 plus Rafales will leave us with no budget to buy anything for next two decades.
Americans cannot eat our Indigenous aircraft industry as we are yet to have one.
Tejas and its production line cannot be called one + Americans are coming in partnership with an Indian Firm so if we can use and control them well it will be for our own benefit.

 

[Pulkit]

We would prefer the technology, not the plane (F-16)

Yes technology transfer will be the main motive behind this

India's best bet for MAKE IN INDIA, is Tejas,

I doubt, we have other options we are not workign enough on trainer aircrafts they also have huge demand along with the helis

But importantly we have to get an engine which we can put on any plane

there can be no such engine.

and export to any country we want to without any restrictions. That will truly be Make in India as it should be.

Anything that has more than 65% indigenous is a good bet for Make IN India.

Let us for a moment assume that we take F-16 Block 70.. would we be able to sell to countries like Vietnam, Taiwan or other countries without restriction? We cannot.

If we are unable to sell new then also we will have enough customers for spare parts, modification and repair .Just think about the huge numbers of sold to the world and those who still operate them and plan to keep using them for next 2-3 decades.

The Americans have themselves avoided giving Taiwan F-16 because they dont want to upset China. Also any plane we export will be needing USA permission.

Permission will be required Yes but we still do not know the arrangement.

Thus F-16 will only bring planes for IAF and potential overhaul hub for other users and cheaper spares. But importantly .. WE CANNOT EXPORT IT.

Yes

On other hand, Tejas with our own Kaveri engine, and UTTAM AESA, we can export it to Friendly countries and make defence pact with these countries. Thus becoming stronger as a force.

Tejas is not gonna get ready for export in another 10 years. Firstly the current version will not be picked by many due to the confusion and doubts.Secondly the numbers required by IAF will take 10 years minimum to full fill from the date of production.Thirdly competition is way to high in the Light Combat aircraft section.Fourth Kaveri is still a dream to come true.

 

[Krusty]

200 plus Rafales will leave us with no budget to buy anything for next two decades.
Americans cannot eat our Indigenous aircraft industry as we are yet to have one.
Tejas and its production line cannot be called one + Americans are coming in partnership with an Indian Firm so if we can use and control them well it will be for our own benefit.

Well I have to wish good luck for anyone trying to 'control' the (mere?) manufacturing partner of a multi billion American Defence corporation backed by the US Govt and the pentagon...

If there is one thing both USA and Russia agrees benifits both is a weak indigenous Defence industry. Both will go to any length to ensure it.

We are 'manufacturing' T90s for a while now. We still can't make its barrel ourselves.

 

[Pulkit]

Well I have to wish good luck for anyone trying to 'control' the (mere?) manufacturing partner of a multi billion American Defence corporation backed by the US Govt and the pentagon...

yes its difficult and tricky but can be done

If there is one thing both USA and Russia agrees benifits both is a weak indigenous Defence industry. Both will go to any length to ensure it.

Yes they want a milking cow

We are 'manufacturing' T90s for a while now. We still can't make its barrel ourselves.

We are assembling them here not manufactuing just like Su. Rectify me if there is any TOT option in T90s Deal.

 

[Filtercoffee]

Could some one elaborate or state why we need both Rafales and F - 16s since our own bird is out flying them already before the FOC. I mean we already have their blessing with the 414 for starters and the SU - 30 MKI does all we need, I personally feel we could wait like the PAF is doing with JF - 17 till the CAC or TAI sends some J - 31s or TFX for their pychological stability in the near future.

 

[Filtercoffee]

this is 21st century warfare , ....everything that can fly is not a fighter aircraft....

Its a 5th generation mach 4+ interceptor.

 

[Akshay Fenix]

US To Provide India Resources, Technology For Security: Vice President Mike Pence

The United States will help the Indian armed forces to obtain the resources and technology they need to support security in the region, Vice President Mike Pence has said.

"You need look no further than yesterday's announcement that the United States will sell Sea Guardian UAVs, Apache attack helicopters, and C-17 transports to India," he said. Pence said the process to approve the sale was underway and expressed hope that it would "accurately" reflect commitment to mutual security among both the nations and the importance of their partnership for security.

"A first-rate global power needs a first-rate military, and the United States will continue to enable the Indian armed forces to obtain the resources and technology it needs to protect the Indian people and support security in the region," Pence told members of the US India Council in a keynote address.

Pence said the US and India can deepen their ties in many industries and areas and asked India to enact the necessary economic reforms to ensure that the bilateral trade relationship is both "fair and reciprocal".

He said India and the US are strong partners in the fight against terrorism.


"Like the United States, India is too familiar with the grave danger posed by radical Islamic terrorists," he said yesterday.

"These barbarians have struck on Indian soil too many times over the decades, including the horrific attacks in Mumbai nearly a decade ago, claiming the lives of more than 160 innocents, including six Americans," Pence said.

"The United States and India already collaborate to a significant extent. But in the face of terror networks that are ever-more sophisticated, ever-more dispersed, we will continue to take renewed action to facilitate two-way information and intelligence sharing to confront this threat," he said.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/U...For-Security-Vice-President-Mike-Pence-262885

 

[Akshay Fenix]

Could some one elaborate or state why we need both Rafales and F - 16s since our own bird is out flying them already before the FOC. I mean we already have their blessing with the 414 for starters and the SU - 30 MKI does all we need, I personally feel we could wait like the PAF is doing with JF - 17 till the CAC or TAI sends some J - 31s or TFX for their pychological stability in the near future.

We already wasted 10 years in waiting now how many more years you want us to wait more?

And what about the 200+ planes that are about to retire from 2020 onwards in addition to current sq strength of just 35.

 

[Filtercoffee]

We already wasted 10 years in waiting now how many more years you want us to wait more?

The MIGs are going to be phased by 28 - 29. You tell me why not.

 

[Akshay Fenix]

The MIGs are going to be phased by 28-29. You tell me why not.

So you want our sq strength to come to 15? And then we go for more purchases. The countries selling us will increase their prices knowing very well we are in dire need. So in short game over.

 

[Pulkit]

Could some one elaborate or state why we need both Rafales and F - 16s since our own bird is out flying them already before the FOC. I mean we already have their blessing with the 414 for starters and the SU - 30 MKI does all we need, I personally feel we could wait like the PAF is doing with JF - 17 till the CAC or TAI sends some J - 31s or TFX for their pychological stability in the near future.

Your comment is not clear .
So replying on the query "why we need both Rafales and F - 16s since our own bird is out flying them already before the FOC."

We do not need Rafale or F16 in particular but we do need one more Aircraft.
Tejas will be inducted in bulk in the Mk2 version till then only 120 will be inducted.

In the next 15 years we are due to replace 250+ aircrafts and we have a additional requirement of 200 aircrafts . We cannot have 450+ Tejas in IAF in MK1 MK1A or Mk2 version.

Rafale being inducted will only form 2 squads which is a very small number as per our requirements.As they have been already ordered and there price is too steep we donot need or we cannot afford them in huge numbers.

We need to split our requirement in a way that Tejas Programs doesnot get impacted and we can meet our numbers as well of 42 squad.

 

[Filtercoffee]

My problem is procurement and details of use.

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Ditch this deal of F-16s, We do not want Tejas to be another Marut .

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Americans will eat up our own indigenous aircraft industry.

Just like what they did with Canada.

 

[square]

Ditch this deal of F-16s, We do not want Tejas to be another Marut .

LM just trying some media trick....

there is no indication that govt or the iaf is intrested in f16.....when the world is moving on to 5g , the f35 has a 20:1 kill ration on f16 at the redflag in the most challanging conditions..........

 

[Aghore_King]

LM just trying some media trick....

there is no indication that govt or the iaf is intrested in f16.....when the world is moving on to 5g , the f35 has a 20:1 kill ration on f16 at the redflag in the most challanging conditions..........

Parikarma and IDF member is saying that a source closer to mod has told him that were indeed going for f 16 , mark my words next Americans will pitch f 18,f 35 , f 15 silent eagle , and then they will try to enter our army and Navy procurements and they will make sure that we buy only American stuff in all purchases...

 

[Akshay Fenix]

Parikarma and IDF member is saying that a source closer to mod has told him that were indeed going for f 16 , mark my words next Americans will pitch f 18,f 35 , f 15 silent eagle , and then they will try to enter our army and Navy procurements and they will make sure that we buy only American stuff in all purchases...

This is not our first purchase from US, Poseidons, globalmasters etc etc billions worth of goodies have been bought.

And no idiot opens up a production line in a foreign country without expecting orders from that country. If someone did then that is one of the most idiotic business decisions.

Also these planes from US cannot survive in high altitude regions without severe modifications, while Tejas can easily.

Now,
If we place these block70s at Porki border then that will make PAF completely redundant since PAF mostly has block52s, forcing porkis to buy new jets. (War of Attrition)

 

[ezsasa]

Any discussion on F-16 acquisition impeding LCA production, must also remember that if F-16 indeed come, they won't come before 2022. By that time India GDP will be close to 4 trillion and defence annual budget will be close to 100 billion $.

At that budget, both programs can coexist. No need to compromise one for other.

And by 2022, majority of mig 21 and 1/3 of mig-27 will be decommissioned.

 

[square]

Parikarma and IDF member is saying that a source closer to mod has told him that were indeed going for f 16 , mark my words next Americans will pitch f 18,f 35 , f 15 silent eagle , and then they will try to enter our army and Navy procurements and they will make sure that we buy only American stuff in all purchases...

there is absolutely no single doccument in black&white with any main media house which can state that mod is intrested towards f16...... all this was just the advertisemeng drama by LM , just look at the timing ......IAF has catogarically stated many a time that they will not buy any more 4g fighters........

india is a democracy run by burocrates.....everything would be on paper ,procces would follow even when a pencil was purchased...

anyway , my point is , why would iaf import a fighter whose combat ration is 1:20 against f35......

in next 10year , iaf will be facing , j31 ,su35 and pakfa.....

presently only three fighter programs which the govt is backing.....
tejas
rafale
amca.