WARREN SS
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Until IAF get satisfied with quality of Indian products par with world counterpartFor how many years india will depend on other countries for our own security?
Until IAF get satisfied with quality of Indian products par with world counterpartFor how many years india will depend on other countries for our own security?
No country in the world produces a 100% indigenous aircraft except the US where only the F-22 stealth fighter and B-2 Stealth bomber are 'indigenous' due to amalgamation of top secret technology by their black projects. Even Lockheed Martin's F-35 has 26 sub contractors spread all over Europe and America. It's more cost effective to outsource systems. Why can't we? What's the big deal? Is it about sentiments or operational requirements and economics?For how many years india will depend on other countries for our own security?
IF quality is the main issue why they filling their inventory with Russian junks,Until IAF get satisfied with quality of Indian products par with world counterpart
I don't know which junks are u talking aboutIF quality is the main issue why they filling their inventory with Russian junks,
No SP5 flight? No SP7 flight? Aren't such public utterances supposed to be made after one considers the most conservative/worst case scenario?"The sixth one is expected to fly in the next three days and the seventh in about 10 days.
Do they have same standards when it come to foran maal? No. They just don't want Indian product. Imported Air ForceUntil IAF get satisfied with quality of Indian products par with world counterpart
Yes, Tejas can fly in 1.6 Mach. In that speed, endurance will be low. It is the same case for everyone else. Even F16 has endurance of over an hour.Endurance of 59 mins ? They put in like 50lts of fuel or what? IAF south block needs a good old spanking...
Please, stop your funding business. You are trying to say that destroying the country and helping the enemy kill its people is the only way to make funds for election? Funds can be made by bringing in private players or even illegal mining of Iron/Aluminum/coal. There is no need for funding by defence deals to foreign players and risking Indian security. If funding was everything, then India might as well sell itself to Saudi Arabia for billions of dollars a year. They are ready to pay.By 2021, all of the MIG squadrons except fulcrums will have to retired from the services. These retirements will leave a huge gap in the desired and operational squadrons.
And all knows that all political parties needs fundings for their expenses and BJP has a lot of Gujrati tycoons. Now, keep this thread politically clean and discuss about the topic.
Good Day
Don't you think adding external fuel to LCA can add enough endurance to compete it with Gripen?Silly to say the least, add A2A refueling, new gen weapons like SAAW, 250/500 kg guided HSLD, 1000kg Glide bombs, drop the weight and LCA Mk-1P is ideal for ops. endurance can easily be doubled.
These endurance figures for Gripen and F-16 can't be without A2A refueling.
Please be specific with details, facts etc. Lets start here-IAF Only goal was to have indegenous system is DUE to low operational cost and low maintenance
LCA failed to meet ASQR in both departments
I don't say scrap them it is evolving project
But IAF Defense doctrine on two front cannot be dependent on LCA which as of now sub par
=>Please, stop your funding business.
Now, keep this thread politically clean and discuss about the topic.
By 2021, 100 Rafales? Not possible..As I said, if we are not ready, we are not ready. Period. We will adjust with what we have. In 2021 if MiGs have to be retired, so be it. We will live with 275 Su30, 130 Tejas, 100 Rafales, 150 other planes like Mirage-2000, Jaguars etc. This totals to over 600 planes (33 squadrons). If this much is not enough, then it is anyways, full scale nuclear war with missiles, Navy and invasion. There is no need to raise false alarms.
It is possible to have 130 LCA but for funding and the immediate availability of MK2 is preventing hasty decisions. Even then, Tejas will be in around 80 numbers by 2021.=>
By 2021, 100 Rafales? Not possible..
130 LCA? not possible
You need to get relax and go for a tight sleep.India is willing to sacrifice more pilots as it has more human resources than natural resources. USA has more natural resources (like oil, coal, gas, iron, aluminum, minerals etc) and hence can afford to expend more of them. That is the difference
You need to understand that the aim of war is to ensure minimum losses to our side.You need to get relax and go for a tight sleep.
You even don't know, how much IAF spent to train a pilot.. and for IAF Pilots are always more important than the Aircraft..
No need to respond to this..
Good Day
Lets Me answer you step by stepPlease be specific with details, facts etc. Lets start here-
- What is the requirement in the long term for India?
- What is the need of air force for India?
- What is the minimum requirement of planes in the airforce to completely fulfil its mission? How did you come to this number?
:bs::bs:. .You need to understand that the aim of war is to ensure minimum losses to our side.
In the present scenario, India is natural resource deficit but human resources surplus. If you think this is wrong, go question god as to why this is so. I also wish India had large area like USA/China and hence smaller population density.
Pilots are indeed more important than plane. But, given the case, we have to make do with what we have. We also have a large population to protect in a small area which need intensive vigilance. Since this is the case, we need large quantity of units and not large payload.
We are willing to sacrifice more pilots because we have too much population density and can't afford to sacrifice cities. I am not speaking of planes over pilots but 10000 people in the city over 1 pilot.
The doctrine of USA is different as it doesn't have to defend but only offend. It is more important to have large number of patrol planes than a small number of planes with large payload and offensive capabilities. Large number of defenders will ensure that even if enemy slips past one, he can't slip past others.
Do you have a reason to say Tejas Mk2 is worse than Mirage 2k, Jaguar, MiG21, MiG27, Gripen?Lets Me answer you step by step
What Is the Requirement in the long term for India ?
To answer this question We should see IAF Doctrine Which Based on Two front Air threat scenarios
For any counter doctrine we should first see the threat perception Of IAF face by its competition
Two air-forces on which IAF doctrine is based is PAF and PLAAF And there Future procurement's
Future threat perception of IAF faced By 2025
PAF
80 F-16 52/MLU + (Turkish support) Air superiority and SEAD ,DEAD Heavy Category
250 JF-17 Block1,2,3 + Ground Attack, CAS and Interceptor other roles Light To medium Category
1-2 Squadrons of J-31,J-20B (this Still Under procurement)
PLAAF
600 + J-10 and Its variants Medium category
400 + J Flanker series And its Variants Heavy category
70 + Su-30 MKK Heavy category
100+ J-20 And its Variants Heavy Category
- What is the need of air force for India?
To answer This question We should First Shed Some Light on current Inventory Of IAF
240 Su-30 MKI
51 mirage 2K (mandated to retire by 2030)
78 Mig-29 UPG ( mandated to retire by 2030)
134 Sepecat Jaguar (mandated To retire By 2030)
87 + Mig -27 (All Phased out by 2019-20)
245 + Mig -21 (All Phased out by 2025 )
So If We Go by IAF Requirements Currently In Next 12-15 years 595 + Aircrafts of Light and Medium Will be Phased Out By IAF
- What is the minimum requirement of planes in the airforce to completely fulfil its mission? How did you come to this number?
Now Minimum Requirements on Which IAF Can Counter Its threat Effectively Maintaining superiority over Its Enemy
Now People Suggest LCA but Its currently a Project Which Still Not Par With What ASQR Required by IAF
AMCA is Still Far fetched Dreams Which Aspect ed For DSPU's To deliver Which Still Struggling With LCA project To Make it Par With IAF ASQR
Based On Current Procurement's Picture of IAF Projected in 2025
272 Su-30 MKI
51 Mirage M2k (bound retire in 2030-32
78 Mig-29 UPG (retire by 2030-32)
LCA MK1/MK1A 80 +
36 Rafale F3R (39 more If Follow on order goes through )
Jaguars 74+ Mostly Darin-3 upgraded
87Mig-27 retired
245 Mig-21 retired
Short Fall Of IAF Will Around 400 + fighters in various Roles At-least by 2048
To see What minimum required See To what available to us And We should Give Priority To just adding up numbers or Quality aswell
Gripen E is Good Omini role Fighter With higher Payload And EW And Sensors And Better Weapon Integration +longer range
Rafale Will be Another Option Which has same quality And Weapon Integration And longer range
Numbers Required
100 Light To medium Weight fighters (Gripen )
100 To Heavy And medium weight (rafale)
To correct Short Fall Further buying 2 Squadrons of MKI more And rest Con be made up With LCA and it variant
Correct Numbers Should be
300+ Su-30 MKI
100 Rafale
100 Gripen or other option
150 + LCA and Its variants
To Counter 5th Generation Threat of PLAAF We Should Find Options Sooner Within 2-3 years or It Will haunt Us in future
Assessment I made Is on Facts And Possible Given Future Scenarios by Analysis of capabilities of IAF competition Like PAF and PLAAF And Its Doctrine
PS: You Are free To Add Your Inputs Or Analyze Mine
LOL I Aspected logical reasoning from you but you replied like dumb witDo you have a reason to say Tejas Mk2 is worse than Mirage 2k, Jaguar, MiG21, MiG27, Gripen?
Again LCA MK2 is far fetchedIf not, all of them are replaceable by Tejas Mk2. Not upto the mark is your bias. I don't understand why can't Tejas be better than Gripen. Which part is lacking? Why is it impossible to overcome? Was Gripen designed and made by god himself that none else can make similar plane?
So You Want IAF With Fly With Model OnlyNext, AMCA is in the making and calling it distant dream is nothing but retarded behaviour. When the model has also been selected, how can it be distant dream? The avionics, systems etc are in parallel run too. Also, considering others experience - like USA, Russia, China etc, the only problem that might delay AMCA is 5th generation engine. That is a problem but still 4.5 generation version of AMCA with lower thrust to weight engine can be used to replace Su30.
Light Weight And Less range radarWhat is wrong with Tejas Mk1A?
Don't ask me ASK CAG And HAL3. Why Tejas can't be completed by 2024-5? What is wrong and why can't India do what other countries are doing at the same pace?
Lack of innovation And Privatization on correct time4. Why is AMCA a distant dream? Why can't India do what other countries did?
Sirji 100 gripen Will take 10-12 Years induct by that time Our budget And Capex Will cross 100 -120+ billion $100 F16 or gripen will cost us 15 billion USD. If we replace 250 MiGs with gripen or F16 we will become bankrupt.