Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

Steven Rogers

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Present production batch has 0% RAM coating.
Then how it's rcs is low..... Don't say due to small size, their are plenty of points where the radar waves are reflected back easily and claim of 0.5m2 could go just in the speed of light.

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TPFscopes

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Then how it's rcs is low..... Don't say due to small size, their are plenty of points where the radar waves are reflected back easily and claim of 0.5m2 could go just in the speed of light.

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Due to small size and high use of composites.
 

Steven Rogers

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Pakistan is improving JF-17 day by day due Chinese involvement Look at recently they integrated 8 Pylons in JF-17

Pakistan need not depend on innovation like us but on china there path easy our not

the Number aircraft i described is for deterrent

We can deter china With effective use of superior quality Which we get from Western products
That ain't extra pylon, but a multiple rack... They have been using that on Block 2 variants

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rohit b3

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Lets Me answer you step by step
What Is the Requirement in the long term for India ?

To answer this question We should see IAF Doctrine Which Based on Two front Air threat scenarios
For any counter doctrine we should first see the threat perception Of IAF face by its competition

Two air-forces on which IAF doctrine is based is PAF and PLAAF And there Future procurement's

Future threat perception of IAF faced By 2025

PAF

80 F-16 52/MLU + (Turkish support) Air superiority and SEAD ,DEAD Heavy Category
250 JF-17 Block1,2,3 + Ground Attack, CAS and Interceptor other roles Light To medium Category
1-2 Squadrons of J-31,J-20B (this Still Under procurement)

PLAAF

600 + J-10 and Its variants Medium category
400 + J Flanker series And its Variants Heavy category
70 + Su-30 MKK Heavy category
100+ J-20 And its Variants Heavy Category


- What is the need of air force for India?


To answer This question We should First Shed Some Light on current Inventory Of IAF

240 Su-30 MKI
51 mirage 2K (mandated to retire by 2030)
78 Mig-29 UPG ( mandated to retire by 2030)
134 Sepecat Jaguar (mandated To retire By 2030)
87 + Mig -27 (All Phased out by 2019-20)
245 + Mig -21 (All Phased out by 2025 )

So If We Go by IAF Requirements Currently In Next 12-15 years 595 + Aircrafts of Light and Medium Will be Phased Out By IAF


- What is the minimum requirement of planes in the airforce to completely fulfil its mission? How did you come to this number?

Now Minimum Requirements on Which IAF Can Counter Its threat Effectively Maintaining superiority over Its Enemy

Now People Suggest LCA but Its currently a Project Which Still Not Par With What ASQR Required by IAF
AMCA is Still Far fetched Dreams Which Aspect-ed From DSPU's To deliver Which are Still Struggling With LCA project To Make it Par With IAF ASQR

Based On Current Procurement's Picture of IAF Projected in 2025

272 Su-30 MKI
51 Mirage M2k (bound retire in 2030-32)
78 Mig-29 UPG (retire by 2030-32)
LCA MK1/MK1A 80 +
36 Rafale F3R (36 more If Follow on order goes through )
Jaguars 74+ Mostly Darin-3 upgraded
87Mig-27 retired
245 Mig-21 retired

Short Fall Of IAF Will Around 400 + fighters in various Roles At-least by 2048

To see What minimum required See To what available to us And We should Give Priority To just adding up numbers or Quality aswell

Gripen E is Good Omini role Fighter With higher Payload And EW And Sensors And Better Weapon Integration +longer range
Rafale Will be Another Option Which has same quality And Weapon Integration And longer range


Numbers Required

100 Light To medium Weight fighters (Gripen )
100 To Heavy And medium weight (rafale)

To correct Short Fall Further buying 2 Squadrons of MKI more And rest Con be made up With LCA and it variant

Correct Numbers Should be

300+ Su-30 MKI
100 Rafale
100 Gripen or other option
150 + LCA and Its variants

To Counter 5th Generation Threat of PLAAF We Should Find Options Sooner Within 2-3 years or It Will haunt Us in future

Assessment I made Is on Facts And Possible Given Future Scenarios by Analysis of capabilities of IAF competition Like PAF and PLAAF And Its Doctrine

PS: You Are free To Add Your Inputs Or Analyze Mine
Yeah, your Mig21 and Mig27 numbers are incorrect. These are the older 2014 numbers from Wiki.
 

Kshithij

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What is the importance of FOC for Mk2 to make MK2?
For your kind information, Project LCA is one of the well funded project of India even better than ISRO.

IAF always like best in class and we'll furnished Aircrafts.

MK2 is stalled in recent days and will not progress further until MK1 will get its FOC.

You may expect FOC by 3rd quarter of next year

Its only a propaganda. Few months ago, IAF officially praise LCA for economic and operational ease. And it will be further improved in mk1A which have way better modular design.
 

Steven Rogers

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For your kind information, Project LCA is one of the well funded project of India even better than ISRO.

IAF always like best in class and we'll furnished Aircrafts.

MK2 is stalled in recent days and will not progress further until MK1 will get its FOC.

You may expect FOC by 3rd quarter of next year

Its only a propaganda. Few months ago, IAF officially praise LCA for economic and operational ease. And it will be further improved in mk1A which have way better modular design.
Something which is under work in secrecy doesn't make it is not moving since you not getting anything from beloved paid media, 3rd quarter in the deadline by mod, meanwhile avg time from of foc from ioc is nearly 7-10 years. The funds weren't released when required from time to time, so no need to look at total.

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Steven Rogers

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Enemy Will Not Listen to Cry babies these stupid excuses When they attack on us
PLAAF Has

400 J-10
234 J-11 ,J-15

28 J-20 already built and finalized for induction

others Aircraft


Pakistan is Churning JF-17 100 + are already manufactured
they will go for 100 more With AESA and other improvement


While We Will Still Waiting for Dream call AMCA And Tejas MK2 which on paper not on Reality
They will Induct an aircraft which will have significantly low grade Chinese aesa with aircooling, where is the prototype of F16bl70, where it flown, Gripen E won't be operational before 2023(if goes smooth). And F16s will be disastrous for IAF when they use it as an interceptor, it will badly perform from 0.6mach against any fighter(including F7) in Chinese military, same goes for paksitani F16s.... Those CFT and major structural modifications have killed the instantaneous maneuvers of F16, and now can be an easy target at wvr by any plane, still its radar can't see beyond 120kms for 5m2 target with Apg83(as per claims), they made in processing intensive than the range.... Still I see LCA has better range in aesa whether it is RBE2, ELM2052 or UTTAM, most importantly LCA is designed to perform in indian conditions, NE will turned out a graveyard of any single engine except LCA, no matter everyone Knows the record of Gripen, and what happened to America "combat proven" when they were evaluated by the IAF .

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TPFscopes

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What is the importance of FOC for Mk2 to make MK2?
Delays in MK1 foc is hitting all linked projects.
The IFR integration, Weapons Integration algorithms and other critical technologies are still in development phase with LCA MK1 and they all need to be finalized before putting them on MK2.
You need to clear your step 1 before going ahead for step 2. MK1, MK1A and MK2 are linked with each other. They can't run in parallel.
 

TPFscopes

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Something which is under work in secrecy doesn't make it is not moving since you not getting anything from beloved paid media, 3rd quarter in the deadline by mod, meanwhile avg time from of foc from ioc is nearly 7-10 years. The funds weren't released when required from time to time, so no need to look at total.

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For LCA , I don't need to rely on Media.
And as I said, LCA is one of well funded project means that it got its funds released whenever required.
 

Steven Rogers

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For LCA , I don't need to rely on Media.
And as I said, LCA is one of well funded project means that it got its funds released whenever required.
The funds bw period of TD to numerous prototype weren't made properly, else LCA could had broken sound barrier before 2006, the reason for Former DM Manohar Parrikar saying "LCA should have inducted 10 years ago" has weight....

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Steven Rogers

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Delays in MK1 foc is hitting all linked projects.
The IFR integration, Weapons Integration algorithms and other critical technologies are still in development phase with LCA MK1 and they all need to be finalized before putting them on MK2.
You need to clear your step 1 before going ahead for step 2. MK1, MK1A and MK2 are linked with each other. They can't run in parallel.
Mk2 will not have to receive FOC, and so as mk1a, as per ADA and HAL. Mk1 is heading smoothly towards foc, and receiving it in five years is much better than the rafale and EFT which took more than 7 years to get foc.

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TPFscopes

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The funds bw period of TD to numerous prototype weren't made properly, else LCA could had broken sound barrier before 2006, the reason for Former DM Manohar Parrikar saying "LCA should have inducted 10 years ago" has weight....

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Its nothing more than a political dialogue..
Mk2 will not have to receive FOC, and so as mk1a, as per ADA and HAL. Mk1 is heading smoothly towards foc, and receiving it in five years is much better than the rafale and EFT which took more than 7 years to get foc.

MK2 has to get its IOC and FOC for its own because there will be lot of design changes. Just like GRIPEN-E has to achieve its FOC by 2022.
Don't rely on rumours.

An official dialogue by Subhash Bhamre in Lok Sabha
"Final Operational Clearance (FOC) of LCA (Navy) MK-II is likely to be obtained by 2023 for induction in Indian Navy and FoC for Air Force MK-II is likely to be obtained by December 2025," he said.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/04/final-operational-clearance-foc-of-lca.html?m=1
 

kamaal

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Why are people panicking over here regarding PLAAF and PAF's increasing air power. Why do people don't consider the SAM capability of IA & IAF ? Plus PLAAF is not filled with dumb officers who will risk, taking all their jets in the harsh conditions of Tibet.

There are contingency plans for IAF if the current plans doesn't succeed, we have option to buy the second hand Mirages from UAE and upgrade them or rather go for 36+18 extra Rafale and 40 extra MKIs are never bad and according to me rather than maintaining 100 Mig-21/Mig-27 its better to have 36 well equipped Rafale in inventory, which can do much more damage to enemy.

40 MK1 should be delivered asap even if they are not the product IAF asked for. IAF should accept as they are the biggest culprit for not planning and cooperating with the PSUs in LCA project.
 

proud_indian

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Delays in MK1 foc is hitting all linked projects.
The IFR integration, Weapons Integration algorithms and other critical technologies are still in development phase with LCA MK1 and they all need to be finalized before putting them on MK2.
You need to clear your step 1 before going ahead for step 2. MK1, MK1A and MK2 are linked with each other. They can't run in parallel.
So there are no parallel work going on MK-1 and MK-1A huh! It seems logical as the technologies that are being tested for FOC will pave their way on MK-1A.

1) Is there any planned weight reduction on MK-1A as I have seen two conflicting reports. 1st says there will be a major weight reduction and 2nd says there will be some weight gain due to radar?

2) When can we expect the first MK1-A roll out?
 

proud_indian

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Sorry but recently watched the CNBC report and the HAL personnel said specifically that they apply RAM coating to the current production variant.

The video is available on youtube..
yes you are right, even I saw that on "Make In India A new deal for defence" latest episode.
 

Steven Rogers

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