Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

[Kunal Biswas]

This is not the place for this article, Indian today has a history of bashing anything Indigenous ..

This is not the first nor it will be their last where you will find such nonsense ..

Their is plenty of source available within this thread to prove almost every claims here a nonsense ..

Chapter closed ..

Tejas far behind competitors, not enough to protect Indian skies: IAF

Tejas - the indigenously made Light-Combat single engine fighter - isn't enough to protect Indian skies, the India Air Force (IAF) has told the government. The response came after the South Block asked the IAF to scrap its plans of acquiring single-engine fighters from global, top sources told India Today.

The IAF said the Tejas is far behind its competitors like the JAS 39 Gripen manufactured by the Swedish aerospace company Saab and the US made F-16 manufactured by Lockheed Martin, sources said.

National Security Advisor Ajit Doval is understood to have raised the issue following which the government asked the IAF to scrap its plans to acquire foreign made single engine fighters and go for the Indian made fighters only. Recently, the IAF made a presentation to the government to explain why Tejas alone can't meet India's requirements.
Documents accessed by India Today reveal that the IAF has told the government that the "endurance" of Tejas in combat is just about 59 minutes as against 3 hours of Gripen and nearly 4 fours for the F-16. Also, Tejas can carry a pay-load of about three tons against nearly six tons and seven tons by the Gripen and F-16 respectively.

"In other words, for target that needs about 36 bombs to be destroyed, one will have to deploy six Tejas as against just three Gripen or F-16," the IAF has told the government.

The IAF has also said Tejas needs 20 hours of serving for every hour of flying as against six hours for Gripen and 3.5 hours for F-16.

The cost of maintaining the Tejas is much higher than the other fighters. Also, both the F-16 and Gripen has a life-span of 40 years against just 20 of Tejas. And, in some areas the vintage Russian made Mig-21 is better than Tejas, the IAF is understood to have told the government.

India is desperate for single-engine fighters to replace aging MiG-21s. The country needs at least 42 fighter squadrons to fight a two front war, but currently has only 33 squadrons. And, at least another 11 fighter squadrons of the IAF will have to be retired in the next two years.

So far, the IAF has ordered 123 Tejas fighters but wants a better single-engine fighter to make up for the huge-shortfall in the fighter strength. Of the 123 Tejas fighters, only 40 will be Tejas Mark-1 and the rest 83 will be an upgraded version.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...g-21-fighter-planes-ajit-doval/1/1086425.html

Tejas has only 59 minutes of endurance

A presentation by the Indian Air Force to the government has revealed some deficiencies of the Tejas fighter against the F-16 and Gripen.
The service is trying to explain its case for buying a single-engine fighter in the open market instead of increasing its order for Tejas.

One of the complaints against Tejas is that the jet can stay airborne for 59 minutes only, compare to more than 2 hours for the foreign fighters.

The payload of the indigenous jet is also less than halve of what the American and Swedish fighter can carry.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...g-21-fighter-planes-ajit-doval/1/1086425.html

Tejas is a little outdated. Ferry range and weight carried for bombs/ missiles is less than jf17. Ferry is less than half as compared to f16. I think delta wing was not a good idea. Creates more drag hence less range.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Tejas Crude specs are nearly same as mig 21. Tejas is certainly better than mig 21 but world has moved on. We have built something and we need to build on the experience. India cannot take on two front war on borrowed wings.

Lol not the same, Mig21 is highly modified to bis yet don't match the specs with its outdated radar and needles in cockpit.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[patriots]

hey ...why we r comparing Tejas with f16 and gripen.....it's wrong na

first time we hv made something...next time we will make the best.

Hal is learning .....

and iaf had just given a rough comparison to convince goi...
my heart broke in to. pieces after reading that news ..from India today. I am a Tejas lover

 

[Kunal Biswas]

IMHO, Tejas MK1 are more modern than Upgraded MIR-2000, Comparing them to MIG-21+++ is futile, If some shameless people have said MIG-21 is better than Tejas in some parameters then i bet Red barron triplane too has some advantages over top notch F-22 ..

But again for the knowledge, Here a fruitless comparison =========== >>

Full Glass Cockpit: No (1HUD+1MFD+limited HOTAS+HMCS)
LCA: Yes (3MFD, HUD, full HOTAS, Helmet Mounted Display - better than cueing sight)

LCA -far more modern ejection seat, the Martin Baker Mk16 as compared to that on the Bison which is the KM-1M, one that is unchanged from the Bis.

Radar: Bison - Kopyo (range limited to 57Km for 5SqMtr, limited scan angles thanks to Bison nose)
LCA: Hybrid MMR - 100 plus Km for a 5 sq meter target, wide variety of modes, scan angles of the order of 60 degrees

EW suite: Bison - Tarang MK1, external jammer which if carried, reduces number of pylons (already limited to 5, by 1)
LCA: Integrated internal suite, with both RWR & jamming capability

Litening pod for the LCA; not on the Bison

Propulsion: LCA - modern more reliable powerplant with FADEC
Bison: Older gen powerplant, no FADEC, issues with reliability and maintenance

LCA: FBW for carefree handling and pilot friendlyness; has FBW dictate maneuvering limits with loads, stores, and other criteria preventing errors
Bison: No

LCA: Special measures for reduced signature in design itself - canopy, airframe, use of specific materials, Y shaped intakes displaced for signature reduction
Bison: Original MiG-21 design, only RAM possible, comes with weight penalty, important as weapons add radar signature

LCA: Able to carry dedicated LDP/Special store on dedicated pylon
Bison: No

LCA: Has 7+1 pylons per design
Bison: 4+1, limiting flexibility

Payload: Edge to LCA even using 6400 Kg empty aircraft weight (~900 kg over original 5.5T) and 10.5T, empty weight with 2R73E missiles included. Has payload of 2.5T for 5 remaining pylons

Growth potential: Edge to LCA - items such as Oxygen generating equipment being included, plus In Flight Refuelling

Stores flexibility: LCA has 1760 standard avionics fit allowing for western, Indian, Russian weapons
Bison: No

Avionics: LCA has provision for datalink, has modern avionics, computers etc
Bison: Limited upgrade, few of these are included in current aircraft

Systems: LCA designed around test kits, with simulators for crew
Bison: Limited by original MiG-21 design, only part task training

Combat Radius : Tejas +500Kms, Bision limited to under 300kms ..

---

With 7 pylons and more fuel capability + even disregarding IFR on the way, its a joke to say LCA == MiG-21 as some folks have been pushing on ..

Lol not the same, Mig21 is highly modified to bis yet don't match the specs with its outdated radar and needles in cockpit.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[gadeshi]

Tejas is a little outdated. Ferry range and weight carried for bombs/ missiles is less than jf17. Ferry is less than half as compared to f16. I think delta wing was not a good idea. Creates more drag hence less range.

Do not compare lite fighter F-16 (up to 20 tons MTOW, 1 12-15 tons engine) to ultra-lite Tejas (up to 15 tons MTOW, 1 8-10 tons engine), they are in different classes and weight categories.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

so this is real IAF opposing TEJAS:


https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ine-jet-contest-strafes-lca-tejas-report.html

Shiv Aroor Nov 11 2017 12 44 pm

There wasn’t a whiff of this one coming. And when India Today broke the story this week, it created more than just a flutter.

The newsbreak, televised Friday (video above) on India Today’s 5pm news show anchored by Livefist’s Shiv Aroor, tells of how the Indian Air Force has pronounced the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas a sub-optimal combat platform to ‘protect Indian skies’. The story by senior journalist Sudhi Ranjan Sen suggests the IAF’s words were in the form of a presentation to the Ministry of Defence to fight off a hitherto unknown government move to rethink a large impending campaign to build imported fighter jets in India and instead simply buy more LCA Tejas fighters.

The Make in India single engine fighter (SEF) is expected to be a face-off between Sweden’s Gripen E and the American F-16 Block 70 for a deal that involves the sale of at least 100 jets to the Indian Air Force off a new production line in India in partnership with the private ‘strategic partner’. Thirty-three years in development, the LCA Tejas entered tentative service with the IAF last year, with a total of 123 airframes on order to populate five squadrons. The India Today report suggests the Indian government is wondering why it needs to build foreign fighters in India if the LCA Tejas meets single engine fighter requirements. It is reportedly in response to these questions that the IAF has explicitly labelled the LCA Tejas an insufficient combat platform.

While the Indian Air Force and MoD haven’t officially reacted to the story, the suggestion that the MoD is even rethinking the SEF program is explosive. A Request for Information (RFI) on the contest was to have been sent out to Lockheed Martin and Saab by the end of September. That deadline, the IAF chief later declared, had then shifted to the end of October. With no RFI out yet, the India Today report has amplified questions over the delay.

The report is a perplexing one, given that the SEF program has been brandished as the spearhead of India’s Make in India thrust in the field of aerospace. Suggestions of a government rethink — or an effort to whittle down the scope of the SEF contest — would fly directly in the face of expansive discussions both prospective competitors — Lockheed Martin and Saab — have very visibly been holding with Indian industry under the aegis of the MoD’s ambitious Strategic Partnership policy.

The conflict, though, is an expected one and the India Today report perhaps reflects the multiple pressure points weighing on the government at this time. Consider the following:

1. One of the first questions to justifiably erupt when the SEF contest was announced was why India needed imported light fighters when the LCA Tejas had turned the corner into squadron service and was on a path of steady improvement. Armed with the LCA’s performance data and timelines, HAL and the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) have understandably brought to bear a great deal of pressure on the government to reconsider the SEF. There are specific interests at play here, of course — the SEF won’t involve HAL as a license production house, so the latter has no skin in the new game. Within the LCA Tejas ecosystem, ironically, the ADA has nursed misgivings that HAL simply hasn’t ‘owned’ the LCA Tejas as it should.
2. The SEF fighter deal may not have begun in earnest yet, but make no mistake about the enormous political capital that’s already been invested in it. The world’s largest defence firm has the explicit backing of the most unsubtle and unpredictable political force in Trump to keep the contest at the very least on track. That along makes the India Today report explosive, given that there have been no indications so far that the Indian government has doubts about whether to push ahead.
3. Obviously, both Lockheed Martin and Saab see space for their aircraft in Indian inventory alongside the LCA Tejas. The IAF’s reported pronouncements on the LCA only support the argument from vendors that one platform doesn’t replace the other. Of course, both Lockheed Martin and Saab explicitly recognise that concluding a deal with India will necessarily have to mean technology channels to the LCA Tejas program and the proposed AMCA fifth generation fighter. The LCA program however believes performance improvements on the Mk.1A and the less and less likely LCA Mk.2 would narrow the gap considerably. The truth is, the IAF is stoutly unconvinced.
4. The SEF is an ambitious program brandished as one to cure several of India’s aerospace ills at once — the lack of large aviation-building capacity in the private sector, the lack of leading edge technologies on par with the best in the world, crucial aerospace skilling to support a new paradigm in quality manufacturing, the first true harnessing of Indian Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 and small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in the global airframing business, and not least, quality employment with spill-over effects into other areas. It is these deeply ambitious goals that make the SEF program more than just a funnel to supply 100+ fighters to a customer grappling with squadron strength depletion. Critics of the program offer, on the other hand, that the energies and time spent on creating SEF capacity could well be channeled into improving the LCA program and accelerating the AMCA, additionally suggesting that improved LCA jets could populate squadrons faster than license built foreign jets off a greenfield Indian facility. It is into the IAF’s new pronouncements that these impulses have now smashed.
5. It is difficult to ignore the inventory path the IAF is taking. With a pair of Rafale squadrons, over a hundred LCA Tejas jets and the prospective SEF jets inbound, we’re talking of three all new types in operational service. And this isn’t even considering more twin-engine jets the IAF could consider at a later time, in addition to fifth generation fighters. From an inventory perspective, the scenario plays out ominously: the subtraction of one type — all variants of the MiG-21, and the addition of at least three types.

What to say about "Import Adoring Force"???

I have no words, this is shocking.

 

[SELVAM]

Look at this presstitutes, now they r projecting SE foreign fighter jet deal as saviour of indian aviation industry.

 

[patriots]

"Do not speak to the media, whatever it takes. HQ has tightened things. We have been told phones are tapped. Not sure. To speak, take prior permission in writing from multiple channels," a top MoD soul texts me on Telegram.
So, # AchheDin has arrived! Hurrah! Wow!

source..https://m.facebook.com/Tarmak007/?r...2:0:1512115199:3880367775433615162&__tn__=C-R

don't believe in rumors

 

[binayak95]

Okaay. This is what I am perceiving from conversations over the last few days.

1. ADA and HAL brought a shit-load of pressure over the SEF deal for the last few months. Providing facts and figures that make the LCA Tejas case quite convincing.
2. The MoD began internal arguments for/against the SEF.
3. The IAF has made a sudden preemptive presentation to torpedo any attempt to scuttle the SEF.


This is quite likely what will happen now,

1. Tejas is going nowhere. It will enter service in large numbers. (beyond 200)
2. MiG-21s and 27s will be hastened out of service, both for safety and to free crew for the new birds.
3. The F-16 deal is going to happen. If for nothing else, other than the fact that it is a prospective ticket to the F-35. (And EMALS)
4. Be ready for scrapping of the PAKFA fiasco.
5. More Rafales. Both for the IAF and the IN. The IN is miffed with the MiG-29Ks as well.

 

[soikot banerjee]

Hey I am not promoting myself, but being a ardent supporter of LCA, and some the baseless allegation by these media houses,answered a the issue on quora: https://www.quora.com/Is-India’s-HA...ian-airspace/answer/Soikot-Banerjee?srid=RKYr

Inida today, DailyO and Livefist all of them closely limked to India Today have started this campaign. Tejas is a bait real concern of Dalals is MoD against the SE deal.

 

[VIP]

Okaay. This is what I am perceiving from conversations over the last few days.

1. ADA and HAL brought a shit-load of pressure over the SEF deal for the last few months. Providing facts and figures that make the LCA Tejas case quite convincing.
2. The MoD began internal arguments for/against the SEF.
3. The IAF has made a sudden preemptive presentation to torpedo any attempt to scuttle the SEF.


This is quite likely what will happen now,

1. Tejas is going nowhere. It will enter service in large numbers. (beyond 200)
2. MiG-21s and 27s will be hastened out of service, both for safety and to free crew for the new birds.
3. The F-16 deal is going to happen. If for nothing else, other than the fact that it is a prospective ticket to the F-35. (And EMALS)
4. Be ready for scrapping of the PAKFA fiasco.
5. More Rafales. Both for the IAF and the IN. The IN is miffed with the MiG-29Ks as well.

I hope this comes true otherwise bye bye to indigenous industry. Fuking rats everywhere. What the fk IAF thinks when it clearly knows Yanks not gonna give full ToT and Gripen-E is nowhere near to FOC. And promises from saab would be stalled by yanks if gripen gets go ahead. Who in his right mind would think without having indigenous capacity, during war we would have full support from makers. LCA and AMCA is answer to everything.

BC itna bada desh hai, itni population hai. Itna brain hai jo drain hoke ja raha ha bahar. Ek fighter jet itne saalo se bana nahi sakte. Shameful.

 

[Pandora]

I still feel Tejas can fill the numbers provided you increase the production rate by 32-36 aircrafts per year .But then again if its hover around 16 planes/year,then things might get little worse for IAF with Mig 21 and Mig 27 is about time to retire.
Here,the my internal observation of HAL,they always deliberately keep production rate at low ,so that they keep up their jobs for years to come.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Okaay. This is what I am perceiving from conversations over the last few days.

1. ADA and HAL brought a shit-load of pressure over the SEF deal for the last few months. Providing facts and figures that make the LCA Tejas case quite convincing.
2. The MoD began internal arguments for/against the SEF.
3. The IAF has made a sudden preemptive presentation to torpedo any attempt to scuttle the SEF.


This is quite likely what will happen now,

1. Tejas is going nowhere. It will enter service in large numbers. (beyond 200)
2. MiG-21s and 27s will be hastened out of service, both for safety and to free crew for the new birds.
3. The F-16 deal is going to happen. If for nothing else, other than the fact that it is a prospective ticket to the F-35. (And EMALS)
4. Be ready for scrapping of the PAKFA fiasco.
5. More Rafales. Both for the IAF and the IN. The IN is miffed with the MiG-29Ks as well.

f-16 Dont cut mustard here.

Spacs for F-16
Empty Weight 8,570 Kg
Internal fuel 3,200 Kg
Total Weight (without weapon load) 11,770 Kg
Dry thrust 76.3 kN
Wet Thrust 127.0 kN
TWR Dry Thrust 0.648258
TWR Wet Thrust 1.079014
Combat radius:340 mi (295 nmi; 550 km) on a hi-lo-hi mission with four 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs

Spacs for Tejas
Empty Weight 6,560 Kg
Internal fuel 2,458 Kg
Total Weight (without weapon load) 9,018 Kg
Dry thrust 53.9 kN
Wet Thrust 89.8 kN
TWR Dry Thrust 0.597694
TWR Wet Thrust 0.995786
Combat radius:500 km[181](270 nmi, 311 mi)

And here are the Spacs of our beloved Mirage 2000 (Which are purchased India purchased in reply of PAKI F-16s)
Empty Weight 7,500 Kg
Internal fuel 3,200 Kg
Total Weight (without weapon load) 10,700 Kg
Dry thrust 64.3 kN
Wet Thrust 95.1 kN
TWR Dry Thrust 0.600935
TWR Wet Thrust 0.888785
Range:1,550 km (837nmi, 963 mi) with drop tanks
(Kindly note COMBAT RADIUS is roughly 1/3 of Range. Which again comes around about 500 Km for Mirage-2000 also)

1) Now Combat Radius for all the three Aircrafts is around 500 Km.

2) TWR of Mirage-2000 is worst. Tejas has better TWR then Mirage-2000. (Irony is that IAF purchased it to counter PAF F-16). (But both the fighters are of completely different design (Cropped Delta wings vs Pure Delta wings) and combat philosophy).

All the Figures are as per WIKI only.

I cannot understand how can F-16 having 3 Times more Endurance then Tejas???

 

[binayak95]

f-16 Dont cut mustard here.

Spacs for F-16
Empty Weight 8,570 Kg
Internal fuel 3,200 Kg
Total Weight (without weapon load) 11,770 Kg
Dry thrust 76.3 kN
Wet Thrust 127.0 kN
TWR Dry Thrust 0.648258
TWR Wet Thrust 1.079014
Combat radius:340 mi (295 nmi; 550 km) on a hi-lo-hi mission with four 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs

Spacs for Tejas
Empty Weight 6,560 Kg
Internal fuel 2,458 Kg
Total Weight (without weapon load) 9,018 Kg
Dry thrust 53.9 kN
Wet Thrust 89.8 kN
TWR Dry Thrust 0.597694
TWR Wet Thrust 0.995786
Combat radius:500 km[181](270 nmi, 311 mi)

And here are the Spacs of our beloved Mirage 2000 (Which are purchased India purchased in reply of PAKI F-16s)
Empty Weight 7,500 Kg
Internal fuel 3,200 Kg
Total Weight (without weapon load) 10,700 Kg
Dry thrust 64.3 kN
Wet Thrust 95.1 kN
TWR Dry Thrust 0.600935
TWR Wet Thrust 0.888785
Range:1,550 km (837nmi, 963 mi) with drop tanks
(Kindly note COMBAT RADIUS is roughly 1/3 of Range. Which again comes around about 500 Km for Mirage-2000 also)

1) Now Combat Radius for all the three Aircrafts is around 500 Km.

2) TWR of Mirage-2000 is worst. Tejas has better TWR then Mirage-2000. (Irony is that IAF purchased it to counter PAF F-16, even Tejas has better TWR then Mirage-2000). (But both the fighters are of completely different design (Cropped Delta wings vs Pure Delta wings) and combat philosophy).

All the Figures are as per WIKI only.

I cannot understand how can F-16 having 3 Times more Endurance then Tejas???

I'm not here to do a F-16 vs Tejas. I am not batting for either the F-16 Blk 70 or the Gripen E. What I am saying is the F-16 deal will happen, regardless of our wishes.

 

[aditya10r]

I'm not here to do a F-16 vs Tejas. I am not batting for either the F-16 Blk 70 or the Gripen E. What I am saying is the F-16 deal will happen, regardless of our wishes.

If it happens then it better not bought in 100+ numbers because that would hurt Tejas.

Just buy 80-90 of them and stick to 294 Tejas as planned earlier.

_______________________________________

I am more pro for f-16 because it brings a lot of geopolitical benefits and unlike Gripen e it is a medium combat fighter.

________________________________________

In the meanwhile bump the Tejas production numbers and try to get Tejas mk2 FOC by 2022-24.

_________________________________________

If all this is followed we would have 400+ modern jets in inventory (300 Tejas + 80 f-16 + 40 Rafale).

_________________________________________

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

I'm not here to do a F-16 vs Tejas. I am not batting for either the F-16 Blk 70 or the Gripen E. What I am saying is the F-16 deal will happen, regardless of our wishes.

Betting ????

Are we sitting in a casino????

You bet for F-16

I bet for Tejas.

Lets roll the dais.

Why the F-16 Deal will happen????

IAF and GOI Takes decision while smoking the Pot.

Without any rational or logic, because @binayak95 has said so, so will the GOI and MOD will act.

 

[TPFscopes]

so this is real IAF opposing TEJAS:


https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ine-jet-contest-strafes-lca-tejas-report.html

Shiv Aroor Nov 11 2017 12 44 pm

There wasn’t a whiff of this one coming. And when India Today broke the story this week, it created more than just a flutter.

The newsbreak, televised Friday (video above) on India Today’s 5pm news show anchored by Livefist’s Shiv Aroor, tells of how the Indian Air Force has pronounced the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas a sub-optimal combat platform to ‘protect Indian skies’. The story by senior journalist Sudhi Ranjan Sen suggests the IAF’s words were in the form of a presentation to the Ministry of Defence to fight off a hitherto unknown government move to rethink a large impending campaign to build imported fighter jets in India and instead simply buy more LCA Tejas fighters.

The Make in India single engine fighter (SEF) is expected to be a face-off between Sweden’s Gripen E and the American F-16 Block 70 for a deal that involves the sale of at least 100 jets to the Indian Air Force off a new production line in India in partnership with the private ‘strategic partner’. Thirty-three years in development, the LCA Tejas entered tentative service with the IAF last year, with a total of 123 airframes on order to populate five squadrons. The India Today report suggests the Indian government is wondering why it needs to build foreign fighters in India if the LCA Tejas meets single engine fighter requirements. It is reportedly in response to these questions that the IAF has explicitly labelled the LCA Tejas an insufficient combat platform.

While the Indian Air Force and MoD haven’t officially reacted to the story, the suggestion that the MoD is even rethinking the SEF program is explosive. A Request for Information (RFI) on the contest was to have been sent out to Lockheed Martin and Saab by the end of September. That deadline, the IAF chief later declared, had then shifted to the end of October. With no RFI out yet, the India Today report has amplified questions over the delay.

The report is a perplexing one, given that the SEF program has been brandished as the spearhead of India’s Make in India thrust in the field of aerospace. Suggestions of a government rethink — or an effort to whittle down the scope of the SEF contest — would fly directly in the face of expansive discussions both prospective competitors — Lockheed Martin and Saab — have very visibly been holding with Indian industry under the aegis of the MoD’s ambitious Strategic Partnership policy.

The conflict, though, is an expected one and the India Today report perhaps reflects the multiple pressure points weighing on the government at this time. Consider the following:

1. One of the first questions to justifiably erupt when the SEF contest was announced was why India needed imported light fighters when the LCA Tejas had turned the corner into squadron service and was on a path of steady improvement. Armed with the LCA’s performance data and timelines, HAL and the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) have understandably brought to bear a great deal of pressure on the government to reconsider the SEF. There are specific interests at play here, of course — the SEF won’t involve HAL as a license production house, so the latter has no skin in the new game. Within the LCA Tejas ecosystem, ironically, the ADA has nursed misgivings that HAL simply hasn’t ‘owned’ the LCA Tejas as it should.
2. The SEF fighter deal may not have begun in earnest yet, but make no mistake about the enormous political capital that’s already been invested in it. The world’s largest defence firm has the explicit backing of the most unsubtle and unpredictable political force in Trump to keep the contest at the very least on track. That along makes the India Today report explosive, given that there have been no indications so far that the Indian government has doubts about whether to push ahead.
3. Obviously, both Lockheed Martin and Saab see space for their aircraft in Indian inventory alongside the LCA Tejas. The IAF’s reported pronouncements on the LCA only support the argument from vendors that one platform doesn’t replace the other. Of course, both Lockheed Martin and Saab explicitly recognise that concluding a deal with India will necessarily have to mean technology channels to the LCA Tejas program and the proposed AMCA fifth generation fighter. The LCA program however believes performance improvements on the Mk.1A and the less and less likely LCA Mk.2 would narrow the gap considerably. The truth is, the IAF is stoutly unconvinced.
4. The SEF is an ambitious program brandished as one to cure several of India’s aerospace ills at once — the lack of large aviation-building capacity in the private sector, the lack of leading edge technologies on par with the best in the world, crucial aerospace skilling to support a new paradigm in quality manufacturing, the first true harnessing of Indian Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 and small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in the global airframing business, and not least, quality employment with spill-over effects into other areas. It is these deeply ambitious goals that make the SEF program more than just a funnel to supply 100+ fighters to a customer grappling with squadron strength depletion. Critics of the program offer, on the other hand, that the energies and time spent on creating SEF capacity could well be channeled into improving the LCA program and accelerating the AMCA, additionally suggesting that improved LCA jets could populate squadrons faster than license built foreign jets off a greenfield Indian facility. It is into the IAF’s new pronouncements that these impulses have now smashed.
5. It is difficult to ignore the inventory path the IAF is taking. With a pair of Rafale squadrons, over a hundred LCA Tejas jets and the prospective SEF jets inbound, we’re talking of three all new types in operational service. And this isn’t even considering more twin-engine jets the IAF could consider at a later time, in addition to fifth generation fighters. From an inventory perspective, the scenario plays out ominously: the subtraction of one type — all variants of the MiG-21, and the addition of at least three types.

What to say about "Import Adoring Force"???

I have no words, this is shocking.

No, IAF is only demanding for more RAFALEs with defamation tactics. Thats all.

And if you're pointing towards Mr. S. Aroor than you should know that at last he is a journalist who likes more foreign income..

 

[Kshithij]

I still feel Tejas can fill the numbers provided you increase the production rate by 32-36 aircrafts per year .But then again if its hover around 16 planes/year,then things might get little worse for IAF with Mig 21 and Mig 27 is about time to retire.
Here,the my internal observation of HAL,they always deliberately keep production rate at low ,so that they keep up their jobs for years to come.

HAL has permanent employees and have to be fed with regular work. This is same even with contractors in real estate.

f-16 Dont cut mustard here.

Spacs for F-16
Empty Weight 8,570 Kg
Internal fuel 3,200 Kg
Total Weight (without weapon load) 11,770 Kg
Dry thrust 76.3 kN
Wet Thrust 127.0 kN
TWR Dry Thrust 0.648258
TWR Wet Thrust 1.079014
Combat radius:340 mi (295 nmi; 550 km) on a hi-lo-hi mission with four 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs

Spacs for Tejas
Empty Weight 6,560 Kg
Internal fuel 2,458 Kg
Total Weight (without weapon load) 9,018 Kg
Dry thrust 53.9 kN
Wet Thrust 89.8 kN
TWR Dry Thrust 0.597694
TWR Wet Thrust 0.995786
Combat radius:500 km[181](270 nmi, 311 mi)

And here are the Spacs of our beloved Mirage 2000 (Which are purchased India purchased in reply of PAKI F-16s)
Empty Weight 7,500 Kg
Internal fuel 3,200 Kg
Total Weight (without weapon load) 10,700 Kg
Dry thrust 64.3 kN
Wet Thrust 95.1 kN
TWR Dry Thrust 0.600935
TWR Wet Thrust 0.888785
Range:1,550 km (837nmi, 963 mi) with drop tanks
(Kindly note COMBAT RADIUS is roughly 1/3 of Range. Which again comes around about 500 Km for Mirage-2000 also)

1) Now Combat Radius for all the three Aircrafts is around 500 Km.

2) TWR of Mirage-2000 is worst. Tejas has better TWR then Mirage-2000. (Irony is that IAF purchased it to counter PAF F-16, even Tejas has better TWR then Mirage-2000). (But both the fighters are of completely different design (Cropped Delta wings vs Pure Delta wings) and combat philosophy).

All the Figures are as per WIKI only.

I cannot understand how can F-16 having 3 Times more Endurance then Tejas???

F16 has range of 2000km while Tejas has 1700km with internal fuel and without weapons. With same weight of weapons, Tejas will have lower range. F16 is also capable of holding 1ton drop tank in the centre and yet have 8 hard point with decent payload of 5.5 tons. In Tejas, if 1 ton drop tank is used, then payload will reduce to 2-2.5 ton with 6 hardpoints left which is significantly low.

Tejas does have problems with size and payload. Tejas also requires an EW pod and Jammer pod whereas it can be fitted within F16. In combat capability, Tejas has much lower RCS than F16 and may have an edge in BVR combat due to small size and composite covering 60% of airframe.

1 F16 = 1.5 Tejas in terms of payload.
1 F16 = 1.5 Tejas in terms of range with optimal payload and drop tanks
1 F16 = 0.5 Tejas in terms of RCS
1 F16 = 4 Tejas in terms of cost

The presstitutes are doing a hitjob. I think they are frustrated that MoD is not giving any information nowadays and are arm-twisting by spreading fake rumours. They are forcing MoD to respond with facts and figures so that the foreign agents can get better information about Indian progress. I can only hope that MoD will never share any information whatsoever with media under such arm-twisting pressure.

 

[binayak95]

Betting ????

Are we sitting in a casino????

You bet for F-16

I bet for Tejas.

Lets roll the dais.

Why the F-16 Deal will happen????

IAF and GOI Takes decision while smoking the Pot.

Without any rational or logic, because @binayak95 has said so, so will the GOI and MOD will act.

I wrote batting, not betting, dumbass. Vowels matter!
Not gonna bother with this guy, who has to have GEOPOLITICS spelt out to get the point. Unless you have been deaf & blind since Trump got elected, it should be pretty obvious which way the wind is blowing. Add to that increasing Russian tendency to be untrustworthy/unreliable/troublesome... and one should get the whole drift....

 

[Kshithij]

I'm not here to do a F-16 vs Tejas. I am not batting for either the F-16 Blk 70 or the Gripen E. What I am saying is the F-16 deal will happen, regardless of our wishes.

If it happens then it better not bought in 100+ numbers because that would hurt Tejas.

Just buy 80-90 of them and stick to 294 Tejas as planned earlier.

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I am more pro for f-16 because it brings a lot of geopolitical benefits and unlike Gripen e it is a medium combat fighter.

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In the meanwhile bump the Tejas production numbers and try to get Tejas mk2 FOC by 2022-24.

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If all this is followed we would have 400+ modern jets in inventory (300 Tejas + 80 f-16 + 40 Rafale).

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What is your urgency? You people seem to be forcefully insisting on your opinions instead of reasoning, giving cost benefit analysis and continuously taking the assistance of people like you who write in the media.

If you have no reasoning to offer that takes into consideration of all the discussion that has happened in this thread, kindly refrain from commenting. We can't keep writing the same thing again and again everyday. Simply have patience and let actions happen