IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

Status
Not open for further replies.

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
The Russian theater upstaged Powell's own disastrous theater on Iraq...


So for those of us already old enough to have witnessed several of these kinds of theatricals, you cannot blame us to be more stringent and less believing of government press releases.
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
Even the Mig debris was cleared up fast no way we can get a pic of F16 debris unless its been "leaked" from Pak side. Also, the article what I posted is interesting analysis, recommend you go through that.

Believe me if somebody took photos then eventually some of it will surface. We just have to wait more time. Just remember photos from Abottabad raid and in dept media articles on it months after the incident.
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
How was IAF whipped in the pakistan? All it lost was one old Mig21 other samples of which keep falling from the sky every other day. So net-net what did it lose? What did the other side gain? Their airspace was empty for more than a month - shows how pak-scared they were.
Well that's whipping to me. Losing a fighter to enemy fire, especially one considered inferior, is always a big deal.
 

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
32,133
Likes
149,071
Country flag
Believe me if somebody took photos then eventually some of it will surface. We just have to wait more time. Just remember photos from Abottabad raid and in dept media articles on it months after the incident.
You seem to be a poor student of history....
Pakis didn't even claim their own soldiers.....
These are pakistani soldiers being buried with honours by IA during kargil...
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
So, chinkis got whipped badly in dokhlam it seems ,I mean we stopped the construction and took over your construction instruments and didn't give it back and neither did you have any balls to take them back till over a month.
I don't know that incident. Maybe you can call it that.
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,567
Likes
9,357
Sorry but this latest presentation by IAF just brings more questions than answers.

In the first place there is nothing sensitive or compromising from that radar grab presented, you expect this kind of tech from both IAF and PAF, so why did it take the IAF almost a month to release it? Had the IAF immediately released this data after the skirmish then there would be a lot less question about its context or authenticity.

Second, context is lacking mainly because those are simply screen grabs. It could be that the F-16 dropped of from radar due to terrain or the track could be a decoy.

Third, this press con clearly is a damage control effort by the IAF after the Foreign Policy article on the count of PAF F-16s. This is probably upon the order of the Government who do not want its chances of reelection to suffer as a result of being qiestioned on the failure of IAF ops in thst clash. So I'll take it with a grain of salt.

We need more data and proof from both sides (official and non-official). And I think we'll have more clarity by the end of 2019...
Your post (and their ilk) is precisely the reason why IAF didn't put out the radar screens!
It was always expected that every yahoo in town will come up with 'smart' counter explanations like..........maybe F16 hid behind a cloud , maybe it hid behind a tree!!! blah blah blah!

Firstly, no one releases technical data from a military operation. Further, you're BSing like a boss without knowing piddly squat about how exactly the AWACS determines a particular RCS as a particular aircraft! Phalcon system is designed by Israel, one would trust they know a thing or two about F16.....as they've only been flying them since it came into existence.

Foreign governments, militaries (not the pretend experts on military equipment) know exactly what happened....and on what basis IAF is sure about its claim. Of course, IAF will not go into further technical explanations!
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
You seem to be a poor student of history....
Pakis didn't even claim their own soldiers.....
These are pakistani soldiers being buried with honours by IA during kargil...
Nobody thinks the Pakistani Government is trustworthy. It's the opposite. And I certainly among the first to question their claims (I do not even want to participate in theor forums). But we're tslking here of an IAF claim. It's incumbent on the IAF to prove it. And telling us that Pakistanis are always deceitful does not exactly prove IAF's claim.
 
Last edited:

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
Your post (and their ilk) is precisely the reason why IAF didn't put out the radar screens!
It was always expected that every yahoo in town will come up with 'smart' counter explanations like..........maybe F16 hid behind a cloud , maybe it hid behind a tree!!! blah blah blah!

Firstly, no one releases technical data from a military operation. Further, you're BSing like a boss without knowing piddly squat about how exactly the AWACS determines a particular RCS as a particular aircraft! Phalcon system is designed by Israel, one would trust they know a thing or two about F16.....as they've only been flying them since it came into existence.

Foreign governments, militaries (not the pretend experts on military equipment) know exactly what happened....and on what basis IAF is sure about its claim. Of course, IAF will not go into further technical explanations!

I get it. After a little backschool brawl with your arch enemy gets you in a very agitated and patriotic state. But still, you must understand that disinterested parties will always look at the issue dispassionately and they will make up their minds based on evidence.
 

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
32,133
Likes
149,071
Country flag
Nobody thinks the Pakistani Government is trustworthy. It's the opposite. And I certainly among the first to question their claims (I do not even want to participate in theor forums). But we're tslking here of an IAF claim. It's incumbent on the IAF to prove it. And telling us that Pakistanis are always deceitful does not exactly prove IAF's claim.
See if this discussion satisfies your curiosity...
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,567
Likes
9,357
I get it. After a little backschool brawl with your arch enemy gets you in a very agitated and patriotic state. But still, you must understand that disinterested parties will always look at the issue dispassionately and they will make up their minds based on evidence.
You're not really a disinterested party!
Your interest lies in protecting your client state.

The evidence is pretty clear.....you just don't want to believe in that. You're essentially saying DNA evidence is not really evidence! It's the age old Paki song!

- DGIPSR says 3 pilots, 2 pilots & then 1 pilot in custody
- DGISPR says the pilot in hospital DIED!! No picture of the dead, no name, no squadron name.
- All of Paki media & people don't bother to ask a word about this dead pilot!!

In contrast IAF made statements on the first day....and stuck with it all along. Even the evidence it is presenting now, it made very clear that it had (also showed to select journalists earlier).

It's just that India is very poor at conducting information warfare....all democracies and open societies have that problem. However authoritarian states like Pakistan, China etc excel at that art & science because the very survival of the country depends on conducting the info war every day.

Pakis are bred to be fearful to ask any question. They're bred to accept any shit from their military-mullah complex.

If you don't understand or pretend not to understand any of the above.....I'd understand!!!
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,567
Likes
9,357
Nobody thinks the Pakistani Government is trustworthy. It's the opposite. And I certainly among the first to question their claims (I do not even want to participate in theor forums). But we're tslking here of an IAF claim. It's incumbent on the IAF to prove it. And telling us that Pakistanis are always deceitful does not exactly prove IAF's claim.
Prove to who? Pakis & Chinese will close their eyes & nose even if a rotting Paki pilot body and the F16 wreckage were put in their lap!

India is not begging Pakis to believe their claim...Pakis know that their ass is ripped!

As far as friends of Paki land, like yourself - no body could care less :)
 

itsme

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
738
Likes
1,377
Country flag
The Russian theater upstaged Powell's own disastrous theater on Iraq...


So for those of us already old enough to have witnessed several of these kinds of theatricals, you cannot blame us to be more stringent and less believing of government press releases.
So, how come you dont question the Paki narrative? Regards to Balakot and the dog fight?
 

sayareakd

Mod
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
17,734
Likes
18,951
Country flag
You're not really a disinterested party!
Your interest lies in protecting your client state.

The evidence is pretty clear.....you just don't want to believe in that. You're essentially saying DNA evidence is not really evidence! It's the age old Paki song!

- DGIPSR says 3 pilots, 2 pilots & then 1 pilot in custody
- DGISPR says the pilot in hospital DIED!! No picture of the dead, no name, no squadron name.
- All of Paki media & people don't bother to ask a word about this dead pilot!!

In contrast IAF made statements on the first day....and stuck with it all along. Even the evidence it is presenting now, it made very clear that it had (also showed to select journalists earlier).

It's just that India is very poor at conducting information warfare....all democracies and open societies have that problem. However authoritarian states like Pakistan, China etc excel at that art & science because the very survival of the country depends on conducting the info war every day.

Pakis are bred to be fearful to ask any question. They're bred to accept any shit from their military-mullah complex.

If you don't understand or pretend not to understand any of the above.....I'd understand!!!
Just want to add that Abhai's personal belonging were put on display immediately. They even took his uniform and send him back in someother cloths. But this dead pilot, they cant seems to find anything, except that he is now dead. That was from second video.

Just for record. Pakistanis have started deleting videos. But we saved them all.

IAF data matched perfectly with video data shot by POK residents.
 

Enquirer

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
3,567
Likes
9,357
Just want to add that Abhai's personal belonging were put on display immediately. They even took his uniform and send him back in someother cloths. But this dead pilot, they cant seems to find anything, except that he is now dead. That was from second video.

Just for record. Pakistanis have started deleting videos. But we saved them all.

IAF data matched perfectly with video data shot by POK residents.
The video of where Ghafoora claimed the second pilot as dead on Kamran Khan show (even when he wasn't asked about it) is still on youtube.
Kamran Khan heard that the second pilot is dead....and didn't react at all...went onto ask something else!!!
Pakis are the weirdest people......everything in that country is staged!!!!!
 

Sanglamorre

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
5,783
Likes
26,529
Country flag
Just want to add that Abhai's personal belonging were put on display immediately. They even took his uniform and send him back in someother cloths. But this dead pilot, they cant seems to find anything, except that he is now dead. That was from second video.

Just for record. Pakistanis have started deleting videos. But we saved them all.

IAF data matched perfectly with video data shot by POK residents.
Every time it's brought up, Pakis parade a disingeneous claim that the second pilot is still with them, getting electric shocks and waterboarding. Apparently DGISPR scored a hit since we didn't "claim" the other pilot(s) and now they're giving them info.

Marveleous mental acrobatics. Perhaps a defence mechanism needed to cope with living in Pakistain.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New threads

Articles

Top