IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

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Enquirer

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What is an electronic decoy? What does it look like..
Normally it's towed 1-2 kms away from the aircraft (it can be reeled in & reeled out).
It's essentially an RF transmitter, that will try to lure an SAM/AAM to lock onto to it than the aircraft.
(think of the side-kick character in Bollywood movies who jumps in front of the hero/heroine when a bullet is fired :) )

India's getting those with Rafales!

Pakis can dream....but they have none of those decoys!
 

itsme

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radar image is perfect but i think the target that vanished after 8 sec was electronic decoy and not f-16.pakistan should also release information.this mystery is getting perplexing day by day.
Also lets look at the proofs which is out:

1- ISPR confirming 2 pilots in custody. Then confirming 1 IAF pilot in custody.
2- Sightings of two aircraft going down.
3- Location of the Mig crash site which coincides with IAF version.
4- The missiles from the Mig which shows one R73 without the warhead, which reinforces IAF claim.
5- US DOD denying any counts took place.
6- IAF releasing radar imagery which shows F16 sig disappear.
7- IAF confirming where the F16 might have fallen which coincides with Indian soldiers sightings of parachutes.
8- ISPR confirming the use of F16s.
9- F16s flying low were targeted by Migs.
10- Even before radar imagery was released this was IAFs version now even the Radar imagery has reinforced that.

These does confirm the F16 shoot down. Hopefully the PAF pilot is given the due recognition.


@asianobserve
 
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ezsasa

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Normally it's towed 1-2 kms away from the aircraft (it can be reeled in & reeled out).
It's essentially an RF transmitter, that will try to lure an SAM/AAM to lock onto to it than the aircraft.
(think of the side-kick character in Bollywood movies who jumps in front of the hero/heroine when a bullet is fired :) )

India's getting those with Rafales!

Pakis can dream....but they have none of those decoys!
Again!!!!! Bhai mere!!!

I know what I am asking and whom I am asking....
 

Tuco

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Arslan just one question for u buddy. Why has ispr changed its story so many times. They almost have put out a new twist each time they tweet. We have been consistent from day one.
 
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asianobserve

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Sorry but this latest presentation by IAF just brings more questions than answers.

In the first place there is nothing sensitive or compromising from that radar grab presented, you expect this kind of tech from both IAF and PAF, so why did it take the IAF almost a month to release it? Had the IAF immediately released this data after the skirmish then there would be a lot less question about its context or authenticity.

Second, context is lacking mainly because those are simply screen grabs. It could be that the F-16 dropped of from radar due to terrain or the track could be a decoy.

Third, this press con clearly is a damage control effort by the IAF after the Foreign Policy article on the count of PAF F-16s. This is probably upon the order of the Government who do not want its chances of reelection to suffer as a result of being qiestioned on the failure of IAF ops in thst clash. So I'll take it with a grain of salt.

We need more data and proof from both sides (official and non-official). And I think we'll have more clarity by the end of 2019...
 
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Craigs

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radar image is perfect but i think the target that vanished after 8 sec was electronic decoy and not f-16.pakistan should also release information.this mystery is getting perplexing day by day.
If the PAF has shot Indian aircraft other than the mig-21 then it assumes you have not lost any aircraft and hence, you should have audio visual evidence of the same. Let us say the gun cam footage of the plane involved or the planes in the vicinity, why don't you release those? If the Indian plane other than mig-21 was shot in BVR mode then why don't you release the radar tracks of the plane that took the shot? If it was JF-17 then it is surely not BVR mode and should be in WVR mode - if so you definitely should have gun cam footage.

Instead of questioning our evidence, why don't your side produce something concrete instead of GreatFooler's farts.
 

ataru09

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radar image is perfect but i think the target that vanished after 8 sec was electronic decoy and not f-16.pakistan should also release information.this mystery is getting perplexing day by day.
Electronic decoy vanished because of... an R77? But wasn't the R77 variant used an IR guided one? Leave alone that but didn't you guys maintain that all missiles of the mig21 were recovered? What shot down the "decoy"? (hey maybe it was a .... DECOY missile??!!)

Give it a rest mate. Your narrative has more twists and turns than a jalebi right now.
 

asianobserve

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I do admit that PAF's perplexing claim of shooting down a second IAF fighter ads a favorable circumstantial evidence to IAF's shootdown claim. But this is just a circumstantial evidence and it could be a product of PAF simply trying to spice up even mire its score. We still need more proof.
 

Craigs

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I do admit that PAF's perplexing claim of shooting down a second IAF fighter ads a favorable circumstantial evidence to IAF's shootdown claim. But this is just a circumstantial evidence and it could be a product of PAF simply trying to spice up even mire its score. We still need more proof.
We have proof. Just in no mood to release to you. Why don't you present something better than GreatFooler's mental farts, like maybe Hassan Siddiqui's plane's radar tracks or gun cam footage.
 

Aaj ka hero

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Sorry but this latest presentation by IAF just brings more questions than answers.

In the first place there is nothing sensitive or compromising from that radar grab presented, you expect this kind of tech from both IAF and PAF, so why did it take the IAF almost a month to release it? Had the IAF immediately released this data after the skirmish then there would be a lot less question about its context or authenticity.

Second, context is lacking mainly because those are simply screen grabs. It could be that the F-16 dropped of from radar due to terrain and reappeared later on, or the track could be a decoy.

Third, this press con clearly is a damage control effort by the IAF after the Foreign Policy article on the count of PAF F-16s. This is probably upon the order of the Government who do not want its chances of reelection to suffer as a result of being qiestioned on the failure of IAF ops in thst clash. So I'll take it with a grain of salt.

We need more data and proof from both sides (official and non-official). And I think we'll have more clarity by the end of 2019...
First you say they don't release and when they release you say why released now.
They released because you questioned their "professionalism" .
 

ezsasa

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I do admit that PAF's perplexing claim of shooting down a second IAF fighter ads a favorable circumstantial evidence to IAF's shootdown claim. But this is just a circumstantial evidence and it could be a product of PAF simply trying to spice up even mire its score. We still need more proof.
who is WE here? .
anyone other than @Arsalan123 needs more proof?
 

Aaj ka hero

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who is WE here? .
anyone other than @Arsalan123 needs more proof?
Certainly sir @asianobserve does need evidence.
He has gone so far in making PAF claims right despite us telling him they are "known liars who don't care even their own soldiers" but no,well look like phillipines know PAKISTAN habit better than INDIA.
So, this type of thing happens, when you say "sun comes from west for since your birth" it is hard to accept sudden truth.
 

itsme

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Sorry but this latest presentation by IAF just brings more questions than answers.

In the first place there is nothing sensitive or compromising from that radar grab presented, you expect this kind of tech from both IAF and PAF, so why did it take the IAF almost a month to release it? Had the IAF immediately released this data after the skirmish then there would be a lot less question about its context or authenticity.

Second, context is lacking mainly because those are simply screen grabs. It could be that the F-16 dropped of from radar due to terrain and reappeared later on, or the track could be a decoy.

Third, this press con clearly is a damage control effort by the IAF after the Foreign Policy article on the count of PAF F-16s. This is probably upon the order of the Government who do not want its chances of reelection to suffer as a result of being qiestioned on the failure of IAF ops in thst clash. So I'll take it with a grain of salt.

We need more data and proof from both sides (official and non-official). And I think we'll have more clarity by the end of 2019...
Lol!! Mate you are making a mockery of yourself. All these days you were moaning for radar imagery when that is out you question its authenticity? Looking at the series of events even from Pak side it is evident PAF lost an aircraft. How is that the F16 which was targeted by Mig was the only one which disappeared? Mig fired a heat seeker at the F16 so, the electronic decoy wont work on it. If you look at things from a biased POV you will not be satisfied with any evidence other than the debris which is close to impossible as Pak are very good at cover up, they even almost succeeded covering up an entire war. Go through the below link if you have time. Failure of IAF ops you say? Please tell em how? IAF on 27th Feb thwarted a PAF strike on IA installations, how is that a failure?

https://medium.com/@sameerjoshi73/the-slip-between-the-cup-and-the-lip-9052f1bd7171
 

asianobserve

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First you say they don't release and when they release you say why released now.
They released because you questioned their "professionalism" .
No. The F-16 shootdown claim is questioned widely by military observers because it came in the heels of the downing of Mig-21 and there is no proof of the claim except an AMRAAM wreckage that only proves tge participation of F-16s. The IAF has a motive to make that claim to avoid an international embarassment if being whipped in the a*s by a much smaller air force.
 

Aaj ka hero

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No. The F-16 shootdown claim is questioned widely by military observers because it came in the heels of the downing of Mig-21 and there is no proof of the claim except an AMRAAM wreckage that only proves tge participation of F-16s. The IAF has a motive to make that claim to avoid an international embarassment if being whipped in the a*s by a much smaller air force.
Look dude here things don't go like this.
I am saying you again and again.
If IAF ass did got wiped out they would had said it SO THAT OUR SLEEPING GOVERNMENT COULD FASTTRACK ON PROCUREMENTS.
YOU really think we are banana republic.
 

asianobserve

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Lol!! Mate you are making a mockery of yourself. All these days you were moaning for radar imagery when that is out you question its authenticity? Looking at the series of events even from Pak side it is evident PAF lost an aircraft. How is that the F16 which was targeted by Mig was the only one which disappeared? Mig fired a heat seeker at the F16 so, the electronic decoy wont work on it. If you look at things from a biased POV you will not be satisfied with any evidence other than the debris which is close to impossible as Pak are very good at cover up, they even almost succeeded covering up an entire war. Go through the below link if you have time. Failure of IAF ops you say? Please tell em how? IAF on 27th Feb thwarted a PAF strike on IA installations, how is that a failure?

https://medium.com/@sameerjoshi73/the-slip-between-the-cup-and-the-lip-9052f1bd7171

I was actually more interested in satellite photos or smart phone photos of the F-16 crash site than radar screen grabs that can easily be doctored likw what Russia did in the MH-17 shot down. Remember the theatrical Russian MOD presentation after the MasB777 shoot down complete with giant screens?
 

asianobserve

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For those of you too young to remember the tragic Mh-17 shoot down by Russian Buk SAM, here's Russia's comical briefing video:

 

itsme

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I was actually more interested in satellite photos or smart phone photos of the F-16 crash site than radar screen grabs that can easily be doctored likw what Russia did in the MH-17 shot down. Remember the theatrical Russian MOD presentation after the MasB777 shoot down complete with giant screens?
Even the Mig debris was cleared up fast no way we can get a pic of F16 debris unless its been "leaked" from Pak side. Also, the article what I posted is interesting analysis, recommend you go through that.
 

Craigs

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No. The F-16 shootdown claim is questioned widely by military observers because it came in the heels of the downing of Mig-21 and there is no proof of the claim except an AMRAAM wreckage that only proves tge participation of F-16s. The IAF has a motive to make that claim to avoid an international embarassment if being whipped in the a*s by a much smaller air force.
How was IAF whipped in the pakistan? All it lost was one old Mig21 other samples of which keep falling from the sky every other day. So net-net what did it lose? What did the other side gain? Their airspace was empty for more than a month - shows how pak-scared they were.
 
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