IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[Foxbat]

I was wondering can someone use OSINT to verify these serial numbers like it was done for the AMRAAM the Pakistanis claimed was from Taiwan ?

I'm sure Pakistanis have faked them since they were released one year after the incident but they could not match the exact 4 which were on Abhinandan's Mig-21? I'm sure the IAF has the exact 4 serial numbers that were on deployed.

 

[SavageKing456]

I was wondering can someone use OSINT to verify these serial numbers like it was done for the AMRAAM the Pakistanis claimed was from Taiwan ?

View attachment 45728

I'm sure Pakistanis have faked them since they were released one year after the incident but they could not match the exact 4 which were on Abhinandan's Mig-21? I'm sure the IAF has the exact 4 serial numbers that were on deployed.

Tampering is done by Pakistanis

 

[scatterStorm]

The Pakistani's can go to any extent in fake propaganda on the internet and unfortunately some people believe it without verifying.

Here is a "National Geographic Documentary" on Indian attack on Pakistan Abhinandan Varthaman 27 February 2020

82k views and over 1.4k likes!


Only problem is that National Geographic never made this documentary and this is a 100% Fake ! :bounce:

Who is this Allan Warrens? Man there propaganda production quality is dope, but there school education is shit. But they are winning in propaganda... so fakery put to good use.:biggrin2:

 

[scatterStorm]

This is what ISI said or IAF EX AIRCHIEF SAID? You cant even understand what your BS DHOANA is saying now?

Go and confirm for the following if you want to logically debate here:

1. The range, pok of R73 at different altitudes, and the NEZ of Archer missile (Fox2).
2. The Phezatron radar.
3. The HMS along complementing firing solution to a Fox2.
4. Mutual Exchange of missiles, because they did converged. (I'll post the image if you want to).
5. Fire solutions... as our aggressor squadron lead (COPE15), doesn't go yelling on comms (Fox2, Fox2) not on whim unlike your immature pilot who crashed an F16 in an immature altitude calculation.

"That's why Abhinandan gets to live another day, and your squadron lead doesn't".

6. How AWACS actively do SAT, paint the electronic identification code based on jets RCS.
7. Why your F16 was around at 20K-30K feets, and our Mig21B was at much lower height.
8. Climb Rate of Mig21 and ITR and Mig Vapor trail.

Learn an come to me.

 

[scatterStorm]

Indians who shot down their own Mi-17 helicopter in Confusion, Who Doesn't have proof that they shot down F-16, Hell even the man who they said, downed an F-16, cant verify own his own that he shot down a F-16 are basing their claims of 2nd pilots on ignorant civilians who mistook second parachute and an ejection seat as second pilot as a proof that there was a 2nd pilot?

What is this a circus show? Lucky Irani circus show being conducted on this thread everynow and then LOL.

Mi17 was scrambled to possibly locate abhi while going radio silence, probably also shutting down its friend and foe identification system. Yes our airmen shot down our own, but because it was a risk they took to bring back the sole pilot who has made history while downing your F16D.

I don't care about chutes, I care about the radar mappings by IAF, Flight Characteristics of Mig21B variant, its armament and WVR engagement that happened near Mirpur. Even if your F16Ds did a doppler shifting by increasing acceleration to outdo the SAT of AWACS, within seconds it would've been rediscovered by any AWACS.

My single question to you is very simple, show me how the F16 radar blip went out of the map? Have an answer for that? Did it went to 4th dimension?

I suggest you do some homework: watch from 4:00 onwards you would hear the term, "Cranking offbore".


Your F16D pilot did a Banzai attack maneuver (BVR + WVR) a.k.a "Launch and then decide", hence many Aim120C were fired from a larger distance but since past its NEZ, our opportune pilots simply out maneuvered it, so let see:

1. Your F16D did fire Fox3s at BVR. (Check)
2. Later they went WVR. (Check)
3. Expecting Abhi to go "Cold"! (Check)
4. But wait... Abhi wen't "hot". (Check) as confirmed by our ground operators. (double check).
5. Abhi used its HMS, climbed to 20K feets and when Bisons radar found a firing solution for its Fox2, meaning it was close to 30 to 35Km in distance from target.
6. While the F16 RWR lit up, your pilot now "cranked", found a firing solution, fired...
7. Abhi jet too was caught up with a Fox3 post crank, but your F16D was also caught up to a Fox2.

Verdict: Mutual Kill.

 

[Foxbat]

There has been a lot of conjecture why the IAF Su-30s did not fire back when rules of engagement were broken by the PAF by firing AMRAAMs across the border. Some people have said they could not get a firing solution, have inferior radar/missiles with less range etc.

I would like to point out missile range depends on a lot of factors like launch aircraft velocity, altitude, relative motion of the target etc. Below is the launch envelope of a Russian RVV-AE BVR and it is similar to all BVR missiles. Range for the missile is greatest when its fired from a high altitude at a low altitude target when both targets are converging. This is the exact scenario which happened when the PAF F-16s fired from an altitude of 40-42k ft at the Sukhois at 10-12k ft when both were converging at the LOC hence giving maximum range. Also I have read the F-16s went supersonic before launch further increasing the range of the missiles.

When the target is receding and flying away from the launch aircraft missile range decreases by 66% and even more if the target aircraft is at a higher altitude. This is the exact scenario that happened when the Su-30s evaded the AMRAAMs they turned back to face the F-16s which turned around and were flying away from them and a much higher altitude. Hence the Su-30s could not fire back as this the worst case scenario with a receding target at high altitude which givens minimum BVR missile range.

If the situation was reversed the F-16s could not fire back from this position either.

 

[SavageKing456]

There has been a lot of conjecture why the IAF Su-30s did not fire back when rules of engagement were broken by the PAF by firing AMRAAMs across the border. Some people have said they could not get a firing solution, have inferior radar/missiles with less range etc.

I would like to point out missile range depends on a lot of factors like launch aircraft velocity, altitude, relative motion of the target etc. Below is the launch envelope of a Russian RVV-AE BVR and it is similar to all BVR missiles. Range for the missile is greatest when its fired from a high altitude at a low altitude target when both targets are converging. This is the exact scenario which happened when the PAF F-16s fired from an altitude of 40-42k ft at the Sukhois at 10-12k ft when both were converging at the LOC hence giving maximum range. Also I have read the F-16s went supersonic before launch further increasing the range of the missiles.

View attachment 45774

When the target is receding and flying away from the launch aircraft missile range decreases by 66% and even more if the target aircraft is at a higher altitude. This is the exact scenario that happened when the Su-30s evaded the AMRAAMs they turned back to face the F-16s which turned around and were flying away from them and a much higher altitude. Hence the Su-30s could not fire back as this the worst case scenario with a receding target at high altitude which givens minimum BVR missile range.

If the situation was reversed the F-16s could not fire back from this position either.

A guy claiming(name-swiftretort) he has said
That he has all serial number of missle
Can there be a possibility that paf might have took it from china?

 

[Foxbat]

A guy claiming(name-swiftretort) he has said
That he has all serial number of missle
Can there be a possibility that paf might have took it from china?

The R-73 is used by China and 35+ other countries including many in the middle east which are friendly with Pakistan and North Korea which shared Nuclear technology with Pakistan . It could have come from any where but I'm sure if they were Genuine they would have released them immediately rather than wait a year to research serial numbers :biggrin2:

 

[mist_consecutive]

I was wondering can someone use OSINT to verify these serial numbers like it was done for the AMRAAM the Pakistanis claimed was from Taiwan ?

View attachment 45728

I'm sure Pakistanis have faked them since they were released one year after the incident but they could not match the exact 4 which were on Abhinandan's Mig-21? I'm sure the IAF has the exact 4 serial numbers that were on deployed.

Go and confirm for the following if you want to logically debate here:

1. The range, pok of R73 at different altitudes, and the NEZ of Archer missile (Fox2).
2. The Phezatron radar.
3. The HMS along complementing firing solution to a Fox2.
4. Mutual Exchange of missiles, because they did converged. (I'll post the image if you want to).
5. Fire solutions... as our aggressor squadron lead (COPE15), doesn't go yelling on comms (Fox2, Fox2) not on whim unlike your immature pilot who crashed an F16 in an immature altitude calculation.

"That's why Abhinandan gets to live another day, and your squadron lead doesn't".

6. How AWACS actively do SAT, paint the electronic identification code based on jets RCS.
7. Why your F16 was around at 20K-30K feets, and our Mig21B was at much lower height.
8. Climb Rate of Mig21 and ITR and Mig Vapor trail.

Learn an come to me.

Ask this swift retort guy why Pakistan took 1 whole year to come up with the serial number on R73 missile if it was lying just there? We released their AMRAAM wreckage with the serial number the next day.

 

[mist_consecutive]

A guy claiming(name-swiftretort) he has said
That he has all serial number of missle
Can there be a possibility that paf might have took it from china?

1. Get an R73 from China.
2. Print the serial number obtained from open-source data of missiles sold to India (they took 1 fucking year to get this data)
3. Rough it up with sledgehammer and blowtorch.
4. Display it as 4th missile.
5. Profit!

 

[Blackj]

The most comprehensive analysis of the happenings of 27 February 2019

 

[fire starter]

Qatl ki raat.

 

[JBH22]

The most comprehensive analysis of the happenings of 27 February 2019

After reading it more questions pop to my mind
1. F-16 put the SU-30MKI on defensive, don't know
if odds would changed had they acquired novator
KS172 missile in time.

2. Why Pakistan got upper hand in information warfare?

My greatest disappointment was the Sukhoi on that day

 

[Assassin 2.0]

My greatest disappointment was the Sukhoi on that day

Package of 8 vs package of 24.
Any person with clam will try to be defensive only.

 

[WARREN SS]

1. F-16 put the SU-30MKI on defensive, don't know
if odds would changed had they acquired novator
KS172 missile in time.

Navator is Long range Missile With Less G load
For Less Maneuverable targets Like Re-fueler's ,AWAACS

IAF Not expected That PAF Will brake ROE
Firing AMRAAMs such long range

2. Why Pakistan got upper hand in information warfare?

Authoritarian govt It Will blow on there face like in 1971

 

[Foxbat]

When I saw these picture of the Mig-21 missiles supposedly recovered by the Pakistanis I was surprised how the R-73 on the right wing survived such a crash relatively intact.

What the Pakistanis probably didn't realise that videos exist of the Mig-21 immediately after the crash and not surprisingly the R-73 on the right wing is missing while the pylon is still there and the wreckage of the R-77 is visible.

Scroll to 0:36 in the Video:
If you see the wreckage right wing the two pylons are visible and parts of the wreckage of the R-77 but not remains of the R-73.

I also was always suspicious of this R-73 missile head which was shown to prove that the missile was found with the wreckage and did not explode near any target.

As expected the missile head is absent at the crash screen in the video immediately after the crash (Scroll to 1:10).

 

[Hellfire]

IAF Not expected That PAF Will brake ROE

Did they break any ROE? You had 01 x Mig-21 clearly across LC and in violation of own ROE. A missile/bullet fired in own side can and do travel across LC.

 

[Hellfire]

There has been a lot of conjecture why the IAF Su-30s did not fire back when rules of engagement were broken by the PAF by firing AMRAAMs across the border

Because they fired blind and own ROE was very clear - not to escalate situation wherein they get a pretext to make the previous day's Balakote Strike as an Indian air attack and not a counter terror operation.

Some people have said they could not get a firing solution, have inferior radar/missiles with less range etc.

I think that is Sameer Joshi who started that logic too? And of course, his famous claim of no AWACS in air. Just to make a 'mark' & 'market' people make fantastical claims.

 

[WARREN SS]

Did they break any ROE? You had 01 x Mig-21 clearly across LC and in violation of own ROE. A missile/bullet fired in own side can and do travel across LC.

MKI's were in there Indian Air Space
They risked Civilian Airliners when they Fired Missiles

 

[mist_consecutive]

After reading it more questions pop to my mind
1. F-16 put the SU-30MKI on defensive, don't know
if odds would changed had they acquired novator
KS172 missile in time.

2. Why Pakistan got upper hand in information warfare?

My greatest disappointment was the Sukhoi on that day

1. They were the attacking party, the one who strikes first always has the advantage of surprise. PAF started the whole attack with lobbing long-range BVR missiles at our 2 X Su-30MKIs at CAP. They forced our jets defensive (Su-30MKIs started notching and taking evasive maneuvers, thus losing altitude). In this 2-3minute gap, their bombers quickly dashed forward and dropped their payload and ran away.

We could have chased the bombers inside PoK, but this was exactly what they wanted, and multiple F-16s were conducting BARCAP at high altitude to target any egressing IAF jet.

Did they break any ROE? You had 01 x Mig-21 clearly across LC and in violation of own ROE. A missile/bullet fired in own side can and do travel across LC.

They indeed did,

• They started firing BVR missiles while civilian air traffic was still in the air. Heard that one Indigo flight was a close miss.
• They tried to target our military installation + they tried to target our jets in our own airspace (peacetime engagement violation).
  

And yes, Abhinandan indeed violated ROE, first by going alone & leaving his wingman behind, second crossing LoC to chase them down.