IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[AmoghaVarsha]

In the same vein, I can ask where is F-16 wreckage or show me F-16 going down ?

Ask @IAF_MCC first where is GC Harpreet and Why they are not letting WC Abhinandan to be interviewed by media.

Then Gladly I will answer your side of queries too.

Why should anyone ask IAF and why should they reply about a senior officer?

Right to privacy is a fundamental right in India.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Neptune]

This Patch depicting the restricted HUD symbol of F-16 which shot down SU-30

Of course as usual Pakistan doesn’t have a real HUD so they make a patch because they have nothing to show. The US, French, Russian...everyone release HUD footage, but Pakistan can’t. Also “you messed with the wrong country” children with big egos....


If Pakistani F-16 got that close SU-30mki the wreckage would be inside Pakistan. That HUD picture is amateur.

Here is real HUD footage:

Pakistani military is desperate con artists and liars. Again they can’t provide anything. Many Indians keep asking for HUD footage and because Pakistani has nothing they stoop to this BS.

 

[Neptune]

Pakistani are obsessed. How many fake patches have they made, 3...4?But still can’t show any real evidence of shooting down SU-30. Then they create several fake statuses, Bollywood style awards, tweets and social media flexing.

Are we supposed to believe this is normal behavior?

 

[ezsasa]

Pakistani are obsessed. How many fake patches have they made, 3...4?But still can’t show any real evidence of shooting down SU-30. Then they create several fake statuses, Bollywood style awards, tweets and social media flexing.

Are we supposed to believe this is normal behavior?

Indian govt’s official stand is that paxtan is an abnormal country...

 

[Neptune]

Indian govt’s official stand is that paxtan is an abnormal country...

The Soviets and Israelis as well as Indians largely ignored the baboonery coming from Pakistan. In some cases years later the Pakistanis got humiliated when evidence emerged they completely fabricated shooting down certain aircraft. The funniest part is Pakistan obsessed with these fake shoot downs, phantom aircraft and elaborate claims and stories that never happened. They awarded pilots with fake kills, made countless public statements, made statues, patches, indoctrinated pilots about fake events.

When it’s time to put up evidence, their anus turn inside out and suddenly they can’t share HUD or produce other physical data of evidence.

These are sociopathic liars with dwarfism

 

[ezsasa]

The Soviets and Israelis as well as Indians largely ignored the baboonery coming from Pakistan. In some cases years later the Pakistanis got humiliated when evidence emerged they completely fabricated shooting down certain aircraft. The funniest part is Pakistan obsessed with these fake shoot downs, phantom aircraft and elaborate claims and stories that never happened. They awarded pilots with fake kills, made countless public statements, made statues, patches, indoctrinated pilots about fake events.

When it’s time to put up evidence, their anus turn inside out and suddenly they can’t share HUD or produce other physical data of evidence.

These are sociopathic liars with dwarfism

All these are the impact of moving away from Jinnah’s idea of Pakistan. Of course Jinnah himself can be blamed for this, he wasted many years in the beginning by not defining “what is Pakistan?” Where as we got it done in first three years.

In total “what is Pakistan?” Was reimagined 4 times since their independence , which confused the hell out of every Pakistani past and present. At this point in time only thing definitive about Pakistan is that “it is not Hindu India” everything else is a open ended question for them.

 

[Jameson Emoni]

I noticed that Pakistanese have unusual debating style. They make no attempt to carry out logical analysis of an event. Instead, they rely on rumors propagated by questionable media houses to clutter the debate space.

This whole question of M-21 vs F-16 fight can be logically evaluated by analyzing the statements given by IAF and PAF.

IAF has been very professional throughout this controversy. They made one and only one official statement. The statement was so accurate that nothing about that statement can be refuted.

On the other hand, PAF made a series of contradictory statements which has resulted in foot-in-mouth for PAF and we are left with the question: Where is the second pilot who is supposed to be in Pakistanese custody?

 

[Neptune]

I noticed that Pakistanese have unusual debating style. They make no attempt to carry out logical analysis of an event. Instead, they rely on rumors propagated by questionable media houses to clutter the debate space.

This whole question of M-21 vs F-16 fight can be logically evaluated by analyzing the statements given by IAF and PAF.

IAF has been very professional throughout this controversy. They made one and only one official statement. Nothing about that statement can be refuted.

On the other hand, PAF made a series of contradictory statements which has resulted in foot-in-mouth for PAF and we are left with the question: Where is the second pilot who is supposed to be in Pakistanese custody?

If we are supposed to take that patch with HUD stitching at face value. We should ask...where is the SU-30 wreckage and why can’t Pakistan release real HUD footage? According to fake patch it should have fell inside Pakistan if the Sukhoi was that close. No Indian aircraft were close to Pakistani aircraft when they violated Indian airspace. The closest aircraft that got to Pakistani aircraft were two Mig-21s, one of which remained undetected before it penetrated at least 7km inside Pakistani airspace before it was shot down.

With Pakistan it doesn’t think, nor do most Pakistanis. They put out garbage and gullible people eat it up by the truck load. No Pakistani finds it suspect that Pakistan refuses to show real HUD footage? They don’t find it strange that there is zero evidence or wreckage of an SU-30?


Pakistani military personnel or ISI probably see how people are demanding HUD evidence and mock the Pakistani Air Force and because Pakistan cannot produce anything they make those patches. It’s enough to satisfy Pakistani egos.

 

[armyofhind]

You guys are unnecessarily making fun and ridiculing the Pakistani maddrassachhap here.

In reality, the mard e chowmein porki pilot just shouted Allahu Snackbar in the cockpit and the MKI just dropped to the ground.

 

[Absolut_Vodka]

This Patch depicting the restricted HUD symbol of F-16 which shot down SU-30

Such HUD image can be taken in WVR combat, not BVR that PAF did at extreme: Lob AMRAAMs at 100 km range and scoot. Poor BVR combat training of PAF or they were too scared to come close to Sukhois.

 

[ezsasa]

Such HUD image can be taken in WVR combat, not BVR that PAF did at extreme: Lob AMRAAMs at 100 km range and scoot. Poor BVR combat training of PAF or they were too scared to come close to Sukhois.

And as per the image that F-16 is at a altitude of 34250 feet, and to assume that SU-30 MKI would be flying below or same altitude with an F-16 within visual range while Sukhoi has another 24000 feet to spare in its own altitude ceiling.

Since we are on topic, now would be a good time for someone to post info on what F-16 HUD data represents.

 

[cyclops]

I'm sure as the years pass pakis getting debunked on the F-16 downing will be a more thorough affair.:biggrin2:

Indo-Pakistani Conflict: The First Victim
Old General Guests
1 day ago

By Everton Luiz Pedroza *


In the Indo-Pakistani conflict earlier this year, the first victim - as in virtually all conflicts - seems to have been the truth.

On February 27, 2019, an attack package consisting of 24 PAF (Pakistan Air Force) aircraft flew into Kashmir to target targets on Indian territory. It was retaliation and came a day after the IAF (Indian Air Force) Mirage 2000 fighters bombarded with SPICE bombs an alleged terrorist training camp in Balakot.

The well-organized attack package violated Indian airspace and took the IAF by surprise. In response, the Indians were able to send 8 of their aircraft from nearby bases to combat the enemy. However, only 1 Su-30 and 2 MiG-21 Bison fighters had a face-to-face encounter with the enemy. The Su-30 and one of the MiG-21s returned to their bases after "fury shots" from alleged Pakistani F-16 fighters. But one of the pilots did the unimaginable: disobeying ground control recommendations, crossed the Line of Control (LoC) and entered enemy airspace.

From then on, there was a succession of facts that to date have not been properly clarified. It is quite true that the brave Indian driver Abhinandan Varthaman's MiG-21 was shot down and the real cause of the shooting is still a mystery. The IAF, however, claims that before Abhinandan ejected and was captured, he shot down an F-16 fighter using an R-73 missile.


A series of “proofs” - such as radar images of EW and ground aircraft, transcription of Pakistani radio conversations, testimonials from Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK) residents, videos showing two ejections, among others - was assembled by the Indian Air Force, but Pakistan vehemently denies the loss of any aircraft, as well as showing no evidence of the 2 allegedly downed Indian aircraft (1 Su-30 and 1 MiG-21, both by J-17), nor how such clashes occurred. Worse: At first, Pakistan officially claimed the capture of 2 pilots and not using the F-16s in combat. A few days later both claims were dismissed by the Pakistanis themselves.

From the list of Pakistani “evidence” in this regard were presented the 4 missiles of the Abhinandan MiG-21 Bison - which Pakistan says fell with the 4 missiles intact. The missiles were presented on top of 4 beds in a low resolution photo. Then other photos were shown by various sources, but with only 1 or 2 of the missiles in the same photo. However, recent research shows serious evidence of “fraudulent evidence” in ALL photos submitted as evidence. This is the main object of our analysis.

Photo presented by Pakistan alleging the recovery of the wreckage of the 4 mig-21 missiles. This photo was presented in April, more than a month after the fight (Photo: PAF).

Let's number the 4 table missiles from 1 to 4 from left to right. Number 1: A virtually intact R-73; number 2 is a fairly integer R-77; missile number 3 is a partially burned R-77; and number 4 is an R-73 that crashed into the pylon and caught fire along with the wreckage of the fuselage. Based on a high quality video (see below) taken at the MiG-21 crash site, we can identify various parts of these missiles in the wreckage.

Relevant excerpt from the “ Wreckage of Indian Air Force MiG-21 Bison Shot Down By Pakistan Air Force ” video posted on the Media Talk channel (if you prefer, click here to watch the full video on YouTube).

Our goal is not to say what each missile is or is not - this the Pakistanis have already done - but to show where each of the parts shown on the tables can be seen in the fall scenario.

Below, all parts of the missiles 2, 3 and 4, amid the wreckage, as well as the ammunition of the GSh-23 cannon (compare the photos of the missiles with the parts in the beds).

Fragment of the warhead and solid-propelled section of missile # 2, an R77 (image taken from the video).

Missile Searcher # 2 (image taken from video).

Front of # 2 missile at another angle and # 4 R77 and R73 finder (image taken from video).

Fragments that appear to be from missile # 2, search engine and front directional control section of missile # 4 (image taken from video).

Actuator fragment (tail control) of missile # 3, an R77 (image taken from video).

Wide view of where the front of missile # 3, an R77 (image taken from video) was found.

Search engine and inertial control system of missile No. 3, an R77 (image extracted from video).

 

[cyclops]

Contd.........

Section housing solid propellant and directional control surfaces of # 4 missile (image taken from video).

Rear of R73 # 4 missile from another angle (image taken from video).

Seeker, # 4 missile front directional control system and one R77 actuator / tail control piece. Note: This piece of R77 does not appear in the table shots (image taken from video).

MiG-21 23mm cannon ammunition (image taken from video).

Parts of missiles 3 and 4 appear in all official Pakistani photos as they were seen in the scenario. However, no part of missile # 1 (R-73 Archer) can be viewed in the video . Precisely the missile that the IAF claims Abhi used to kill the F-16. In the picture of the beds, you can see a practically new R-73. Did the Pakistanis go to the wreckage of the MiG and remove only one of the missiles from the scene? Unlikely.

In another photo, you can see missile # 1, and part of its serial number. The R-73 serial numbers, however, have 13 digits. The final two digits of the R-73's serial number were purposely covered by a cloth , according to the analysis of researcher and former Indian fighter pilot Sameer Joshi.

R-73 incomplete serial number with only 11 of 13 digits (Photo: Sameer Joshi)

R73 (1) and R77 (2) with suspected tampering in the same photo. The R73 without the full serial and the R77 with a section that looks new and without the tail control back (Photo: Sameer Joshi)

The scary thing is knowing a replica of the R-73 can be yours for $ 225.

Replica R-73 missile for sale on e-Bay website (Image: e-Bay website screen).

Apart from the R-73 in question, the IAF does not allow any other missile to be fired by any of its fighters. That's where we have the “icing on the cake”. Looking at photos of missile # 2 (R-77 Adder), you can see strong evidence of tampering. The "million dollar question" is: why tamper with parts of a missile that the IAF confirms was not fired, instead of just taking the pieces that were in the wreck and presenting them, as was done with the missiles. 3 and 4?

By comparing the photos of the wreckage with the photos of the beds, it can be seen that some parts of the R-77, which are in the official photos, were replaced by parts in better condition. In other words, they are not burned, as can be seen in the wreckage. The missile section, just after the warhead (warhead), looks fresh out of the factory, with the fins very aligned for a major collision. In the wreckage, no similar section could be seen.

Two pieces of R77 2-missile actuator / tail control. Only one of the parts (missile # 3) appears in the table photos (image taken from the video).

 

[cyclops]

Contd......


When we look at the picture of the beds, you can see that the final section of R-77 # 2 is not burnt.

Another photo presented by Pakistan, with four parts of missiles in a different order (Image: PAF).

The time to resolve any questions would be after the release of a high resolution photo of the R-77 # 2. The photo exists but, for reasons not yet revealed, omits the rear section of the R-77. Bottom line: There are 3 rear sections (where the directional fins are) for only 2 missiles.

Missile R77 with almost all its parts in the picture, only the actuator does not appear. In the picture opposite, the missile actuator # 3. The photo of the missile actuator # 2 should be in the left photo (Image: PAF).

Many theories can be created after the discovery of an R-77 adulteration. Has Abhinandan been shot down by his own wingman , whose name remains confidential? Did Abhinandan make an unsuccessful R-77 shot right after his wingman was attacked with an AIM-120 shot? Was Pakistan using Chinese copies of the R-77 on its fighters?

All of these questions are unlikely. Most likely the R-77 was tampered with to validate the fake R-73 shown in the bedding photo. Two very well-maintained missiles on the same side of the plane give the idea that, depending on how the plane crashed into the ground, parts on the same side that fell after the crash were unaffected by the fire that destroyed the other parts of the aircraft. .

R73 (# 1 missile) in high resolution photo. Absolutely none of its parts appears in the wreckage video. The actual missile was probably fired at the F-16 (Image: PAF).

But what about the tail of the plane, the nozzle, the drift and the sub-tank? These parts fell elsewhere. There is a video (see below) of Shiv Shastry, an Indian military writer, showing all these parts being collected and loaded into a Pakistani military truck. No weapons at the other parts of the wreck.

Relevant excerpt from Shiv Shastry's “ The Mystery of the Missing F-16 ” video (if you prefer, click here to watch the full video on YouTube).

Finding out the veracity of an air combat kill is sometimes very complicated, which can last for decades. This is not our goal! But quite quickly and conclusively, India awarded Abhinandan Varthaman with a “Vir Chakra” (India's third largest battlefield heroic honor) in September 2019, understanding that his action repelled a package of attack aimed at targets on Indian territory, and that it shot down an invading aircraft.

By way of comparison, in the 1965 Indo-Pakistani War, the IAF credited Indian Ajjimada Bopayya Devayya, then Mystére pilot, with the killing of a Pakistani F-104. He would later become a hero by chasing a Starfighter to help other IAF pilots who were being lured into a PAF-set trap. Even with the recognition of the IAF and its fellow pilots, the aforementioned pilot received his “Maha Vir Chakra” (posthumous) only in 1988. Ajjimada died after the crash of his Mystére in Pakistani territory, due to damage suffered in the fight against F- 104. Its merits were only recognized after India was very sure of its achievements.


Thus, it is very difficult to believe that the Indian Government would act lightly in awarding Abhinandan without any evidence of what he did. Especially at a time when collecting evidence is easier and faster due to available technologies.

In air combat, not always shooting means shooting down. It's fact! But with each new information that comes out, it becomes clearer that Abhinandan actually fired at least one air-to-air missile at opposing aircraft.

https://translate.google.com/transl...,15700191,15700256,15700259,15700262,15700265

 

[Neptune]

And as per the image that F-16 is at a altitude of 34250 feet, and to assume that SU-30 MKI would be flying below or same altitude with an F-16 within visual range while Sukhoi has another 24000 feet to spare in its own altitude ceiling.

Since we are on topic, now would be a good time for someone to post info on what F-16 HUD data represents.

It’s laughable propaganda. Check here if you don’t believe me.

http://falcon4.wikidot.com/avionics:hud



It looks like it’s steer-point is 268 nautical miles, likely 268 from base.

Current G is 1.3

Shows it never exceeded 1.2 G (contradicts above)

34 thousands feet altitude

377 knots

No weapons selected but there is radar lock (???)




So F-16 is supposedly at the brink of its endurance, 268 nautical miles from base. Dogfighting with Sukhoi but never pulled more then 1.3 Gs and it doesn’t have any weapons selected or a weapons lock, just radar lock.

This junk is for useful idiots.

 

[Freezer Dam]

This Patch depicting the restricted HUD symbol of F-16 which shot down SU-30

One thing I assured u that if a su30 shotdown that day,we may have another type of discussion here....Again I am saying, it is practically impossible to hide a big su30 wreckage with 3000ltr of fuel. We didn't off our mobile connection that's why u people find out mi17 crash picture and enjoyed in PeeDF..Pls use common sence yaar.....
Just one sane point :
Our media find out details about Abhi before official announcement of GOI...

 

[Neptune]

One thing I assured u that if a su30 shotdown that day,we may have another type of discussion here....Again I am saying, it is practically impossible to hide a big su30 wreckage with 3000ltr of fuel. We didn't off our mobile connection that's why u people find out mi17 crash picture and enjoyed in PeeDF..Pls use common sence yaar.....
Just one sane point :
Our media find out details about Abhi before official announcement of GOI...

I asked this same question to Pakistanis many times and they simply refused to answer or change the subject to something entirely different. On PDF I asked how it’s possible no one had seen or filmed an SU-30 crashing to earth, I ask why no one seen the debris or pilots, I ask why no one witnesses the explosion/fireball and smoke afterwards and I ask why, if India somehow managed to cover up an SU-30 crash they did not attempt to cover up the MI-17 wreckage. They allowed hostile crowds to surround the wreckage and photograph it. These are strait forward questions but Pakistanis don’t know where to begin.

@Dazzler

@Sayaaf



On PDF they just deleted my posts where I asked those questions. No one even attempted to give anything remotely resembling a coherent response, instead I was called names and banned. One also has to ask why Pakistan puts so much effort in trying to convince the world they shot down an SU-30MKI, they in fact obsess over it but so far have presented zero evidence for it. Instead they put effort into making multiple fake statuses, they make a new patch every month commemorating fake shoot down and start flexing on social media like some juvenile kids. They do pathetic Bollywood style awards, they fire off Twitter and do press conferences where they constantly contradict themselves. All this effort wasted when they could have easily presented actual evidence and spared everyone the semantics and drama.

There latest “proof” is another patch, this time with HUD image because if they actually released real HUD footage they would be exposed as liars. On this HUD the F-16 shows it’s apparently 268 nautical miles from base, which is at the edge of its endurance....I guess the F-16 landed in India to refuel or crashed in India as a result of fuel starvation

The Pakistanis never think this stuff through....furthermore. The F-16 was dogfighting an SU-30mki, as well as being airborne for no less then 268 nautical miles from base but didn’t pull more then 1.3Gs....amazing. But it gets better......patch shows super professional Pakistan pilot did not have any weapons selected when the SU-30 was in its cross hairs

But it gets even weirder, Pakistan claimed they shot down SU-30 over Pakistan but it fell in India. Of course there are a million reasons why this makes no sense such as the SU-30 would plummet almost right away down to earth and there is no evidence SU-30s ever came close to Pakistan, but if it were the case, why does that patch show F-16 is 268 nautical miles from base? Again Pakistan is caught lying, so either that F-16 was deep in India and crashed due to fuel starvation while inside Indian airspace or Pakistani F-16 have magical range and are able to shoot down SU-30 without any weapons selected.

 

[angeldude13]

Pakistani are obsessed. How many fake patches have they made, 3...4?But still can’t show any real evidence of shooting down SU-30. Then they create several fake statuses, Bollywood style awards, tweets and social media flexing.

Are we supposed to believe this is normal behavior?

Obsessed?
That word does not even come close to define what these animals are.
One of these goat bangers claims to have shot down 5 IAF aircraft in 40 seconds in 1965 war.

 

[Poseidon]

Isn't the guy on mic is the same one who was claiming SU-30 has been shot down on 27 FEB ?

Here it is

Morphed video.
Here is full video where it shows that he was actually saying the opposite i.e. an F-16 got shot down by Su-30.

 

[cyclops]

Womp-Womp.

Tom Cooper, the well respected international Aviation Expert is highly skeptical of the #PAF's conduct during #OpSwiftRetort