HAL Prachand - Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)

[Killbot]

How can you say that?

Because HAL chairman said that MCH/HCH would fly only in 2028. Wind tunnel tests of any model are a few years away.

 

[Suryavanshi]

My idea of HCH comes from a fact that we would eventually have to fill our heavy combat helicopter role, unless u believe these are gonna be irrelevant in the upcoming decade.

US military has lots of Helis for different role.

Chinook, MH 60, UH 72, Super Stallion, V22: Transport/Utility
Viper, Apache: Attack

We have LUH/Dhurv Mi 17, Mi26, Chinook, and in future IMRH as troop transport.
LCH, Apache as attack.
IMRH may serve as Alternative to Sea Hawk in the future where ASW equipment can be fitted in.
The only thing remaining is one indigenous Attack Heli that acts as a Alternative to Apache, Mi 24.

Remember we have to look into export market for our product as well. South Eastern, South American and African have a rising military so they are gonna need to fill their share. With the Weakening of Russian Economy we are the next contender for Weapon Exports.
We just have to put our hearts and mind to it.

 

[FalconSlayers]

you do know the LCH came from the Rudra right?
this is what they are trying to do with the HCH.

Yes I was wrong. But it should have been done simultaneously with LCH.
I mean a Apache like heli in 2030 would make 0 sense, till then drones would do much of the part.

 

[Killbot]

Yes I was wrong. But it should have been done simultaneously with LCH.
I mean a Apache like heli in 2030 would make 0 sense, till then drones would do much of the part.

Not drones, faster and stealthily tiltrotor aircraft. US is looking at bell V280 and a sikorsky helo to replace Black Hawks, Apaches, Chinooks and Ospreys. Diff variants of course.
They'll partially be replaced by drones.

 

[Rohan Naik]

does anybody else feel the same way?

look at the position of the pod carefully.

View attachment 63731



View attachment 63732



shouldn't the pods be mounted at the bottom of the nose and downwards pointing like shown in below pic?






View attachment 63733


View attachment 63734

i had raised this issue, but nobody took it seriously.

 

[Dessert Storm]

Not drones, faster and stealthily tiltrotor aircraft. US is looking at bell V280 and a sikorsky helo to replace Black Hawks, Apaches, Chinooks and Ospreys. Diff variants of course.

Fighters and the Choppers in future, would work on the hub n spoke concept. One or more manned controlling multiple unmanned platforms.

 

[WarriorIndian]

i had raised this issue, but nobody took it seriously.

Hope this makes you happy. Look at the pod's positioning.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Hope this makes you happy. Look at the pod's positioning.

This is ALH-WSI Mark-III version, This version has Electronic Warfare, countermeasures, sensors and targeting systems installed, but does not feature weapons.

 

[WarriorIndian]

This is ALH-WSI Mark-III version, This version has Electronic Warfare, countermeasures, sensors and targeting systems installed, but does not feature weapons.

Exactly ! This is not WSI ! Areey paaji! Gun rakhne ki Jaga kha thee, to socha hoga ki isko ooper phit karaa dein !

 

[prateikf]

But why are we discussing ALH Dhruv in LCH thread ?

 

[Tshering22]

Friends, I was just comparing some of the prevalent light gunships that are available in the market; you know, just a general comparison between the machines.

It turns out that the HAL LCH and TAI T-129 came into existence around the same time. In fact, it was much later than the initial idea that was floated for LCH way back after the Kargil war. After looking at the timelines of the development, I began realizing that the LCH is way, way behind schedule and in eternal testing mode despite having cleared high-altitude & extreme weather trials.

Check this out:

HAL Prachand - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

vs

TAI/AgustaWestland T129 ATAK - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now I know that Leonardo was collaborating with the Turks for this project, but it is not like we have not made our own helicopter (even if it is taken literally from the MBB-117). What gets me is that why are we 15 years into design & testing & still unable to mass-produce it in the right quantities?

We have PLA sitting right on our necks, and yet we don't have the required strength in numbers to counter their armour in sufficient numbers. Any ideas what could be slowing down the production?

 

[Tshering22]

You know what, I just said what I knew. I'm not gonna push my guesswork as fact.

But I do think Heavy Combat Helicopter aint relevant anymore... No amount of armour can defend against modern threats (& LCH already got as much of it as Apache or Mi-35). Only EW & EW can do that. Any "heavy" is wrt payload only.

What is your take on channelling the HCH's funds into developing a rotary armed unmanned gunship? a medium-altitude rotary UCAV with Nags could be an effective weapon against the PLA units of the near future as well as the Islamist & commie yahoos we deal with in our sensitive conflict zones.

These will be lighter, fly higher & carry more payload since they do not require human seating arrangements.

 

[ezsasa]

Friends, I was just comparing some of the prevalent light gunships that are available in the market; you know, just a general comparison between the machines.

It turns out that the HAL LCH and TAI T-129 came into existence around the same time. In fact, it was much later than the initial idea that was floated for LCH way back after the Kargil war. After looking at the timelines of the development, I began realizing that the LCH is way, way behind schedule and in eternal testing mode despite having cleared high-altitude & extreme weather trials.

Check this out:

HAL Prachand - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

vs

TAI/AgustaWestland T129 ATAK - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now I know that Leonardo was collaborating with the Turks for this project, but it is not like we have not made our own helicopter (even if it is taken literally from the MBB-117). What gets me is that why are we 15 years into design & testing & still unable to mass-produce it in the right quantities?

We have PLA sitting right on our necks, and yet we don't have the required strength in numbers to counter their armour in sufficient numbers. Any ideas what could be slowing down the production?

For a large part of that period we are under tech sanctions because of the nuclear test and Turkey was getting tech from Europe. These kind of tech denial matters a lot.

After the tech denial ended, we got stuck with a Congi Govt whose Top priority was not National Security and indigenous development.

 

[shade]

Friends, I was just comparing some of the prevalent light gunships that are available in the market; you know, just a general comparison between the machines.

It turns out that the HAL LCH and TAI T-129 came into existence around the same time. In fact, it was much later than the initial idea that was floated for LCH way back after the Kargil war. After looking at the timelines of the development, I began realizing that the LCH is way, way behind schedule and in eternal testing mode despite having cleared high-altitude & extreme weather trials.

Check this out:

HAL Prachand - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

vs

TAI/AgustaWestland T129 ATAK - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now I know that Leonardo was collaborating with the Turks for this project, but it is not like we have not made our own helicopter (even if it is taken literally from the MBB-117). What gets me is that why are we 15 years into design & testing & still unable to mass-produce it in the right quantities?

We have PLA sitting right on our necks, and yet we don't have the required strength in numbers to counter their armour in sufficient numbers. Any ideas what could be slowing down the production?

Cliche and shallow answer I know but PSU, funding crunch and many people stand to gain under import of a phoren platform, like more Apaches for example.
Above all Defense production is low priority for GoI, always has been, always will be.
Tejas, LCH, over 9000 different missile types are only to generate employment, actual needs will be met by "emergency procurement".

It is a fucking miracle that the Navy manages to have most of it's active ships Made in India

 

[Tshering22]

For a large part of that period we are under tech sanctions because of the nuclear test and Turkey was getting tech from Europe. These kind of tech denial matters a lot.

But we have been successful in the last 10 years. Come on, tech denial was after Kargil; not in the 2010s. If anything, we were spoilt for choice right since the 2010s to get whatever we want. It seems now that the entire decade went in slow decision-making and the scaremongering by certain corrupt elements of the top brass in the military to induce fear in the politicians who would then go for imports.

After Apaches, we haven't seen any serious induction of gunships. The "LSP" is not enough yet and we have an enemy standing right at the gates.

 

[Tshering22]

Cliche and shallow answer I know but PSU, funding crunch and many people stand to gain under import of a phoren platform, like more Apaches for example.
Above all Defense production is low priority for GoI, always has been, always will be.
Tejas, LCH, over 9000 different missile types are only to generate employment, actual needs will be met by "emergency procurement".

It is a fucking miracle that the Navy manages to have most of it's active ships Made in India

Then we need a full-blown war with China to set the defense sector right.
I am sorry to say this, but if something is possible under the current government, it is only possible if there is a serious war.

Otherwise, the current government model has to be revised and harder decisions have to be taken such as constitutional changes, change from a democratic system to a hybrid model, etc. We cannot continue to become a great power with phoren maal.

 

[Bleh]

What is your take on channelling the HCH's funds into developing a rotary armed unmanned gunship?

Practically we don't have that level of AI.

 

[Akula]

Practically we don't have that level of AI.

HAL RUAV is our first step into rotary drones.

 

[shade]

Then we need a full-blown war with China to set the defense sector right.
I am sorry to say this, but if something is possible under the current government, it is only possible if there is a serious war.

Otherwise, the current government model has to be revised and harder decisions have to be taken such as constitutional changes, change from a democratic system to a hybrid model, etc. We cannot continue to become a great power with phoren maal.

It won't set anything right, on the contrary it will ensure more dhoti shivering and appeasement of chinks by future govts, and like 62' will be spammed by mediawalas to scare and demoralize the public.

Defense production is an after thought in the halls of power.
And there is an ecosystem at work which wants only imports, for their own benefit and that of their clients.

btw there is no intent to be a Great Power anyway by either party or current government, everyone is focused on the next election cycle, and domestic reform goals( i.e un-Lutyen's ing the country )

 

[Tshering22]

Practically we don't have that level of AI.

That can easily be arranged through partnerships.

Obviously, this won't be a fully-autonomous drone; more like a rotary version of the Predator drone. The drone pilot will still fly the unmanned gunship remotely.

If nothing, a group of AI companies from the private sector can be arranged along with partners from Israel. This will most certainly not be a DRDO project, since the babus that control it don't have the mental acumen for such things.

My point is, that conventional gunships are a thing of past. The LCH is here to serve us for that purpose along with Apaches & that is good enough for the next 15+ years. But anything beyond has to be unmanned. AH-64s in the US Army are only serving limited CAS & airstrikes as they increasingly rely on predators. Besides, if Boeing wants, it can easily convert the Apaches into unmanned strike versions.

We have that advantage with LCH. It is domestic & can be tinkered around with without any violation of EUAs or IPRs.

An unmanned LCH will be able to carry far more ordinance due to the absence of all the systems necessary for manned flight. Its range will also be augmented due to additional fuel tanks.