HAL Prachand - Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)

[Suryavanshi]

Army will buy 40 more Apaches (RUMINT) after 6 and 114 LCH and 60 Rudra whereas IAF will use 22 Apaches 65 LCH and 16 Rudra helicopters.

So no HCH? Just more Apaches.

 

[Bleh]

So no HCH? Just more Apaches.

No he's just (incorrectly) repeating the official "hopes & dreams". They planned a total of 22+18 Apaches initially, not 40 more.

Zero indication of any more Apache induction anyway, anytime soon.

 

[FalconSlayers]

So no HCH? Just more Apaches.

HCH is a joke, HAL HCH is not going to be Apache like but a jugaad.
remember Mi-17 equipped with Rockets Used in Kargil?
HCH will be IMRH equipped with rocket pods

Mi-17 armed

IMRH armed (HCH)

 

[utubekhiladi]

basically take the place of the AH-64 in the Indian armed forces

As per my one of my marine friend,

3 things make apache one its kind and deadly.

1 - 30 mm gun (m230 fires AP, HEI and HEDP rounds, which acts as grenade upon impact. 20mm gun like we have on LCH and Rudra is a JOKE)
2 - multirole hellfire missiles
3 - TADS/PNVS or arrowhead suite (the world is yet to make something that can match or come close to its performance)

but it is also Heavily armored. any heli can be armored so not a big deal. also on top of that i have heard marine pilots duck tape Kevlar vest to the bottom and on the side walls for added protection against small arms

so as long as our home made helis takes care of the above said 3 items, we can say that it is a apache replacement.

(i have seen and witnessed live firing of 30mm gun from apache, OMG, that gun is a beast, it can destroy anything from light armor, infantry, buildings, vehicles, enemy electronics etc. most of the people think that hellfire missile is the primary weapon for AH-64, but as per my marine friend, Hellfire is the secondary weapon. the primary weapon is 30mm M230 gun)

 

[Suryavanshi]

HCH is a joke, HAL HCH is not going to be Apache like but a jugaad.
remember Mi-17 equipped with Rockets Used in Kargil?
HCH will be IMRH equipped with rocket pods

Mi-17 armed
View attachment 63729
IMRH armed (HCH)
View attachment 63730

IMRH will hardly be a Combat heli it's more of a troop transport than anything else, replacement of Mi 17

 

[utubekhiladi]

does anybody else feel the same way?

look at the position of the pod carefully.

shouldn't the pods be mounted at the bottom of the nose and downwards pointing like shown in below pic?

 

[Chinmoy]

does anybody else feel the same way?

look at the position of the pod carefully.

View attachment 63731



View attachment 63732



shouldn't the pods be mounted at the bottom of the nose and downwards pointing like shown in below pic?






View attachment 63733


View attachment 63734

Not a thumb rule.

 

[Bleh]

shouldn't the pods be mounted at the bottom of the nose and downwards pointing like shown in below pic?

Ok this misconception needs to be dealt with. Just because Amreekis are doing, it doesn't mean everyone has to.

If you're planning on fighting semi-armed rabble, then that placement matters.
In our scenario if you attack helicopter has to aim -30° below you, then you'll already be dead, especially for light helos.

In conventional conflict, you want your sights as high as possible so that you can peek above the terrain, & if needed, pop up to shoot/launch. Like in the Eurocopter tiger.

 

[Killbot]

HCH is a joke, HAL HCH is not going to be Apache like but a jugaad.
remember Mi-17 equipped with Rockets Used in Kargil?
HCH will be IMRH equipped with rocket pods

Mi-17 armed
View attachment 63729
IMRH armed (HCH)
View attachment 63730

No. HCH will be like the medium weight version like LCH. It'll probably use the same Power plant as IMRH and thats it.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Ok this misconception needs to be dealt with. Just because Amreekis are doing, it doesn't mean everyone has to.

If you're planning on fighting semi-armed rabble, then that placement matters.
In our scenario if you attack helicopter has to aim -30° below you, then you'll already be dead, especially for light helos.

In conventional conflict, you want your sights as high as possible so that you can peek above the terrain, & if needed, pop up to shoot/launch. Like in the Eurocopter tiger.

i agree with your point.

but there is a reason why american weapons are best in the world. because they pay close attention to such small details.

here is my take on why the pod should be mounted under the nose.

what you said makes sense for armed conflicts near borders or rural areas or plains (like thar desert, depsang plans, ladkh mountains etc.) where direct line of sight is easily achieved.

but the same pod cannot be used in urban regions where your line of sight might be blocked by some buildings or a small cliff etc..

also, having the pod mounted on the nose creates blind spot at certain angle/degree. this means your enemy knows that your copper have a blind spot..

what if utubekhiladi is flying LCH and then suddenly few tangos open up machine gun fire under my belly or from my blind spot angle? well- too bad, utubekhiladi can't look under his own belly or at certain angles (blindspot) and counterfire. i will be long dead and won't even have time to curse HAL for one last time.

having the pod under the nose enhances the capacity and eliminates the said blind spot. the pilot have the option to look under the belly as well look straight like you mentioned.

we have seen apache being successful in desert, as well as in Bagdad city. mounting the pod under the nose is not that difficult.

In our scenario if you attack helicopter has to aim -30° below you, then you'll already be dead, especially for light helos.

that's a valid point. i will definitely be dead if i have to aim -30° below. but if i need to, give me a fair fighting chance and provide the ability on my chopper to look below -30° below

why limit the design of our chopper to not look under the belly (-30° below)????

 

[Bleh]

i agree with your point.

but there is a reason why american weapons are best in the world. because they pay close attention to such small details.

here is my take on why the pod should be mounted under the nose.

what you said makes sense for armed conflicts near borders or rural areas or plains (like thar desert, depsang plans, ladkh mountains etc.) where direct line of sight is easily achieved.

but the same pod cannot be used in urban regions where your line of sight might be blocked by some buildings or a small cliff etc..

also, having the pod mounted on the nose creates blind spot at certain angle/degree. this means your enemy knows that your copper have a blind spot..

what if utubekhiladi is flying LCH and then suddenly few tangos open up machine gun fire under my belly or from my blind spot angle? well- too bad, utubekhiladi can't look under his own belly or at certain angles (blindspot) and counterfire. i will be long dead and won't even have time to curse HAL for one last time.

having the pod under the nose enhances the capacity and eliminates the said blind spot. the pilot have the option to look under the belly as well look straight like you mentioned.

we have seen apache being successful in desert, as well as in Bagdad city. mounting the pod under the nose is not that difficult.



that's a valid point. i will definitely be dead if i have to aim -30° below. but if i need to, give me a fair fighting chance and provide the ability on my chopper to look below -30° below

why limit the design of our chopper to not look under the belly (-30° below)????

You know what, I just said what I knew. I'm not gonna push my guesswork as fact.

But I do think Heavy Combat Helicopter aint relevant anymore... No amount of armour can defend against modern threats (& LCH already got as much of it as Apache or Mi-35). Only EW & EW can do that. Any "heavy" is wrt payload only.

 

[utubekhiladi]

You know what, I just said what I knew. I'm not gonna push my guesswork as fact.

But I do think "Heavy combat helicopters" are not relevant anymore... No amount of armour can defend against modern threats. Only EW & EW can do that.

yes, totally agree..

i think when they say heavy, they are referring to lift capacity like weapons, missiles or even passengers or cargo sometimes.

 

[utubekhiladi]

@Bleh

do you know where do they store ammo for the 20mm gun on LCH or in Rudra?

one of friend texted me yesterday and claimed that LCH doesn't have space to store required ammos for 20mm gun. that's why no one is ordering any LCH.

could this be true?

 

[AZTEC]

What HAL wants to make is not exactly a “HCH”. It can be more appropriately described as a “medium-lift combat helicopter (MCH)” because it’s projected to be similar to Boeing’s Apache.

HAL can pull it off. They aim for first flight by 2027 which is realistic.

I think that HAL has planned MCH as a somewhat stealthy equivalent of the Boeing AH-64F, although I would want them to upgrade their plan on the lines of America’s Future Vertical Lift (FVL) project. Perhaps that’s too much to ask.

HAL finalises plan to produce military helicopter on par with Boeing’s Apache Guardian

The Indian Air Force is procuring a total of 22 Apache Guardian attack helicopters from aerospace major Boeing under a multi-billion dollar deal

www.thehindu.com

 

[Akula]

@Bleh

do you know where do they store ammo for the 20mm gun on LCH or in Rudra?

one of friend texted me yesterday and claimed that LCH doesn't have space to store required ammos for 20mm gun. that's why no one is ordering any LCH.

could this be true?

Ammunition for Rudra is stored in its cargo space. Don't know about LCH.
Ammunition loading in Rudra(0:27)

 

[FalconSlayers]

IMRH will hardly be a Combat heli it's more of a troop transport than anything else, replacement of Mi 17

That’s what I said, IMRH will be used as medium lift heli with IAF along with Mi17 and once Mi17 retires, whole fleet will Be IMRH only.

HCH makes no sense, making Mi17 as a gunship costed us a Mi17 and 6 brave hearts in Kargil war.

 

[FalconSlayers]

No. HCH will be like the medium weight version like LCH. It'll probably use the same Power plant as IMRH and thats it.

Why did they did the wind tunnel testing with rocket pods? HCH is IMRH with rocket pods, do you thing they are making apache like heli? Hell no!

 

[Killbot]

Why did they did the wind tunnel testing with rocket pods? HCH is IMRH with rocket pods, do you thing they are making apache like heli? Hell no!

Noooo, HCH has nothing to do with IMRH. Those rocket pods were probably for a Rudra like version of MRH. Similar thing was done with Mi 8 and Mi 17 in both Sri Lanka and Kargil.
Its stupid, but... who are we to question their infinite wisdom.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Noooo, HCH has nothing to do with IMRH. Those rocket pods were probably for a Rudra like version of MRH. Similar thing was done with Mi 8 and Mi 17 in both Sri Lanka and Kargil.
Its stupid, but... who are we to question their infinite wisdom.

How can you say it is not IMRH based?
see this.

 

[Killbot]

How can you say it is not IMRH based?
see this.

That is the IMRH with rocket pods. Nothing to do with HCH. Like I said, HCH is still in conceptual design stage.