Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV)

[Shaitan]

View attachment 47248

L&T FICV

Not L&T but old TATA model from old Def Expo. At this time TATA had a partership with Rheinmentall, which would get blacklisted later.

 

[arkos]

I hope the FICV comes with a hybrid electric power pack. Will free up space to add more armor and firepower without incurring weight penalty something are BMP-2s are finding hard to do. Add a 40mm gun and atgms, you have enough firepower to destroy hardened bunkers along the IB.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Recently there was a repor that OFB was considering adding the new Russian 57 mm canon on its FICV prototype (enlarged modified BMP-2 with 7 wheels).

 

[Karthi]

OFB FICV ignore if already posted

 

[arkos]

Recently there was a repor that OFB was considering adding the new Russian 57 mm canon on its FICV prototype (enlarged modified BMP-2 with 7 wheels).

Will that work ? It will increase the weight too much and the BMP might not be able to undertake amphibious operations. ARDE has already made munitions for 40mm gun which was meant for Abhay. I think they might just stick with it.

 

[Bleh]

Will that work ? It will increase the weight too much and the BMP might not be able to undertake amphibious operations. ARDE has already made munitions for 40mm gun which was meant for Abhay. I think they might just stick with it.

Their new one has much more internal volume (thus boyancy) than old BMP2, although it also as more armour, still I think it can float with it... Or else they would not have considered that 57mm.

I heard they might change the wheels to Abhay's and new ERA sideskirts. Also if they are adding that cannon, it will mean FICV to have either 2S38 or AU-220M unmanned turret.

Abhay's bofors 40mm is a chill gun but versatility is less.

 

[arkos]

Their new one has much more internal volume (thus boyancy) than old BMP2, although it also as more armour, still I think it can float with it... Or else they would not have considered that 57mm.
I heard they might change the wheels to Abhay's and new ERA sideskirts.
Abhay's bofors 40mm is a chill gun but versatility is less.

I don't think much space will be left available for other equipment if BMP-2 design is used. It just does not have enough space to fit all the extra armor and heavier rounds. I think 57mm gun will be an overkill as the job of destroying hardened position can also be done with a 40mm gun with appropriate rounds. Add an ATGM launcher and probably an RCWS, since similar requirements were made by army for the wheeled IFV, then I highly doubt that a design based on BMP will be able to match the required performance. If they change the transmission and the power pack then maybe its possible. But without it I doubt Army would be willing to accept it.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

US is moving towards a 50 mm gun in its OMFV and Russia is moving towards 57 mm on its variety of IFVs. Soon China will follow and then (by begging) Pakistan. Hence keeping futurisic scenario in mind, a higher caliber compared to present 30 & 40 mm is needed. Also next generation foreign IFVs will have frontal protection against 30 & 40mm AP rounds.

 

[Bleh]

It just does not have enough space to fit all the extra armor and heavier rounds....

...then I highly doubt that a design based on BMP will be able to match the required performance.

Bro, I literally drew the BMP-2 lines on it to compare the size expansion. This thing is much larger. Design difference is almost like between T-72M & T-90MS.
Armour is incresed by 2 STANAG levels on front and 1 beside as well as below. They changed the steel composition, suspension, transmission & powerpack. And that 57mm unmanned can fit on BMP-1/2/3.

Actually you should watch the video first. It's on this thread. Much of the specs & modifications are mentioned in it. No point thinking and doubting with incomplete information on it.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Instead of the bmp based chassis, OFB/DRDO should have gone for a modified Abhay based chassis. Addition side skirts and a new remote controlled turret can be installed on this chasis as well.

 

[Bleh]

Instead of the bmp based chassis, OFB/DRDO should have gone for a modified Abhay based chassis. Addition side skirts and a new remote controlled turret can be installed on this chasis as well.

View attachment 47420
View attachment 47421

There is a good chance that both the Abhay & initial Tata FICV prototypes were developed on the same base chasis as modified BMP2. They just had the different outer plates and track-wheel system, but the influence could be seen.

They Abhay2 is probably a design optimisation to fit the new composite armour that reduced weight by 40% (see old post) allowing size increase & added weight for mechanism tweaks.

I bet after the prototype testing stage, the final Abhay Mark2 will look a lot different than now. Abhay started like this.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Abhay was initially developed in early 2000s as a contemporary IFV by VRDE weighing 23-35 tons. It had excellent growth potential at that time, laid emphasis on mobility and air transportability and its specifications matched that of western IFVs like Bradley. However, our import happy army decided to reject it. Fast forward to 2020, the situations have changed. All the major IFVs which are entering service or being developed weighs 40+ tons like: T-15, Namer APC, Puma, Lynx, OMFV etc. The main emphasis now is better crew protection and bigger caliber rounds. Hence Abhay design is no longer contemporary. New projects like FICV from private sector and Abhay Mk2 and modified BMP from OFB should reflect contemporary designs around the world.

 

[Bleh]

Abhay was initially developed in early 2000s as a contemporary IFV by VRDE weighing 23-35 tons. It had excellent growth potential at that time, laid emphasis on mobility and air transportability...

...All the major IFVs which are entering service or being developed weighs 40+ tons like: T-15, Namer APC, Puma, Lynx, OMFV etc. The main emphasis now is better crew protection and bigger caliber rounds.

Man our Army's requirement now is still max 25ton & no-prep amphibious.

And IFV designs don't need to be revolutionary (like BMP-T) unless of complete different class. If they choose to go for evolutionary development, making it N/ERA compatible or add unmanned turret and uprate its mobility performance, that'll be just enough. Comparison (BMP sources given, FICV based only promo video):

Upgraded BMP-2M Sarath:
1. Stanag protection.

• Front - 4 (.50cal to 14.5mm AP rounds)
• Sides/Rear - 3 (7.62×51mm steel-core bullets, 155mm upto 60m)
• Belly - 1 (grenades, anti-personnel mine)

2. Speed

• Road - 65 km/hr
• Water - 7 km/hr

Prototype Abhay Mark2:
1. Stanag protection

• Front - 5 (23mm) or 6 (30mm,)
• Sides - 4 (upto 14.5mm steel-core AP, 155mm blast at 30m)
• Rear/Belly - 3b (small IED)

2. Speed

• Road - 80 km/hr (plus new suspension & transmission)
• Water - 10 km/hr

 

[Bajirao]

Army dosen't know their own requirement.they are finding everything here and there.......indian army wants both 25 ton class and 40-50 ton class ifv

 

[Bleh]

40-50 ton class ifv

Indian Army never raised a requirements of any 30ton+ APC/IFV.
We could have modified our old T-55 or T-72 chasis to 40-45 ton heavy troop carrier or even rocket platforms, like Russian BMP-T or Israeli Namer (the APC but with unmanned turret), if they were interested.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Army generally likes to follow Russian arms doctrine. Russians are moving towards unmanned turret based tank (T=14) and heavy IFV (T-15).Now let us discuss a few possible scenarion for the next decade.
A few years down the line, in a Chinese PLA parade, they unveil Type XX MBT and Type YY IFV which are Chinese clones of T-14 and T-15. After that in next 3-4 they could end up in paki army as VT-XX and VT-ZZ (export version). Now how does our army reacts. Till now it was dilly-dallying Abhay IFV, FICV by not issuing proper PSQR, changing from make-1 to make-2 category and other delaying tactics. But as soon as VT-XX end up in paki arsenal, army will make a case for emergency procurement of T-14 and T-15 from the Russian via G-G route, citing national security concerns.
Hence from the perspective of Private players pursuing FICV and DRDO/OFB it is better to be safe than sorry, and come up with analogoues products.

 

[Bleh]

Army generally likes to follow Russian arms doctrine. Russians are moving towards unmanned turret based tank (T=14) and heavy IFV (T-15).Now let us discuss a few possible scenarion for the next decade.

Sorry but not really.

Indian defence forces rather follow (and this is one of thing I really like about them) a colourful combo of Western and Eastern war doctrines, nitpicked and modified to fit our needs... What their model of mechanised warfare in this subcontinent requires, is fully amphibious ICVs 25ton max, with fast tanks 50ton max. To them STANAG Level6 frontal protection against auto-cannonsis enough.
T-15 is a fucking 48ton monster! And irrespective what other people are following, also irrespective of what we think Indian armour should follow, Army themselves have never shown any interested in such FICV design.

And they may actually be right... Slapping modular armor won't make the cut as we are entering the era of top attack ATGMs & Loitering Munitions which can recognise enemy tank to go around hitting from the rear. My detailed post on this at FMBT page. Anti-tank thermobaric warhead can heat up the whole thing to cook troops/crew alive inside, no matter how well armoured.

Our best bet is full effort on APS, MCS, EW etc. like attack-helos.

 

[Maniac@666]

View attachment 47247


Mahindra FICV concept

Looks like Mahindra's FICV is based upon BAE Systems Hägglunds Sweden's SEP program which was cancelled because it couldn't find a international patner to collaborate on the project nor it did have enough economic strength to go ahead all alone.

 

[Maniac@666]

Look at the side armour just like Scout SV of UK.

 

[Bajirao]

Drdo working on ficv hull