F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

asianobserve

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After day 1, if you are the winner, no need of 12 AMRAAM per plane!
And, between you and me, how many AA missiles have been fired in a war situation since Vietnam ? 2? 3? never 12 or +/- 20 like the F15X. once again, marketing only.

Most A2A kills in Vietnam and post-Vietnam were done by A2A missiles. Of Vietnam war era A2A missile were not bery accurste and temperemental and yet still killed more enemy planes in A2A combat than cannons.

We're way past gunfights in A2A.
 

asianobserve

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F-35 IMHO is BS for Air-to-Air combat but excellent for Ground Attack and Maritime Strike.

The closest any air force can have to a real A2A combat is Red Flad which is complete with A2A, EWs, AD, etc. Adversaries. And here F-35s record is unassailable, 20:1. More often F-35 pilots and novices against veteran aggressor pilots.

The record in Red Flag is so lopsided in favor of F-35 and F-22 that USAF is standing up an F-35 aggressor unit.
 

BON PLAN

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F-35 IMHO is BS for Air-to-Air combat but excellent for Ground Attack and Maritime Strike.
Globally yes. But the F35 weapon system, even in air to ground (not to speak in air to air), is not mature.

Just to remember : the standard 3F was studied to be the last for FOC (F for final). No FOC on the horizon and a standard 4....
 

BON PLAN

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Most A2A kills in Vietnam and post-Vietnam were done by A2A missiles. Of Vietnam war era A2A missile were not bery accurste and temperemental and yet still killed more enemy planes in A2A combat than cannons.

We're way past gunfights in A2A.
I agree.
But what is the use of 12 AMRAAM on the same bird? (except if the pk of AMRAAM is too low.... maybe it is a clue)
 

StealthFlanker

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I have no source on it. But some french forumers, working for Thales, explained that some long years ago.
RBE2 PESA range = Mirage 2000-5 RDY range= 100km.
RBE2 AA range = 30% increase on PESA = 130km
RBE2 AESA = 80% to 100% increase on RDY = 180 to 200km.

The heavy difference of range between the RBE2 AA, fitted with US T/R and the same radar only modified with European T/R suggest that the US didn't deliver their 1st class component.... in dimension and in performance.

Just a clue : in 2008-2010 the UAE explained they want a more powerfull radar (than the RBE2 AA shown to them). At those time Thales was searching the way to increase from 9.6Kw to 13kw the power of this radar.
It is no more an option, as the 9.6Kw RBE2 AESA proves itself a range increase so as to satisfy this exigeant customer.
Just because someone say he worked for government or a weapon manufacturer on a forum doesn't mean he actually is. I have meet more than a hundred of self proclaimed expert who then later turn out to be nothing more than a fraud.
Firstly, RDY-3 is a mechanical slotted array radar, there is no way that it can have comparable range to a PESA of similar aperture size like RBE-2 PESA. The gap in detection range between a PESA and a slotted radar is much greater than between an AESA and PESA.
Secondly, RBE-2AA is RBE-2 AESA, that basically what the AA stand for
Nevertheless, the image used to estimate Rafale T/R module is still being used by Thales to advertise the newest version of RBE-2AA, there doesn't seem to have any visual change whatsoever so it seem highly unlikely that they really increase the number of T/R modules count
The most likely is basically just that guy lied about who he is
 

StealthFlanker

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Random Q, I have heard F35 can't have missiles and all on the wing pylons because it compromises stealth effect, so it can only carry 4 missiles in side it, like 2 in body and one each in the wings, these are internal, not external and their bay doors only open when the missile needs to be shot.

So what is the point of Stealth jets being the "future" and US is switching most of its fleet over to stealth jets eventually if the weapon carrying capacity is reduced so much?

I am not knowledgeable in this field so asking.
With side kick then F-35 can carry 6 long range air to air missiles internally, if both internal and external hard point are used then F-35 will be able to carry 14 long range air to air missile and 2 short range AAM.
Alternatively. With miniature missile such as Cuda/SACM/Peregrine then F-35 can have 12 medium range air to air missile internally
EEmGx9WWsAA3Q8r.jpg

F-35 IMHO is BS for Air-to-Air combat but excellent for Ground Attack and Maritime Strike.
With its stealth characteristic F-35 will be an insanely scary foe in air combat, especially when it is equipped with missile like Meteor and JNAAM
 

panzerfeist1

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There was a YT interview with Billie Flynn saying he can see a target 200 miles away and most 4th gen fighters are referenced as 1m2 targets along with Raytheon using the 1m2 as a reference point for the F-22. Is there any radar upgrade plans for the F-35s? Or the F/A-xx is more of a priority?
 

StealthFlanker

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There was a YT interview with Billie Flynn saying he can see a target 200 miles away and most 4th gen fighters are referenced as 1m2 targets along with Raytheon using the 1m2 as a reference point for the F-22. Is there any radar upgrade plans for the F-35s? Or the F/A-xx is more of a priority?
F/A-XX is far far from production, it wont be here anytime soon
 

BON PLAN

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Firstly, RDY-3 is a mechanical slotted array radar, there is no way that it can have comparable range to a PESA of similar aperture size like RBE-2 PESA. The gap in detection range between a PESA and a slotted radar is much greater than between an AESA and PESA.
Secondly, RBE-2AA is RBE-2 AESA, that basically what the AA stand for
Nevertheless, the image used to estimate Rafale T/R module is still being used by Thales to advertise the newest version of RBE-2AA, there doesn't seem to have any visual change whatsoever so it seem highly unlikely that they really increase the number of T/R modules count
Firstly french M2000-5 are not fitted with RDY-3 but the legacy RDY. And I'm sorry to say that the PESA RBE2
used a classical TOP emitter but has to cope with the signal reduction coming from the phase shifter. So it's not unusual a same diameter class PESA radar to have the same or a slightly shorter range than a mecanical one.

Secondly RBE2 AA is the prototyp. Only made with US T/R modules. It is an AESA radar, but the expression RBE2 AESA is for another radar, fully equipped with european T/R modules.
So the two are AESA radar, but one is a prototyp with no future, the other is serially produced.
 

BON PLAN

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Nevertheless, the image used to estimate Rafale T/R module is still being used by Thales to advertise the newest version of RBE-2AA, there doesn't seem to have any visual change whatsoever so it seem highly unlikely that they really increase the number of T/R modules count
It's done knowingly (the old pic).
 

Immanuel

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it's not the case of Rafale, EF, Gripen, SH18.
1m2 figure was mainly for M2000, F16, F18.
With external weapons, drops tanks etc. even the F-18SH, Rafale, EF, Gripen would have a just about 1m2, it's inevitable.
 

panzerfeist1

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The numbers of F22 in USAF is already short. With an assembly line closed I don't see USAF and US congress agree for such a sale.
F-22 enlarged.png
F-22A.png


Its not just Israel but Japan as well wanted a F-22 design aircraft. I just hope more countries start demanding it to increase the need of wanting to restart the production line. I find it fucking sad that some of them could have not been recovered by the hurricane incident from two years ago
 

asianobserve

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I agree.
But what is the use of 12 AMRAAM on the same bird? (except if the pk of AMRAAM is too low.... maybe it is a clue)

AMRAAM is still very lethal especially its latest variant. That said, while USAF has by far the most frontline fighters the reality however is that USAF has so many potential theaters of operations that would divide up its fighters, plus factor in maintenance time. So they compensate that by creating smaller A2A missiles and more weapons ststions so that more can fit in a single fighter thereby allowing a single USAF fighter to take on several enemy fighters.

The other parts of this strategy are LO by shaping or coating, EW, sensors to allow USAF fighters to stay out of enemy fighters' kill zones, networking, decoys, etc.
 
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asianobserve

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View attachment 67280View attachment 67281

Its not just Israel but Japan as well wanted a F-22 design aircraft. I just hope more countries start demanding it to increase the need of wanting to restart the production line. I find it fucking sad that some of them could have not been recovered by the hurricane incident from two years ago

F-22 is not going to be resurrected. What will find into late 5th gen fighters (Japan) and 6th gen fighters (US, UK, EU) are F-35 sensors.
 

BON PLAN

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F-22 is not going to be resurrected. What will find into late 5th gen fighters (Japan) and 6th gen fighters (US, UK, EU) are F-35 sensors.
Nothing special in the F35 sensors :
AESA, well known.
advanced IRST, but not so advance because can't follow a moving target.
Communiction nod, well known.
 

asianobserve

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Nothing special in the F35 sensors :
AESA, well known.
advanced IRST, but not so advance because can't follow a moving target.
Communiction nod, well known.
‘A God’s Eye View Of The Battlefield:’
 

BON PLAN

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‘A God’s Eye View Of The Battlefield:’
Nothing new.
Except the great ability of LM to make good marketing from old plates.
 

Manticore

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An analogy would be:

F-35


Bon Plan:Nothing Special. Tech well known in Rafale.


Rafale

 

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