F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

airtel

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So it seems the F-22 will probably make a come back. 😂 Trump Admin on a role. We should consider buying 36-54 too. This changes the game.




f22 is not under production so usa can not export it it .
 

Rassil Krishnan

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is stealth the only main difference between 4th and 5th generation fighter.

because if it is i think the f35 is very less bang for the buck even though it might be marginally better than the previous fighters.

cant 4th generation and 4++ generation fighter also carry longer range missiles and be retrofitted with better radars.why buy a f35 with its compromises due to stealth (other than us support) than choose 4th generation style aircraft which can lob all the latest missiles and carry the latest engines and radars and other gizmos such as sensor fusion,etc.

i think true 5th generation will come when aircraft are equipped with laser for offence and defence,coupled with option for remote flying,etc instead of only being different in that they are stealthy as it seems very gimmicky rather than a solid line to differentiate.

can anyone clarify?
 

Manticore

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How to sell F35 .....

 

StealthFlanker

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is stealth the only main difference between 4th and 5th generation fighter.
It is not the only thing, but the most easy to distinguish, besides, stealth doesn't just reduce the detection range, it also has the by product of making ECM considerably more effective. Both are extremely vital to aircraft survivability, it doesn't matter if you can put the very best missiles on your aircraft if you never have the chance to launch them




Another note that stealth aircraft doesn't just reduce their signature to radar but also IR sensor:




 

StealthFlanker

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because if it is i think the f35 is very less bang for the buck even though it might be marginally better than the previous fighters.
cant 4th generation and 4++ generation fighter also carry longer range missiles and be retrofitted with better radars.why buy a f35 with its compromises due to stealth (other than us support) than choose 4th generation style aircraft which can lob all the latest missiles and carry the latest engines and radars and other gizmos such as sensor fusion,etc.
With the exception of F-15EX with it enormous radar aperture, the other 4th and 4+++th generation aircraft doesn't really have better radar than F-35. APG-81 has more T/R modules than most 4th and 4++th gen aircraft radar, which not only mean the transmitting power out put is higher, but the radar gain/directivity is also much better



One thing that often get overlooked is the electrical generation and cooling capacity of an aircraft, both have huge performance impact on their radar and electrical warfare system especially regarding to power output. The electrical power generating capacity of F-35 can be about 4 times higher than a 4++ generation aircraft
F-35 electricity generation.PNG


And as said earlier, cooling capacity is also very important for Radar, ECM and ESM equipment (imagine running a gamming computer while taking out the cooling fan), F-35 doesn't just rely on ambient air cooling from air vents and scopes, it also has an integrated cooling system using the engine bypass air. Which mean the cooling rate can be much better due to the much greater quantity of air sucked in by the engine fan compared to a simple air scope on other aircraft.



Regarding missiles, F-35 can carry JSM internally, this is a stealth missile with 550 km max engagement range and AARGM-ER with speed of Mach 4 and 300 km max engagement range. Which should be more than enough given its stealth characteristic
JSM_zpsf5eb16e1.png


i think true 5th generation will come when aircraft are equipped with laser for offence and defence,coupled with option for remote flying,etc instead of only being different in that they are stealthy as it seems very gimmicky rather than a solid line to differentiate.
can anyone clarify?
LM is developing laser weapon to be used on F-35 anyway
F-35 laser weapon.PNG
 

BON PLAN

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It is not the only thing, but the most easy to distinguish, besides, stealth doesn't just reduce the detection range, it also has the by product of making ECM considerably more effective. Both are extremely vital to aircraft survivability, it doesn't matter if you can put the very best missiles on your aircraft if you never have the chance to launch them




Another note that stealth aircraft doesn't just reduce their signature to radar but also IR sensor:




It is very strange to see how USAF rely on stealth and US navy don't.
US navy prefer SH18 to F35. US navy continue to order non specialy stealthy destroyer.
Stealth is a hyped quality.
 

BON PLAN

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Always the same BS by the same noob.
There is no official pic of the on production RBE2 AESA
There are only pics of the prototype, made with old US T/R modules. So your 838 is probably true, but on a old prototyp.
 

StealthFlanker

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It is very strange to see how USAF rely on stealth and US navy don't.
US navy prefer SH18 to F35. US navy continue to order non specialy stealthy destroyer.
Stealth is a hyped quality.
If they don't like stealth then they wouldn't have purchase the F-35C, the fact is that they did. The only reason why they still purchase F-18SH is because the production line of F-35 can't ensure the total quantity of fighter that they need.
A submarine is basically a stealth ship and I see them purchase plenty of them.DDG-1000 isn't very popular mainly due to the huge cost involved
If stealth is an over hyped quantity then no one would be purchasing stealth aircraft, but the fact is everyone either buying or trying to make their own stealth aircraft now a day. Even France now developing their own stealth fighter
 

StealthFlanker

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Always the same BS by the same noob.
There is no official pic of the on production RBE2 AESA
There are only pics of the prototype, made with old US T/R modules. So your 838 is probably true, but on a old prototyp.
The thing is the quantity of T/R modules is dictated by the aperture area because there is a minimum separation distance between each individual modules to avoid grating lobes, so you can't just add more and more T/R modules on a radar antenna. Just because the photo shows a prototype doesn't mean the production version will necessary have more T/R modules, let alone get anywhere even remotely close to the T/R modules quantity of APG-81 given that Rafale nose is much smaller
 

BON PLAN

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If they don't like stealth then they wouldn't have purchase the F-35C, the fact is that they did. The only reason why they still purchase F-18SH is because the production line of F-35 can't ensure the total quantity of fighter that they need.
A submarine is basically a stealth ship and I see them purchase plenty of them.DDG-1000 isn't very popular mainly due to the huge cost involved
If stealth is an over hyped quantity then no one would be purchasing stealth aircraft, but the fact is everyone either buying or trying to make their own stealth aircraft now a day. Even France now developing their own stealth fighter
USN was forced to purchase the F35C.
DDG1000 : 3 units. Arleigh Burke class > 100 units.
All submarines, including the North Korean one are stealthy in your case.
 

BON PLAN

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The thing is the quantity of T/R modules is dictated by the aperture area because there is a minimum separation distance between each individual modules to avoid grating lobes, so you can't just add more and more T/R modules on a radar antenna. Just because the photo shows a prototype doesn't mean the production version will necessary have more T/R modules, let alone get anywhere even remotely close to the T/R modules quantity of APG-81 given that Rafale nose is much smaller
The European T/R modules are smaller than the old US ones selled by uncle Sam to France for prototyp.
And th european one are also more efficient.
The RBE2 AA (prototyp) offered a 30% increased range over PESA.
The serialy produce RBE2 AESA offer a 70 to 100% increase in range. With the same nose cone.
 

StealthFlanker

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USN was forced to purchase the F35C.
DDG1000 : 3 units. Arleigh Burke class > 100 units.
All submarines, including the North Korean one are stealthy in your case.
There is no evidence whatsoever that USN is forced to buy F-35C , if we are going to make baseless assumption then by the same standard, I can easily claim France Navy was forced to buy Rafale. DDG-1000 cost 4.25 billions/unit, DDG-51 cost 1.8 billions/unit, DDG-51 was first built on 1988, DDG-1000 first comission on 2016. That a 28 years gap so obviously there are more DDG-51 based on the simple fact that it is significantly cheaper and was built much earlier.
and yes, all submarine are stealthy, even the North Korean one, that doesn't mean they are all equally stealthy though
The European T/R modules are smaller than the old US ones selled by uncle Sam to France for prototyp.
And th european one are also more efficient.
I have yet to see any evidence that theEuropean made T/R module is smaller than the US made one
Beside the limiting of maximum T/R count is the wavelength used.
The RBE2 AA (prototyp) offered a 30% increased range over PESA.
The serialy produce RBE2 AESA offer a 70 to 100% increase in range. With the same nose cone.
Source?
 

BON PLAN

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I can easily claim France Navy was forced to buy Rafale.
It was the case. The french navy was very reluctant to see a delta plane on a carrier (*). They prefered the mature FA18 instead. They were forced to take the Rafale, and now they are absolutely happy with it !

(*) They imagined a delta plane as the Mirage III, with high landing speed. Rafale with canards, moderate angled delta and FBW proved to be a nice solution.
 

BON PLAN

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I have yet to see any evidence that theEuropean made T/R module is smaller than the US made one
Beside the limiting of maximum T/R count is the wavelength used.
I have no source on it. But some french forumers, working for Thales, explained that some long years ago.
RBE2 PESA range = Mirage 2000-5 RDY range= 100km.
RBE2 AA range = 30% increase on PESA = 130km
RBE2 AESA = 80% to 100% increase on RDY = 180 to 200km.

The heavy difference of range between the RBE2 AA, fitted with US T/R and the same radar only modified with European T/R suggest that the US didn't deliver their 1st class component.... in dimension and in performance.

Just a clue : in 2008-2010 the UAE explained they want a more powerfull radar (than the RBE2 AA shown to them). At those time Thales was searching the way to increase from 9.6Kw to 13kw the power of this radar.
It is no more an option, as the 9.6Kw RBE2 AESA proves itself a range increase so as to satisfy this exigeant customer.
 
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shade

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Random Q, I have heard F35 can't have missiles and all on the wing pylons because it compromises stealth effect, so it can only carry 4 missiles in side it, like 2 in body and one each in the wings, these are internal, not external and their bay doors only open when the missile needs to be shot.

So what is the point of Stealth jets being the "future" and US is switching most of its fleet over to stealth jets eventually if the weapon carrying capacity is reduced so much?

I am not knowledgeable in this field so asking.
 

asianobserve

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Random Q, I have heard F35 can't have missiles and all on the wing pylons because it compromises stealth effect, so it can only carry 4 missiles in side it, like 2 in body and one each in the wings, these are internal, not external and their bay doors only open when the missile needs to be shot.

So what is the point of Stealth jets being the "future" and US is switching most of its fleet over to stealth jets eventually if the weapon carrying capacity is reduced so much?

I am not knowledgeable in this field so asking.
An F-35:with Sidekick rail can carry 6 AMRAAMS internally. So the usual group of 4 F-35s can carry 24 AMRAAMS internally.
images (2).jpeg

images (1).jpeg


But internal carraige is only for day 1 ops or while enemy AD susyems are still active. Once enemy ADs are neutralized F-35s can be fully loaded internally and exrernally.
images.jpeg

12 AMRAAMS + 2 AIM9Xs. With with Sidekick rails an F-35 can potentially carry 14 AMRAAMS + 2 AIM9Xs. That's very substantisl weapons load.
 

BON PLAN

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An F-35:with Sidekick rail can carry 6 AMRAAMS internally. So the usual group of 4 F-35s can carry 24 AMRAAMS internally.
View attachment 67043
View attachment 67044

But internal carraige is only for day 1 ops or while enemy AD susyems are still active. Once enemy ADs are neutralized F-35s can be fully loaded internally and exrernally.
View attachment 67045
12 AMRAAMS + 2 AIM9Xs. With with Sidekick rails an F-35 can potentially carry 14 AMRAAMS + 2 AIM9Xs. That's very substantisl weapons load.
After day 1, if you are the winner, no need of 12 AMRAAM per plane!
And, between you and me, how many AA missiles have been fired in a war situation since Vietnam ? 2? 3? never 12 or +/- 20 like the F15X. once again, marketing only.
 

FalconSlayers

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If they don't like stealth then they wouldn't have purchase the F-35C, the fact is that they did. The only reason why they still purchase F-18SH is because the production line of F-35 can't ensure the total quantity of fighter that they need.
A submarine is basically a stealth ship and I see them purchase plenty of them.DDG-1000 isn't very popular mainly due to the huge cost involved
If stealth is an over hyped quantity then no one would be purchasing stealth aircraft, but the fact is everyone either buying or trying to make their own stealth aircraft now a day. Even France now developing their own stealth fighter
F-35 IMHO is BS for Air-to-Air combat but excellent for Ground Attack and Maritime Strike.
 

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