F-18 Advanced Super Hornet

Rajaraja Chola

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I'm not a Rafale fan, but even I know it's a good enough fit for India capabilities wise and if the naval varient can work off Indian carriers they should go for it. They have no more time to delay.
Rafale doesn not have folded wings. And both the fighters are nearly tight in the lifts. SH has the advantage. Issue is strategically none of the Ac can be modified as per wishes by India.
 

omaebakabaka

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none of the Ac can be modified as per wishes by India.
Yeah, mig-29k or F-35 are the only choices and F-35 can be eliminated for obvious reasons.....defaults to mig-29k I guess unless India can negotiate the mig-35 improvements into mig-29k and buy them in numbers to fill the gaps for both navy and airforce simplifying the fleet and logistics? Irbis-E is a decent radar and N036 would be even better at the same rating but we mess around too much trying to integrate bunch of stuff from other countries and make it a mess.....wonder if pure all Russian equipment would actually be more reliable? On the other side, China may be too familiar with Russian stuff and corresponding tactics, so India has no choice than to get other subsystems from various countries or in house? Migs are fine jets....
 

Rajaraja Chola

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Yeah, mig-29k or F-35 are the only choices and F-35 can be eliminated for obvious reasons.....defaults to mig-29k I guess unless India can negotiate the mig-35 improvements into mig-29k and buy them in numbers to fill the gaps for both navy and airforce simplifying the fleet and logistics? Irbis-E is a decent radar and N036 would be even better at the same rating but we mess around too much trying to integrate bunch of stuff from other countries and make it a mess.....wonder if pure all Russian equipment would actually be more reliable? On the other side, China may be too familiar with Russian stuff and corresponding tactics, so India has no choice than to get other subsystems from various countries or in house? Migs are fine jets....
What Ada can even do is take one mig29K and develop the whole avionics suite themselves. All avionics related issues can be solved by Indian industries with help from Israel.
The problem is IN is not happy with the range and payload of the Migs. I believe they are fine jets aerodynamically. But expectations of IN wrt Migs have stobar carriers isnt fair.
 

omaebakabaka

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What Ada can even do is take one mig29K and develop the whole avionics suite themselves. All avionics related issues can be solved by Indian industries with help from Israel.
The problem is IN is not happy with the range and payload of the Migs. I believe they are fine jets aerodynamically. But expectations of IN wrt Migs have stobar carriers isnt fair.
At some point India should do it on its own or else Israel will be new Russia in terms of dependency and that is worse than Russia. Anyway, roughly 400 nm range should be good enough to defend Indian interests for now in areas we typically operate which is mostly Indian Ocean and to protect our other ships from air attack. Arm them with long range weapons and powerful radar and possibly modification for Bramhos-NG (wonder if its possible). Are our K's capable of aerial refueling? It is increasingly becoming difficult to enter airspace with AD systems now without taking a big risk anyway....
 

vayuu1

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But I have seen lots of country opting for typhoon, what's the advantage and disadvantage of both Rafale and ef comparison wise
 

vayuu1

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One I can think of is multiple countries involved in Ef ,but apart from that
 

Flying Dagger

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Its maintenance issues are the real reason airframe life isn't great either. By 2030 IN wish to retire them though highly unlikely now with the budget constraint.

Even if they do retire them IAF can definitely use them.

Apparently Naval Mig 29k are used from Ladakh airbase now. IAF should go forward and offer to buy all of these 45 jets +21 they are getting to form 3-4 squadrons and free up funds for IN to buy Hornet or Rafale.

What Ada can even do is take one mig29K and develop the whole avionics suite themselves. All avionics related issues can be solved by Indian industries with help from Israel.
The problem is IN is not happy with the range and payload of the Migs. I believe they are fine jets aerodynamically. But expectations of IN wrt Migs have stobar carriers isnt fair.
 

omaebakabaka

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In every way possible in comparison to Typhoon it is better.
Hmm no....India should stay away from consortium based makes and stick with French, Indian and Russian makes when it comes to fighters and interceptors. Can you imagine the logistics to do maintenance w.r.t human, skill and materials not to mention costs and upgrades? They should do the same in transport fleet, just stick with US and Russian make in fixed wing and Russian, Indian in rotary wing and optimize the costs and maintenance.
 

Rajaraja Chola

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Its maintenance issues are the real reason airframe life isn't great either. By 2030 IN wish to retire them though highly unlikely now with the budget constraint.

Even if they do retire them IAF can definitely use them.

Apparently Naval Mig 29k are used from Ladakh airbase now. IAF should go forward and offer to buy all of these 45 jets +21 they are getting to form 3-4 squadrons and free up funds for IN to buy Hornet or Rafale.
Well apparently mods have to be done. Naval fighters are heavier than land based ones and subsequently less payload.
I don't think tedbf is coming by 2034 to free up all available mig29K at that point. With budget constraints I am seriously concerned bout the ability of GoI to fund 3 dev programmes +1 Ghatak at the same time. So there is not going to be any transfer of assets to IAF.
 

Lancer

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Its maintenance issues are the real reason airframe life isn't great either. By 2030 IN wish to retire them though highly unlikely now with the budget constraint.

Even if they do retire them IAF can definitely use them.

Apparently Naval Mig 29k are used from Ladakh airbase now. IAF should go forward and offer to buy all of these 45 jets +21 they are getting to form 3-4 squadrons and free up funds for IN to buy Hornet or Rafale.
At a time when we're fighting tooth and nail to increase squadron numbers it would be foolish and wasteful to get rid of the MiG's - even with their alleged engine/maintenance issues.

If the Navy doesn't want them for carriers - they should either be transferred to coastal airbases or the Andaman/Nicobar Command, which we are working to beef up for future conflicts with China.
 

Flying Dagger

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At a time when we're fighting tooth and nail to increase squadron numbers it would be foolish and wasteful to get rid of the MiG's - even with their alleged engine/maintenance issues.

If the Navy doesn't want them for carriers - they should either be transferred to coastal airbases or the Andaman/Nicobar Command, which we are working to beef up for future conflicts with China.
Instead of coastal air bases Airforce will benefit more specifically in the air bases situated in mountain region like laddakh which have short strip for land and takeoff.

Navy should instead go for more Jags in maritime patrol role with higher thrust engines. They are pretty reliable birds in the role and will sort out the logistic nightmare for both airforce and navy.

For carrier operation either hornet and Rafale will make up the initial number. Later AMCA and tedbf can replace both types.
 

omaebakabaka

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Instead of coastal air bases Airforce will benefit more specifically in the air bases situated in mountain region like laddakh which have short strip for land and takeoff.

Navy should instead go for more Jags in maritime patrol role with higher thrust engines. They are pretty reliable birds in the role and will sort out the logistic nightmare for both airforce and navy.

For carrier operation either hornet and Rafale will make up the initial number. Later AMCA and tedbf can replace both types.
India may not do that because operationally there is no need to put airplanes in Ladakh, just too close unless there is an offensive mindset. At that altitude, performance of planes will be even less compared to lower altitude take off.....in other words it will not give us that much benefit. Advantage we have over China is that our planes can take off with full load while Chinese ones have to take off from high altitude which impacts take off loads.
 

Flying Dagger

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Well apparently mods have to be done. Naval fighters are heavier than land based ones and subsequently less payload.
I don't think tedbf is coming by 2034 to free up all available mig29K at that point. With budget constraints I am seriously concerned bout the ability of GoI to fund 3 dev programmes +1 Ghatak at the same time. So there is not going to be any transfer of assets to IAF.
The second carrier need aircrafts ... If they go for Rafale then you are right there will not be much fund left. But if it is hornet they may replace mig 29 k too.

Tedbf if funded can match the MWF timeline as engine avionics radar cockpit etc are already finalised. So in both cases mig 29 k can be released .

In any case delay of 4-5 years is common specially being Indian we shouldn't worry abt that.
 

Flying Dagger

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India may not do that because operationally there is no need to put airplanes in Ladakh, just too close unless there is an offensive mindset. At that altitude, performance of planes will be even less compared to lower altitude take off.....in other words it will not give us that much benefit. Advantage we have over China is that our planes can take off with full load while Chinese ones have to take off from high altitude which impacts take off loads.
You will need them for interception and 20 are already there anyway.

Offensive or defensive is all a words play. Even if we launch a Nuke at China I consider it defensive mindset since china is already an aggressor and have occupied my/ours land.
 

omaebakabaka

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You will need them for interception and 20 are already there anyway.

Offensive or defensive is all a words play. Even if we launch a Nuke at China I consider it defensive mindset since china is already an aggressor and have occupied my/ours land.
They are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to air war in that area with us, certainly we should be on level 1 alert and India can react to an attack like that in many sectors across the border from ladakh to Arunachal. It is possible I guess, where did the migs got deployed?
 

Flying Dagger

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They are at a huge disadvantage when it comes to air war in that area with us, certainly we should be on level 1 alert and India can react to an attack like that in many sectors across the border from ladakh to Arunachal. It is possible I guess, where did the migs got deployed?

In Ladakh.

 

Inbredstank2a

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Rafael will be purchased as IAF knows how well the Mirage 2000 has performed. It will cheaper to buy as the economics support it. May be the F18 is on the table due to Growler package but i doubt US will give it. Euro fighter is a pure air dominant fighter and it is made by a consortium b/w various EU members which is risky from long term perspective. MBDA Meteor very capable missile. Mig 29k only if Navy has huge cash crunch because again reliability problems(Engine).
 

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