F-18 Advanced Super Hornet

[Tactical Frog]

What is this crap anyways?

Read that

Paris/ Munich, 12 February 2020 – The governments of France and Germany have awarded Dassault Aviation, Airbus, together with their partners MTU Aero Engines, Safran, MBDA and Thales, the initial framework contract (Phase 1A), which launches the demonstrator phase for the Future Combat Air System (FCAS).

This framework contract covers a first period of 18 months and initiates work on developing the demonstrators and maturing cutting-edge technologies, with the ambition to begin flight tests as soon as 2026.

Since early 2019, the industrial partners have been working on the future architecture as part of the programme’s so called Joint Concept Study. Now, the FCAS programme enters into another decisive phase with the launch of the demonstrator phase.

This phase will, in a first step, focus on the main technological challenges per domains:

Next Generation Fighter (NGF), with Dassault Aviation as prime contractor and Airbus as main partner, to be the core element of Future Combat Air System,
Unmanned systems Remote Carrier (RC) with Airbus as prime contractor and MBDA as main partner,
Combat Cloud (CC) with Airbus as prime contractor and Thales as main partner,
Engine with Safran and MTU as main partner.
A Simulation Environment will be jointly developed between the involved companies to ensure the consistency between demonstrators.

 

[BON PLAN]

I meant the USN doesn't give two shits about the Rafale, if it had two fucks to give, it would give them out to the SH and F-35. Rafale is already proving itself to be a hanger queen. USN only uses workhorses.

LOL.
from the beginning Rafale beat all the USN products.
The Rafale vs F14 was a butcherry.
Rafale vs F18 : during the first training, in 1999, in no more than 3 virages Rafale won.
Rafale vs SH18 : between F18 and F14.

Hangar queen.... I think you speak about the F35, whose disponibility is so low.

 

[LurkerBaba]

@Immanuel lay off on the flamebaits. You can disagree without inflammatory posts

 

[Immanuel]

LOL.
from the beginning Rafale beat all the USN products.
The Rafale vs F14 was a butcherry.
Rafale vs F18 : during the first training, in 1999, in no more than 3 virages Rafale won.
Rafale vs SH18 : between F18 and F14.

Hangar queen.... I think you speak about the F35, whose disponibility is so low.

Do you have sources for this?
Also F-35C is still in testing.

 

[Immanuel]

Read that

Paris/ Munich, 12 February 2020 – The governments of France and Germany have awarded Dassault Aviation, Airbus, together with their partners MTU Aero Engines, Safran, MBDA and Thales, the initial framework contract (Phase 1A), which launches the demonstrator phase for the Future Combat Air System (FCAS).

This framework contract covers a first period of 18 months and initiates work on developing the demonstrators and maturing cutting-edge technologies, with the ambition to begin flight tests as soon as 2026.

Since early 2019, the industrial partners have been working on the future architecture as part of the programme’s so called Joint Concept Study. Now, the FCAS programme enters into another decisive phase with the launch of the demonstrator phase.

This phase will, in a first step, focus on the main technological challenges per domains:

Next Generation Fighter (NGF), with Dassault Aviation as prime contractor and Airbus as main partner, to be the core element of Future Combat Air System,
Unmanned systems Remote Carrier (RC) with Airbus as prime contractor and MBDA as main partner,
Combat Cloud (CC) with Airbus as prime contractor and Thales as main partner,
Engine with Safran and MTU as main partner.
A Simulation Environment will be jointly developed between the involved companies to ensure the consistency between demonstrators.

So a 5th gen program for 2035 i.e timelines of a 6th gen aircraft, slowly catching up I see. No different from our own AMCA. Let's see who get's there first. Hopefully there is still a EU beyond next year for all this to continue.

 

[BON PLAN]

Do you have sources for this?
Also F-35C is still in testing.

One french source, Air Fan N° 282 (it was not in 1999.... but later. Sorry)

with a resum in a french internet site : https://omnirole-rafale.com/performances/

In the middle of the news :

"Against F14 it was a butcherry. Rafale is incomparably more agile than the heavy Tomcat. From the beginning of the engagement we take the lead"

"Against legacy F18 the task is more complicated, but thanks to the FBW, the T/W ratio, the small wings charge, Rafale shows quickly its superiority".

And everybody knows that legacy F18 is more agile than SH18.

 

[Immanuel]

One french source, Air Fan N° 282 (it was not in 1999.... but later. Sorry)
View attachment 46045

with a resum in a french internet site : https://omnirole-rafale.com/performances/

In the middle of the news :

View attachment 46043



"Against F14 it was a butcherry. Rafale is incomparably more agile than the heavy Tomcat. From the beginning of the engagement we take the lead"

"Against legacy F18 the task is more complicated, but thanks to the FBW, the T/W ratio, the small wings charge, Rafale shows quickly its superiority".

And everybody knows that legacy F18 is more agile than SH18.

Well why or how does dogfighting prove anything? Till Meteor came along, in BVR and WVR, HMCS, AESA the F-18 SH in real battle has a bigger advantage. Heck Rafale didn't even have a proper WVR HMD or even AESA till recently.

 

[BON PLAN]

Well why or how does dogfighting prove anything? Till Meteor came along, in BVR and WVR, HMCS, AESA the F-18 SH in real battle has a bigger advantage. Heck Rafale didn't even have a proper WVR HMD or even AESA till recently.

you really have great bad faith.
- Qatar and Indian Rafale are fully HCMS equipped.
- AESA is operationnal on Rafale since 2013.

another bad argument ?

 

[Immanuel]

you really have great bad faith.
- Qatar and Indian Rafale are fully HCMS equipped.
- AESA is operationnal on Rafale since 2013.

another bad argument ?

Compare that to the SH Block 2 that has been AESA operational since 2005. Rafale didn't have a long range BVR or HMCS for a long time. A real battle between 4.5 gen fighters comes down to tactics and experience of the pilot. Rafale and SH would have the same opportunities to win or loose.

 

[asianobserve]

LOL.
from the beginning Rafale beat all the USN products.
The Rafale vs F14 was a butcherry.
Rafale vs F18 : during the first training, in 1999, in no more than 3 virages Rafale won.
Rafale vs SH18 : between F18 and F14.

Hangar queen.... I think you speak about the F35, whose disponibility is so low.

You wish!

No less than French Rafale pilots themselves admit that Hornets and SHs are better than Rafale.

 

[Snowcat]

You wish!

No less than French Rafale pilots themselves admit that Hornets and SHs are better than Rafale.

I would rather suggest you go and check out the hushkit website where they compare Super hornet with Rafale M.

 

[BON PLAN]

You wish!

No less than French Rafale pilots themselves admit that Hornets and SHs are better than Rafale.

Classical from a french bashing expert.

 

[BON PLAN]

Compare that to the SH Block 2 that has been AESA operational since 2005. Rafale didn't have a long range BVR or HMCS for a long time. A real battle between 4.5 gen fighters comes down to tactics and experience of the pilot. Rafale and SH would have the same opportunities to win or loose.

We are in 2020.
in 2005 AMRAAM was not the "D"model.... but C5 (or C6 with a new fuze), so marginally better than MICA.

 

[Immanuel]

We are in 2020.
in 2005 AMRAAM was not the "D"model.... but C5 (or C6 with a new fuze), so marginally better than MICA.

In 2005 Rafale didn't have an AESA, so silly points. In 2020 for now Rafale has a lead in BVR but again the SH Block 2 has plenty of counters for it.

 

[asianobserve]

First F/A-18 SH Block 3

 

[BON PLAN]

You wish!

No less than French Rafale pilots themselves admit that Hornets and SHs are better than Rafale.

You're wrong.
Ask swiss tests pilots.....

 

[Immanuel]

You're wrong.
Ask swiss tests pilots.....

Do you have any evidence to prove this? The SH Block 3 is a easy winner for the Swiss. Not only will it be cheaper, it's a natural progression over the F-18. It is also cheaper and there is a already a great relation and logistics network for decades.

 

[Manticore]

You're wrong.
Ask swiss tests pilots.....

Ahem
"“Honestly the issue is comparing aircraft all the time. Life isn’t that easy. Combat is unfair. It’s never going to be fair. It isn’t designed to be fair. If you get into fair close combat you’re a bad pilot. Don’t put yourself in a fair fight in real life as that’s stupid. Manoeuvre — take advantage and surprise your enemy. It’s not about one individual defeating an enemy, you’re here to get results. We are result-driven personnel. It’s not all about me. You’ve got thousands of people building a Rafale, and building and maintaining carrier. There’s thousands of people making sure I can take-off -— if I want to go fair-against-fair, I’m stupid. What I want to is make sure I win. Why do I say that? If I’m going to fight against a Super Hornet, I’m going to find a tricky way to defeat him. Look at the Messerschmitt 262 back in World War Two, most of them got shot down on landing. An aircraft shot down still makes the count. If we have to face the US Navy, it’s going to be disproportionate in terms of numbers – it’s going bring entire tactics to another level. Now, you want me to do a fair 1-v-1 fight with a Hornet in close combat, actually I’d rather a Super Hornet; I find the C to be more manoeuvrable than the Super Hornet. As a Rafale we can take an advantage on a Hornet again. What I would be careful of is their AIM-9X and helmet visors. So I would be very careful about that.”

 

[BON PLAN]

Do you have any evidence to prove this? The SH Block 3 is a easy winner for the Swiss. Not only will it be cheaper, it's a natural progression over the F-18. It is also cheaper and there is a already a great relation and logistics network for decades.

SH was seen as slow moving and less agile than legacy F18.
The agility and climb rate will be big issues in the Swiss contest, because there's a lot of montains, and few time to react.
But you're right, logistically speaking SH is the natural choice after F18. Cheaper? marginally. Specially if disponibility is in the balance.
The choice will be between SH and Rafale I think. EF is out since 2011, F35 is useless in the Swiss context. Not to speak of the agility, climb rate and speed limitations of F35. A communication node (F35) is of no interest in such a country.

 

[BON PLAN]

First F/A-18 SH Block 3

FOC expected when ?