F-16 Viper

[mist_consecutive]

I feel the Rafale will be a future dependable of the IAF as it offers us everything in below fifth generation aircraft category in terms of aircraft characteristics and weapon characteristics.the only issue is that it is imported.it also has possibility of being further upgraded.

It will be our future mirage 2000 equivalent hopefully.

F16 on the other hand is just america being america and offering a very outdated platform at current time when we need future proofing and also not any impressive weapon suites for our needs.it brings nothing extra to the table for an imported maal.if you are going to induct foreign aircraft in the current spirit of atmanirbhar bharat it should atleast have some special tricks that only it can do.

If it had any chance of getting inducted america should have tried in the 1980s but then america would not have tried selling it due to relationship status.

If we are going to add another aircraft type now it only makes sense to add more rafales and then increase orders for lca.

F-16 is in no sense outdated, in fact, recent versions (Blk 70+) offer formidable capabilities and EW packages. What's excellent about F-16 I like is its low operational cost and high availability.

That being said, it still doesn't beat Rafale/EF2000 in capabilities. We could have gone for F-16s in the medium weight category if we were not having LCA Mk-2 / MWF, but it makes no sense now, plus two-faced America and their arm-twisting tactics are what stopping IAF/IN to buy any frontline equipment for the offensive.

And fun thing is, we won't be facing any real 5 gen. level fighter at least in the next 10 years, till the time China improves their J-20/makes another one. We are pretty comfortable with Rafale till then.

 

[Wisemarko]

No one brought F-22 or troubled F-35 to compare with Rafale apart from you.

This non-sense zibber zabber only tells how insecure you are to pitch F-16 against Rafale.

Gripen E is also better than F-16 in terms of RCS, avionics, GaN based AESA radar MBDA Meteor already integrated etc etc.

F-16s stand no chance against china while against American ally Pakistan we will use our Indo French Russian arsenal.

Tejas is there to replace whatever left of Mig 21 and is a much better transition for IAF than F-16s

In short both technologically & politically F-16s brings nothing but downgrade to the table now.

Again more fanboy discussion on F-16 vs Gripen vs Rafale. One has seen real air combat while others are impressive on paper.

Coming to pitch about F-16, I say do not buy them. Continue with Mig-21, Mig-29. The reason to consider F-16 was to replaced them isn’t it? I am sure the pilots and their families will wholeheartedly agree with your bravado and confidence in those fighters.

F-16 has enough buyers and even today it outsells both Gripen and Rafale (combined). So this attitude of Americans are trying to sell you something needs to go.

Don’t want to sound rude but US defense industry did just fine without India for decades.

 

[Wisemarko]

You are exactly that, a fanboy of F16 which are now obsolete jets compared to Rafale, heck even Gripen E/F

As I have already told you Mig21 sq are being replaced by Rafale(2 sq) Su30(2sq) rest Tejas(2sq)
Then Mk1a will add on our sq numbers

F-16 “obsolete jets” outsell both Rafale and Gripen combined. Sometimes proof of the pudding is...

 

[Wisemarko]

For fanboys hereView attachment 92296

And your point is?

 

[Tang]

And your point is?

Don't want to sound rude but If you could read charts, you would understand!

 

[Tang]

Again more fanboy discussion on F-16 vs Gripen vs Rafale. One has seen real air combat while others are impressive on paper.

Coming to pitch about F-16, I say do not buy them. Continue with Mig-21, Mig-29. The reason to consider F-16 was to replaced them isn’t it? I am sure the pilots and their families will wholeheartedly agree with your bravado and confidence in those fighters.

F-16 has enough buyers and even today it outsells both Gripen and Rafale (combined). So this attitude of Americans are trying to sell you something needs to go.

Don’t want to sound rude but US defense industry did just fine without India for decades.

Mig29 are amazing jets, the same one which scared the hell out of PAF F16 in Kargil,
Now with UPG upgrade they are one of the best in our inventory.

Last I know LM was begging for F16 line in India, because they want to close it in America

 

[Wisemarko]

Don't want to sound rude but If you could read charts, you would understand!

No I don’t understand. You should read your own charts first before asking others to make something of them

 

[Wisemarko]

Mig29 are amazing jets, the same one which scared the hell out of PAF F16 in Kargil,
Now with UPG upgrade they are one of the best in our inventory.

Last I know LM was begging for F16 line in India, because they want to close it in America

Pakistan air-force used only Sidewinder as primary A2A till 2007 due to sanctions. After AMRAAM C5 induction, you saw a shot down Mig-21, SU-30 taking evasive maneuvers and a captured pilot. Even older F-16 block 50 was that much better than any Indian jet that day. F-16V is just few times better. So please stop bravado, learn some humility or it will be shoved down your throat by reality.

LM makes more money every year than entire Indian defense acquisition budget, so don’t worry about LM begging. As a company it always wants more business and will continue to do so.

 

[Tang]

Pakistan air-force used only Sidewinder as primary A2A till 2007 due to sanctions. After AMRAAM C5 induction, you saw a shot down Mig-21, SU-30 taking evasive maneuvers and a captured pilot. Even older F-16 block 50 was that much better than any Indian jet that day. F-16V is just few times better. So please stop bravado, learn some humility or it will be shoved down your throat by reality.

LM makes more money every year than entire Indian defense acquisition budget, so don’t worry about LM begging. As a company it always wants more business and will continue to do so.

In the same fight, you forgot to mention a F16 got shot down with a MiG-21 with R73 at blank point range, as I have already told you, if Su30 were cleared to cross LoC or fire missiles they would shot down does f16 at the first blink,
The situation for PAF was so bad that they had to close their countries airspace for 6 month in fear of the same IAF.

So now get those f16 and shove it up your a*s, nobody sane would be buying it in this day and age, only poor airforce might buy it.

 

[Tang]

No I don’t understand. You should read your own charts first before asking others to make something of them

Looks like you seriously don't know how to read.

 

[Tang]

Pakistan air-force used only Sidewinder as primary A2A till 2007 due to sanctions. After AMRAAM C5 induction, you saw a shot down Mig-21, SU-30 taking evasive maneuvers and a captured pilot. Even older F-16 block 50 was that much better than any Indian jet that day. F-16V is just few times better. So please stop bravado, learn some humility or it will be shoved down your throat by reality.

LM makes more money every year than entire Indian defense acquisition budget, so don’t worry about LM begging. As a company it always wants more business and will continue to do so.

As an advice to you,
ask LM to withdraw from the tender as F16 wont be able to clear eve the technical trials, same as the last time.

And here it's fanboys would be begging us to take F16s to save their production line.

 

[johnq]

F-16 doesn't have enough lift to operate from high altitude areas like Ladakh, especially in summer.

 

[asianobserve]

F-16 doesn't have enough lift to operate from high altitude areas like Ladakh, especially in summer.

If Jaguar and MKI can operate from bases in Ladakh then F-16 easily can operate there too.

F-16 Block 70/72 is really one of the most cutting edge fighters one can buy right now short of F-35. My observation when it comes to the IAF is that the biggest hurdle to purchasing F-16s is 1) anti-American bias among political and military leaders and 2) F-16 association with Pakistan.

 

[johnq]

If Jaguar and MKI can operate from bases in Ladakh then F-16 easily can operate there too.

F-16 Block 70/72 is really one of the most cutting edge fighters one can buy right now short of F-35. My observation when it comes to the IAF is that the biggest hurdle to purchasing F-16s is 1) anti-American bias among political and military leaders and 2) F-16 association with Pakistan.

Jaguars would be severely handicapped if operating from Ladakh. Look at its wing loading. MKI would also be limited in what it could carry, in spite of it having much lower wing loading, and would likely have to refuel in the air. Once the enemy has taken out your refuelling planes, this starts to become a problem. F-16's wing loading is significantly worse than MKI, especially after being upgraded in a zillion ways. What you need is something with low wing loading like the Tejas for Ladakh.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Again more fanboy discussion on F-16 vs Gripen vs Rafale. One has seen real air combat while others are impressive on paper.

Coming to pitch about F-16, I say do not buy them. Continue with Mig-21, Mig-29. The reason to consider F-16 was to replaced them isn’t it? I am sure the pilots and their families will wholeheartedly agree with your bravado and confidence in those fighters.

F-16 has enough buyers and even today it outsells both Gripen and Rafale (combined). So this attitude of Americans are trying to sell you something needs to go.

Don’t want to sound rude but US defense industry did just fine without India for decades.

Again came zib zib zabber from a salesman who lost the sale opportunity.

There have been similar euphoria abt many American fighters for decades that they gave to Pakistan but all of them ended shotdown by Indian gnats maruts migs etc etc

And Yes F-16 has seen lots of combat against non existent airpower by bombing and taking down old jets.

I am not talking abt When Turkish F-16 was downed by Greek Mirage 2k though.

And tell that they don't need Indian business to those out of job homeless american workers begging on streets.

Rest you need not worry

 

[Flying Dagger]

If Jaguar and MKI can operate from bases in Ladakh then F-16 easily can operate there too.

F-16 Block 70/72 is really one of the most cutting edge fighters one can buy right now short of F-35. My observation when it comes to the IAF is that the biggest hurdle to purchasing F-16s is 1) anti-American bias among political and military leaders and 2) F-16 association with Pakistan.

You said IF Sukhoi can do then F-16 can ? That's hilarious bro

Sukhoi can do a lot of things and F-16s pilot can only watch in awe.

And nope Gripen Rafale Su57 are far better option than F-16 today which are available.

And there is no bias but facts based on reality. American fighter jets comes with strings attached and our geopolitics equation with them isn't so comfortable.

They have their own priority and strategy that include keeping India down in long-term. But we aren't here to be anyone sidekick.

And there is no Pakistani association with F-16 only but With America we have been against each other for decades if you look down in the history and that involved a direct attack from America on India on behalf of Pakistan.

 

[Tang]

You said IF Sukhoi can do then F-16 can ? That's hilarious bro

Sukhoi can do a lot of things and F-16s pilot can only watch in awe.

And nope Gripen Rafale Su57 are far better option than F-16 today which are available.

And there is no bias but facts based on reality. American fighter jets comes with strings attached and our geopolitics equation with them isn't so comfortable.

They have their own priority and strategy that include keeping India down in long-term. But we aren't here to be anyone sidekick.

And there is no Pakistani association with F-16 only but With America we have been against each other for decades if you look down in the history and that involved a direct attack from America on India on behalf of Pakistan.

These fan boys won't understand a thing,
They think F16s are better than Su30MKI
Do they even know the range of the radar and the fact that it can act as a mini awacs, like it did in multiple IAF exercises, where MiG-21 even hit those F15 and F16 while their location pinged by Su30MKI.
The same tactics would be used in a batter way with Tejas(due to its low RCS)

The block upgrade they do in F16, our drdo and HAL do it regularly with SU30MKI

SU30MKI can even carry fastest cruise missile in the world(even russian Su30 could not do it.)

The total range of the air lanuch supersonic missle system with Su30MKI is 3000km + 400km.

Let them think about that.

 

[Wisemarko]

Again came zib zib zabber from a salesman who lost the sale opportunity.

There have been similar euphoria abt many American fighters for decades that they gave to Pakistan but all of them ended shotdown by Indian gnats maruts migs etc etc

And Yes F-16 has seen lots of combat against non existent airpower by bombing and taking down old jets.

I am not talking abt When Turkish F-16 was downed by Greek Mirage 2k though.

And tell that they don't need Indian business to those out of job homeless american workers begging on streets.

Rest you need not worry

I don’t think a person from a country that has managed to made just “LCA” that can barely fly after 25 years thanks only to a GE engine- should be worrying about US aerospace workers and industry. Good bye

 

[asianobserve]

You said IF Sukhoi can do then F-16 can ? That's hilarious bro

Sukhoi can do a lot of things and F-16s pilot can only watch in awe.

And nope Gripen Rafale Su57 are far better option than F-16 today which are available.

And there is no bias but facts based on reality. American fighter jets comes with strings attached and our geopolitics equation with them isn't so comfortable.

They have their own priority and strategy that include keeping India down in long-term. But we aren't here to be anyone sidekick.

And there is no Pakistani association with F-16 only but With America we have been against each other for decades if you look down in the history and that involved a direct attack from America on India on behalf of Pakistan.

If this forum is reflective of Indian defense and political establishment as a whole, then it's no brainer to conclude that anti-American bias is pervasive in India. Not even the very serious Chinese strategic threat can make Indian defence and political establishment move closer to US and allies. The majority here peddle Russian disinformation slogans and are totally enamored with Putin and Russia.

Talking about Su-57, ever wondered why no country is rushing to embrace it, not even its producer, Russia?

Rafale, SH, F15EX, GripenE are similarly capable fighters. They are at the cutting edge of fighter tech only below F-22 and F-35. The differences are in cost.

 

[Tang]

I don’t think a person from a country that has managed to made just “LCA” that can barely fly after 25 years thanks only to a GE engine- should be worrying about US aerospace workers and industry. Good bye

Looks like you got pissed off,
No worry we are not buying your outdated stuff.

Good Bye