F-16 Viper

[Tang]

If this forum is reflective of Indian defense and political establishment as a whole, then it's no brainer to conclude that anti-American bias is pervasive in India. Not even the very serious Chinese strategic threat can make Indian defence and political establishment move closer to US and allies. The majority here peddle Russian disinformation slogans and are totally enamored with Putin and Russia.

Talking about Su-57, ever wondered why no country is rushing to embrace it, not even its producer, Russia?

Rafale, SH, F15EX, GripenE are similarly capable fighters. They are at the cutting edge of fighter tech only below F-22 and F-35. The differences are in cost.

Looks like you guys are not even able to understand our technical requirements.
When an aircraft won't be able to fly from LEH, how can it counter china, meanwhile F16 is not upto the mark.

If don't want to understand nobody can explain it to you.

 

[Tang]

If this forum is reflective of Indian defense and political establishment as a whole, then it's no brainer to conclude that anti-American bias is pervasive in India. Not even the very serious Chinese strategic threat can make Indian defence and political establishment move closer to US and allies. The majority here peddle Russian disinformation slogans and are totally enamored with Putin and Russia.

Talking about Su-57, ever wondered why no country is rushing to embrace it, not even its producer, Russia?

Rafale, SH, F15EX, GripenE are similarly capable fighters. They are at the cutting edge of fighter tech only below F-22 and F-35. The differences are in cost.

BTW both Rafale and F16 will be costly to us.

F16 - around 120M
Rafale - 150M

but rafale has some serious punch that F16 does not have.

 

[Tang]

I don’t think a person from a country that has managed to made just “LCA” that can barely fly after 25 years thanks only to a GE engine- should be worrying about US aerospace workers and industry. Good bye

Btw the same LCA's variant is kicking out the prospect of IAF buying your outdated jet.

Don't think American products are to the moon, or the reality will hit you hard, like it did in 65 71 wars and vietnam war

 

[asianobserve]

Looks like you guys are not even able to understand our technical requirements.
When an aircraft won't be able to fly from LEH, how can it counter china, meanwhile F16 is not upto the mark.

If don't want to understand nobody can explain it to you.

The evaluation looks very fishy to me. If Jaguar and Mirage 2000 can operate from these bases then why not F-16? F-16 has better T/W ratio than these aircrafts thereby able to power more in the thinner atmosphere there.

 

[Tang]

The evaluation looks very fishy to me. If Jaguar and Mirage 2000 can operate from these bases then why not F-16? F-16 has better T/W ratio than these aircrafts thereby able to power more in the thinner atmosphere there.

Yes everything is fishy, expect f16
There is aerodynamics phenomena known as wing loading. Read about that.

Wing loading - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

.


And learn why delta are generally better in load capacity.
You will get to the answer yourself.
This is why Tejas can operate in leh ladhak quite easily with around 3.5 ton while f16 failed to.

 

[asianobserve]

BTW both Rafale and F16 will be costly to us.

F16 - around 120M
Rafale - 150M

but rafale has some serious punch that F16 does not have.

F-16 definitely is not going to be more expensive than twin engined SH or 5th gen F-35. F-16 Block 70 is known to cost only $64M.

SH - $67.4M
F35A - $77.9M
GripenE - $85M
Su35 - $85M
F15EX - $87.7M
Rafale - $115M

Top 10 most expensive fighter jets in 2024

Explore the top 10 list featuring high-tech aircraft with the highest price tags in today's aviation market. Discover the most expensive fighter jets of 2024.

www.aerotime.aero

 

[Tang]

F-16 definitely is not going to be more expensive than twin engined SH or 5th gen F-35. F-16 Block 70 is known to cost only $64M.

SH - $67.4M
F35A - $77.9M
GripenE - $85M
Su35 - $85M
F15EX - $87.7M
Rafale - $115M

Top 10 most expensive fighter jets in 2024

Explore the top 10 list featuring high-tech aircraft with the highest price tags in today's aviation market. Discover the most expensive fighter jets of 2024.

www.aerotime.aero

Oh god you guys are seriously spoon fed type
The number you have posted is without any spares and engine(wrt F35 at least)

The real number
122M $ for a single jet of F16V
8 billion dollar for 66 planes

Taiwan secures bargain price for F-16Vs - Asia Times

Taiwan has officially appropriated NT$250 billion (US$8 billion) for buying 66 F-16V fighter jets from the US, and the money to pay for the single largest

asiatimes.com

 

[Tang]

Oh god you guys are seriously spoon fed type
The number you have posted is without any spares and engine(wrt F35 at least)

The real number
122M $ for a single jet of F16V
8 billion dollar for 66 planes

Taiwan secures bargain price for F-16Vs - Asia Times

Taiwan has officially appropriated NT$250 billion (US$8 billion) for buying 66 F-16V fighter jets from the US, and the money to pay for the single largest

asiatimes.com

Btw
The price that Taiwan has negotiated is said to be less than the average price agreed by Bahrain, Slovakia, Morocco and Bulgaria, who paid about $149 million per jet.
149 for F16V

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

If this forum is reflective of Indian defense and political establishment as a whole, then it's no brainer to conclude that anti-American bias is pervasive in India. Not even the very serious Chinese strategic threat can make Indian defence and political establishment move closer to US and allies. The majority here peddle Russian disinformation slogans and are totally enamored with Putin and Russia.

Talking about Su-57, ever wondered why no country is rushing to embrace it, not even its producer, Russia?

Rafale, SH, F15EX, GripenE are similarly capable fighters. They are at the cutting edge of fighter tech only below F-22 and F-35. The differences are in cost.

Mother Rossiya good , cia murica bad

 

[asianobserve]

Oh god you guys are seriously spoon fed type
The number you have posted is without any spares and engine(wrt F35 at least)

The real number
122M $ for a single jet of F16V
8 billion dollar for 66 planes

Taiwan secures bargain price for F-16Vs - Asia Times

Taiwan has officially appropriated NT$250 billion (US$8 billion) for buying 66 F-16V fighter jets from the US, and the money to pay for the single largest

asiatimes.com

All these prices quoted are fly away prices. Meaning prices including engines but excluding weapons and add on sensors (for the jets in the list other than the F-35).

 

[asianobserve]

Mother Rossiya good , cia murica bad

Exactly.

 

[asianobserve]

Btw
The price that Taiwan has negotiated is said to be less than the average price agreed by Bahrain, Slovakia, Morocco and Bulgaria, who paid about $149 million per jet.
149 for F16V

Final prices vary per country since the add on packages differ per country. But fly away cost is the same.

 

[Tang]

All these prices quoted are fly away prices. Meaning prices including engines but excluding weapons and add on sensors (for the jets in the list other than the F-35).

You mean to say, the concluded deal price of 150M jet is incorrect and someone who made a website and posted random cost for jet is correct.

Very good with that logic you will go very far.
Btw if you can show any deal showing f16v cost in the ballpark of 70M $, I am happy to see that.

 

[Tang]

Final prices vary per country since the add on packages differ per country. But fly away cost is the same.

And what made you believe that IAF wil not include that addon,even if we believe your statement.

 

[asianobserve]

You mean to say, the concluded deal price of 150M jet is incorrect and someone who made a website and posted random cost for jet is correct.

Very good with that logic you will go very far.
Btw if you can show any deal showing f16v cost in the ballpark of 70M $, I am happy to see that.

Just take a look at this Pogo report on F-35 cost. The report is not very rosy for the F-35 program but it made clear that the $77.9M is only the fly-away cost:

When people quote the $77.9 million figure, they are talking about the unit recurring flyaway cost, which is only the cost of the parts of the aircraft and the labor to put them together.

Selective Arithmetic to Hide F-35’s True Costs

F-35 boosters work hard to convince the American people and decision-makers in Washington of the program’s affordability year after year when it’s time to negotiate the next year’s contract.

www.pogo.org

.

Second, when you come across data, you must correlate it with the bigger picture. What do I mean? In the case of the F-16, you have to ask how many units have alreadt been produced? How is its production volume compared to its competition like SH, GripenE, Su-35 or Rafale? Now you get a better grasp on cost.

So how can a very low volume Gripen be lower in acquisition cost than F-16?

 

[Tang]

Just take a look at this Pogo report on F-35 cost. The report is not very rosy for the F-35 program but it made clear that the $77.9M is only the fly-away cost:

Selective Arithmetic to Hide F-35’s True Costs

F-35 boosters work hard to convince the American people and decision-makers in Washington of the program’s affordability year after year when it’s time to negotiate the next year’s contract.

www.pogo.org

.

Second, when you come across data, you must correlate it with the bigger picture. What do I mean? In the case of the F-16, you have to ask how many units have alreadt been produced? How is its production volume compared to its competition like SH, GripenE, Su-35 or Rafale? Now you get a better grasp on cost.

Man seriously, you guys have serious issue.

Look give me the concluded deal which states the price of F16 as 70M $ with spares etc included.

The Taiwan got it for 122M, even without any tech transfer.

Btw if you read the report it said the skeleton price for f35 without engine is now 110M
This is without any engine, weapon and spares.

Maybe now you will get it.

 

[Tang]

Man seriously, you guys have serious issue.

Look give me the concluded deal which states the price of F16 as 70M $ with spares etc included.

The Taiwan got it for 122M, even without any tech transfer.

Btw if you read the report it said the skeleton price for f35 without engine is now 110M
This is without any engine, weapon and spares.

Maybe now you will get it.

And let me conclude our little debate here.

F16 failed to qualify technical trial for IAF(wing loading, can't be fixed)

Rafale is better than F16 in all parameters(expect price which it has around 30M more per jet) - heck even USAF need a new clean sheet 4.5+ gen fighter.

We have HAL/ADA MWF in F16V class and capabilities, it's production will start in 2025, metal cutting has already started in Jan this year.

I rest my case.

 

[asianobserve]

Man seriously, you guys have serious issue.

Look give me the concluded deal which states the price of F16 as 70M $ with spares etc included.

The Taiwan got it for 122M, even without any tech transfer.

Btw if you read the report it said the skeleton price for f35 without engine is now 110M
This is without any engine, weapon and spares.

Maybe now you will get it.

How can an aircraft fly without an engine? Fly away cost is the cost of a flyable aircraft. But fly away cost is different from combat ready aircraft. It is in how a buyer configure its aircraft order that the latter cost varies per buyer. So some buyers will include x number and x kinds of weapons, x numbers and kinds of sensors, training package, depot level maintenance package, etc. etc.

You see a combat aircraft is not only the main fuselage + engine, it includes weapons sensor, properly trained pilot, maintenance, spare parts, hangar, etc.

 

[Tang]

How can an aircraft fly without an engine? Fly away cost is the cost of a flyable aircraft. But fly away cost is different from combat ready aircraft. It is in how a buyer configure its aircraft order that the latter cost varies per buyer. So some buyers will include x number and x kinds of weapons, x numbers and kinds of sensors, training package, depot level maintenance package, etc. etc.

You see a combat aircraft is not only the main fuselage + engine, it includes weapons sensor, properly trained pilot, maintenance, spare parts, hangar, etc.

And what is that for F16
122M$ ?

 

[asianobserve]

And what is that for F16
122M$ ?

Obviously that price is not just the fly away cost. It is fly away cost + add on sensors + weapons + training systems + maintenance package + spares + other things.

It's simply common sense, F-16 will always be cheaper in fly-away cost compared to SH or Gripen due to the sheer volume and efficiency of F-16 production, ie. economies of scale.