DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[AnantS]

Ture, but one big difference b/w US DARPA & NASA with ours is that, they are responsible for next gen unknown alien tech [super marvel tech] & ours developing current/existing tech

Early industrialization Advantage

In Russia, China - all R&D in defence is done by manufacturing unit[80%]

which is PSU

Lol- Elon musk not burning money on defense, matter of fact - no private company will, legally, unless it is ok to sell to public

I quoted Elon example as an allude to risk taking ability. Which Indian industry is ready to burn money like him on R&D - when results may or may not be guaranteed.

In others words- In Russia, China & US, gov spends 85% of funs for R&D in defence including setting up test labs & facilities,

First two in PSU and last both in public and pvt sector undertakings.

 

[AnantS]

If you include all such organisations within the ambit of the DRDO you have to budget for their R&D & day to day expenses as well which is where we risk spreading the resources of DRDO too thin for then follows responsibility & accountability .

I agree mate, but you don't understand problem here in India. Its pvt industry's risk averse nature prevents it from investing in R&D for even most simple things like MRE/RTE or even parachutes. Thats why you have such branches under DRDO. Had pvt sector offered alternatives, drdo's respective branches would see attrition.

 

[johnj]

Early industrialization Advantage
which is PSU
I quoted Elon example as an allude to risk taking ability. Which Indian industry is ready to burn money like him on R&D - when results may or may not be guaranteed.
First two in PSU and last both in public and pvt sector undertakings.

Good points -
1.Early industrialization Advantage
2.First two in PSU and last both in public and pvt sector undertakings.
Bad joke -
1.I quoted Elon example as an allude to risk taking ability. Which Indian industry is ready to burn money like him on R&D - when results may or may not be guaranteed.

But I'm not talking about any of these point, my point is
R&D and manufacturing should be under one org

Back to your points, consider your good points 1 & 2, it is clear that due to lack of Early industrialization Advantage & zero exp, our private need to build up both, before burning money, and experience is key
and gov need to pay all funds, Now joke part - no one in India including goi having such huge amounts of money to burn like Elon -

 

[Raj Malhotra]

I don’t think LCA MK2 will fly before 2027 and I think production models of LCA MK2 will roll out only by 2035, hence we need to order +97 LCA MKIA already cleared by DAC and perhaps order another +100 LCA MKI to bridge the gap till LCA MK2

 

[Blademaster]

I agree mate, but you don't understand problem here in India. Its pvt industry's risk averse nature prevents it from investing in R&D for even most simple things like MRE/RTE or even parachutes. Thats why you have such branches under DRDO. Had pvt sector offered alternatives, drdo's respective branches would see attrition.

We need to offer tax sops and incentives to encourage R&D by private companies.

 

[raju1982]

I don’t think LCA MK2 will fly before 2027 and I think production models of LCA MK2 will roll out only by 2035, hence we need to order +97 LCA MKIA already cleared by DAC and perhaps order another +100 LCA MKI to bridge the gap till LCA MK2

If FF in 2027, no induction before 2040. we need 5th gen fighter todah and 6th gen by 2035. We should join either FCAS or Tempest.

 

[johnj]

We need to offer tax sops and incentives to encourage R&D by private companies.

Not going to work - but a large order & funds for R&D will

 

[porky_kicker]

lca mk2 ka to KLPD ho gaya
reason why i dont bother pondering over big ticket items with external dependencies

imo the negotiation for 414 should not have been locked in thereby giving US leverage to play games, other options should have been kept open too

and nothing to say of the genius who put that engine clause with release of funds , talk about self sabotage indian babu style

 

[johnj]

lca mk2 ka to KLPD ho gaya
reason why i dont bother pondering over big ticket items with external dependencies

imo the negotiation for 414 should not have been locked in thereby giving US leverage to play games, other options should have been kept open too

and nothing to say of the genius who put that engine clause with release of funds , talk about self sabotage indian babu style

What options ?

 

[porky_kicker]

What options ?

ej200 , M88-4

 

[Azaad]

ej200 , M88-4

We ought to initiate steps to get into an acquisition off the shelf & ToT with SAFRAN. I certainly hope MoD will come out of its baniya mentality now & quit haggling like they're used to doing so in many cases. The French will demand their pound of flesh . We should be mentally prepared to acquiesce to their demands. From our side the only clauses which ought to be non negotiable are full ToT with know how & know why & no cessation of supplies & services in times of emergencies i.e - no unilateral untimely bans.

 

[johnj]

ej200 , M88-4

ej200 - both uk & germany follow usa
M88-4 - status & funding ??

 

[defkid68419]

Let's say AMCA gets CCS approval this month's DAC then won't both of these prototypes come out together, since there aren't any clauses of engine and stuff anymore?

 

[porky_kicker]

ej200 - both uk & germany follow usa
M88-4 - status & funding ??

no idea
as you said yourself pay money to France and its status will change

 

[Azaad]

no idea
as you said yourself pay money to France and its status will change

The M-88 Stage 4 has already been developed long ago. No idea if it's been tested but I don't foresee that to be an issue. If paid their asking price the French can come up with certified prototypes in a couple of years . After all the base product has been in operation for donkeys years, the Stage 4 is merely an uprated version.

The best person to ask would be Picdelamirand-oil on Strat Front. He's a veritable treasure trove of information on the French aerospace industry.

 

[AnantS]

Now joke part - no one in India including goi having such huge amounts of money to burn like Elon -

GOI can burn money - if it feels that technology and stream is needed to support its long term goals. case in point FBR and research in 3stage nuclear processing program in India. Space research etc etc..
Thats why you have DRDO as public enterprise. Now coming to synergizing research unit and manufacturing inc as one This is precisely what being implemented. Now DRDO once develops a product & is accepted by Armed forces - ropes in a manufacturing unit(pvt or public) with whom it works closely in productionizing product. "Productionizing" a Prototype or Lab product is another whole different ballgame which needs Research of its own. Thats why DRDO hand hold production. Once industry is confident they stream roll. Case in point ASTRA Microwave. They were given ToT by DRDO, handheld by DRDO in productionizing Radars in initial batches. now they are spinning their own products.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Let's say AMCA gets CCS approval this month's DAC then won't both of these prototypes come out together, since there aren't any clauses of engine and stuff anymore?

Amca isn't getting ccs unitl next year

 

[jai jaganath]

lca mk2 ka to KLPD ho gaya
reason why i dont bother pondering over big ticket items with external dependencies

imo the negotiation for 414 should not have been locked in thereby giving US leverage to play games, other options should have been kept open too

and nothing to say of the genius who put that engine clause with release of funds , talk about self sabotage indian babu style

So when mk2 will arrive it maybe obselete thus reducing the no of orders
Yeh toh paida hone sa pehle hi khatam ho gaya

 

[Eagle Eye]

We need to offer tax sops and incentives to encourage R&D by private companies.

We're allowing 2% of CSR for R&D. Modi govt should allow entire 5% CSR can be used for R&D. No need for tax SOPs.

 

[AnantS]

We need to offer tax sops and incentives to encourage R&D by private companies.

Its all there ... pvt just games the sys