DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Ayushraj]

Harm is that private companies barely know anything on such technology. They are profit makers and not researchers and they will only take technology to produce for you. Government can sustained losses of many billions but a private firm won't survive a loss of even a few millions.

There are very few private companies in country will to take R&D. And till now, they only can make small UAVs. Our ecosystem isn't there yet.

Even at DRDO, things have matured with time and beared results, aircrafts, armaments, seekers, radars etc. all being produced within country. ISRO is dependent upon over 500 private factories, from spares to rocket engines. This is called creation of ecosystem. This takes time for any country who didn't even know how to make fertilizers after independence. Our critcism is of little value to any DRDO lab.

Even for producing tejas or any other military aircraft we need an ecosystem .
We are not like ruhaani Pakistan their pac produce jf17 by itself. Their is no ecosystem in Pakistan.
But we behave like that single company can solemnly manufacturer uav or aircraft. Its work and technology of hundreds and thousands company altogether

 

[Lonewolf]

Even for producing tejas or any other military aircraft we need an ecosystem .
We are not like ruhaani Pakistan their pac produce jf17 by itself. Their is no ecosystem in Pakistan.
But we behave like that single company can solemnly manufacturer uav or aircraft. Its work and technology of hundreds and thousands company altogether

Why you have to insult pork everytime ,he was pumping his goat calmly and you insulted them here

 

[Willy3]

Israeli have DPSU, China have DPSU, France have DPSU led industry.

As we can see from last decade our DPSUs output is great based on our investment.

With shoe string budget distributed among various sectors it's hard to expect state of the art technological innovation from all the field.

As our private sector have no risk takers our government doesn't have other options than investing bigger and bigger ammount in R&D which will happen periodically.

 

[Alfalfa]

L$T integrated nuclear reactor into submarine and work our psus were not able to do
So project delayed for 7-8 years

No they did not, you are flat out lying .... that reactor was almost entirely built by BARC, the only private sector firm to support it was Kirloskar and they only did the low end of the tech in terms of pressure valves and some of the plumbing, L&T has no experience with reactors... please stop bullshitting when your bullshit has been caught... its ok to admit you were wrong... happens to the best of us.

 

[Arihant Roy]

Do we have a picture of sp25

 

[mist_consecutive]

Lol how many we actually built? We are waiting for Rutoms in service for years, no induction till date and never will be.

Why numbers matter? It's a test prototype, we are validating its parameters, it is not certified to be operational yet. Get out of the perfectionism ideology, tests fail all the time.

Yeah, we are waiting, because DRDO/ADE is doing a terrible job, but do we have an alternative?

Better merge it with ada , and work in partnership with newspace and new startup .

My fear us ghatak ucav is with ade , hope they don't fuck up royally , also nirbhay is a mess

Arihant was delayed for years because of our psus.
So L$T was stepped in
And now after getting project in right direction because of L$T . Now L$T is kicked out of project

Probably the correct way to preserve ADA/DRDO talent and merging it with the private sector will be to privatize these PSUs, remove the central govt. benefits and job security, change hiring criteria and hire cut-throat managers to lead projects.

Some ppl have some kind of obsession anything of private sector.

Because the private sector works, literally and figuratively.

The fundamental ideology is different. The private sector survives on profit, and profit is achieved if they produce something valuable. Innovation and excellence are expected, and only the best survives and mediocre people are weeded away.

PSUs & govt. undertakings don't have any such obligations. 90% of people in PSUs have a leisure mentality, growth & promotion periodically fixed, no push for innovation or ethical work culture. Because at last, why would they, if you are not rewarded for excellence and punished for mediocrity, there is no point in working.

I have seen talents from IITs steer away clear from PSUs because of one simple reason, stagnant growth. Exorbitant money, recognition, and work culture will never be a feature of govt. undertaking.

Israeli have DPSU, China have DPSU, France have DPSU led industry.

As we can see from last decade our DPSUs output is great based on our investment.

With shoe string budget distributed among various sectors it's hard to expect state of the art technological innovation from all the field.

As our private sector have no risk takers our government doesn't have other options than investing bigger and bigger ammount in R&D which will happen periodically.

DPSUs themselves are not the problem, but a complex intertwined system of reservation, babu-giri, poor work culture, extreme job safety, flawed hiring system, and a non-existent reward-punishment system present in Indian PSUs.

 

[Arihant Roy]

I would have loved to smell the fresh coat of primer.
That sweet outright strong scent .

SP-26

 

[Willy3]

Probably the correct way to preserve ADA/DRDO talent and merging it with the private sector will be to privatize these PSUs, remove the central govt. benefits and job security, change hiring criteria and hire cut-throat managers to lead projects.


Because the private sector works, literally and figuratively.

The fundamental ideology is different. The private sector survives on profit, and profit is achieved if they produce something valuable. Innovation and excellence are expected, and only the best survives and mediocre people are weeded away.

PSUs & govt. undertakings don't have any such obligations. 90% of people in PSUs have a leisure mentality, growth & promotion periodically fixed, no push for innovation or ethical work culture. Because at last, why would they, if you are not rewarded for excellence and punished for mediocrity, there is no point in working.

I have seen talents from IITs steer away clear from PSUs because of one simple reason, stagnant growth. Exorbitant money, recognition, and work culture will never be a feature of govt. undertaking.



DPSUs themselves are not the problem, but a complex intertwined system of reservation, babu-giri, poor work culture, extreme job safety, flawed hiring system, and a non-existent reward-punishment system present in Indian PSUs.

Do you know what happen with sich motor of Ukraine ? The famous high bypass Jet manufacturer of Ukraine ?

After disinvestment, the "Profit oriented" new owners of the company sold 75%+ share to chinese government through various companies , now ppl like you would cry if similarly after disinvestment organization like GTRE or other strategic PSU start selling itself to enemy countries...FFS ppl lost there mind when HDFC and flipkarts share starts to gobble up by Chinese investors.

There are no 'only way' to improve our DPSUs, there are multiple ways but selling strategic PSU isn't one.

And what problems you have with benefits and rewards engineers getting there ? Our DPSUs aren't successful cause our engineers are lazy it's because you want results like China and Israel with 1/5,1/7th of R&D budget, with leadership both in military and civilian system interested in kickbacks rather going for atmanirbhar.
Just because we b.tech came out in flock with 100+ engg clg in big states doesn't mean those scientists are like avg us working in IT mnc.

 

[Willy3]

We have to work with what we got, our private sector is growing and can't invest in R&D , most of its venture is JV with foreign technology provider and bring out local production varient of a foreign product and make profit of it, so we don't have IP of many of those technology, results in future problems if any sanction is came to effect.

our private sector have great future only if our present DPSUs can shed it for like 15-20 years, then it will grow out of their shadow and became the future of our defence industry but the time hasn't come yet.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Do you know what happen with sich motor of Ukraine ? The famous high bypass Jet manufacturer of Ukraine ?

After disinvestment, the "Profit oriented" new owners of the company sold 75%+ share to chinese government through various companies , now ppl like you would cry if similarly after disinvestment organization like GTRE or other strategic PSU start selling itself to enemy countries...FFS ppl lost there mind when HDFC and flipkarts share starts to gobble up by Chinese investors.

There are no 'only way' to improve our DPSUs, there are multiple ways but selling strategic PSU isn't one.

And what problems you have with benefits and rewards engineers getting there ? Our DPSUs aren't successful cause our engineers are lazy it's because you want results like China and Israel with 1/5,1/7th of R&D budget, with leadership both in military and civilian system interested in kickbacks rather going for atmanirbhar.
Just because we b.tech came out in flock with 100+ engg clg in big states doesn't mean those scientists are like avg us working in IT mnc.

So your only point of concern is the private sector selling itself to foreign sectors. That is solved by govt. new rule that any Chinese investment will require permission.

No minimum threshold, Chinese FDI must get govt permission: Report

Report says Taiwan may be excluded from rules requiring Centre's clearance of FDI

www.theweek.in

Agree, there is no 'only' way, but getting out of "govt. job" ideological muck is the most important one.

And what problems you have with benefits and rewards engineers getting there ? Our DPSUs aren't successful cause our engineers are lazy it's because you want results like China and Israel with 1/5,1/7th of R&D budget, with leadership both in military and civilian system interested in kickbacks rather going for atmanirbhar.

As explained, if there is no reward-punishment system, no one will put an effort. This is the same reason communism never works. Equal benefits do not translate to equal efforts.
The system has to be cut-throat, job security conditional, reward & promotion merit-based, and managers competent.

Just because we b.tech came out in flock with 100+ engg clg in big states doesn't mean those scientists are like avg us working in IT mnc.

How are the DRDO/HAL scientists hired? It's through GATE. GATE top rankers (top 100s) + each reservation categories get positions.
And guess what, IITans don't even bother to give GATE unless it's for higher studies. We are facing brain-drain at an incredible rate.

Govt. has to provide incentives to capture the cream talent and engage them in correct sectors.

 

[porky_kicker]

It is a Rustom-1 that crashed.
View attachment 83146

It didn't crash , the operator crashed it. Into the wall while landing .

Thats a big difference

 

[porky_kicker]

Since almost everyone takes twitter to be the final word in any matter

Here

 

[Killbot]

It didn't crash , the operator crashed it. Into the wall while landing .

Thats a big difference

Which is worse.

Who operates these things? That was a hell of an expensive human error.

 

[Ayushraj]

No they did not, you are flat out lying .... that reactor was almost entirely built by BARC, the only private sector firm to support it was Kirloskar and they only did the low end of the tech in terms of pressure valves and some of the plumbing, L&T has no experience with reactors... please stop bullshitting when your bullshit has been caught... its ok to admit you were wrong... happens to the best of us.

Redirect Notice

Yeh 2013 ka haal hai.
Jab psus 7-8 saal ka delay submarine per kar chuki thi

 

[FalconSlayers]

It didn't crash , the operator crashed it. Into the wall while landing .

Thats a big difference

It crashed and that’s what I posted, doesn’t matter how it crashed, I got one pic I posted it.

 

[Marliii]

No they did not, you are flat out lying .... that reactor was almost entirely built by BARC, the only private sector firm to support it was Kirloskar and they only did the low end of the tech in terms of pressure valves and some of the plumbing, L&T has no experience with reactors... please stop bullshitting when your bullshit has been caught... its ok to admit you were wrong... happens to the best of us.

L&t has experience in nuclear reactor technology do some research before hitting at others.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Even for producing tejas or any other military aircraft we need an ecosystem .
We are not like ruhaani Pakistan their pac produce jf17 by itself. Their is no ecosystem in Pakistan.
But we behave like that single company can solemnly manufacturer uav or aircraft. Its work and technology of hundreds and thousands company altogether

There is no need bring to Pakistan everywhere. Indian MIC was never comparable to Pakistan even 30 years ago.

They are not someone in race nor measuring our growth on considering them as scale will ever bear positive results.

 

[Marliii]

[QUOTE =“ Sridhar，帖子：221，成员：6”]
冗长的，但必须阅读...




M Natarajan博士的新闻 说：2009年印度国际航空展：未来挑战艰巨，机遇无限
2009年2月11日

与外国实体的合作也很早就出现了，但从本质上讲，它仅限于生产。国防部长科学顾问，国防部防卫组织司令官纳塔拉让博士说，现在我们正在从一个有实力的职位，尤其是在设计和系统工程方面进行交谈。

1.国防部门准备与国家和公司进行前所未有的合作。您如何看待这样一个时代的来临？这种合作可能会带来什么好处，以及我们应该谨防的陷阱？
我对增加合作的可能性和机会感到非常兴奋。当然，合作也早在那儿，但本质上仅限于生产。我想说的是，现在我们正在从设计和系统工程领域的某个强项上谈起-因此，显然，这种合作是从开发阶段本身的可能性就开始的。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。

国防部长的科学顾问M Natarajan博士和DRDO负责人机遇确实是好的，因为在高度相互依存的世界中，同时开发所有组成技术太困难了。例如，它可能与推进有关-尽管您可能擅长设计空气结构，空气动力学。您可能已经开发出一些系统集成功能，但是尽管许可生产的发动机具有一定的制造能力，但您可能还不具备推进技术所需的专业知识水平。

因此，如果我们与合作伙伴国家或行业合作来加快您的开发计划，那么实际上并不是障碍。为此，这是可以在较短的时间范围内实现的，并且还可以使产品的整体成熟度达到更高的性能满意度。

陷阱，对于某些类型的传感器也是如此，正如我提到的那样，对于传感器或雷达或雷达的某些部分可能是正确的，因为我们可以在这个国家做得很好。我们可以很好地进行集成，可以制造天线，也许可以是电子载波的信号和数据处理器，也可以从其他国家/地区采购。因此，它为您提供了许多机会来评估您自己的技术水平，并可以在模块级别或作为一个整体模块进行集成。

现在，这取决于您愿意折衷多少，以及您的协作者愿意付出多少。但是，我认为，当他们看到您完成这些任务的能力和专业知识时，合作的意愿就会增加，因为他们看到了更大的商机，这是企业的现实。

有必要对这些陷阱进行缓冲，因为我们必须意识到，在当今全球化的世界中，存在两种截然不同的限制类型。

一个是政府的，无论出于何种原因，这可能是您未签署《不扩散核武器条约》或《 MTCR》，而这并不是该国政策的掌握者。

第二种也是商业强制性-某些技术水平可能不被接受，直到他们看到如果他们不接受它，您可以寻求替代来源。

第三点是，如果您继续从其他国家/地区采购某些零件或模块作为技术包的一部分，则必须在一定时期内保证供应是绝对必要的。另外，由于各种原因，例如新的NSG法规等，许多国家/地区希望签署具有一定合规性要求的最终用户协议。有必要检查这些合规要求是否以最适合我们军队的方式侵犯我们使用我们设计的产品（飞机或电子战系统）的权利。

尽管如此，我认为应该越来越多地采用协作方式，因为这是开展未来业务的唯一途径。

2.在全球经济衰退，发展成本不断上升以及外国公司国内订单减少的时代，印度应如何处理与国防部门全球实体的合作问题？
就国防而言，尽管存在经济问题，但还是有一定的底线要求，这些要求是基于国家的安全考虑-因此，与商业部门相同的逻辑并不适用。但是就印度这样的国家而言，即使是这一底线，也是相当合理的。因此，我们在国外的合作伙伴应该找到印度一个有吸引力的合作伙伴。

我们之所以要发展和合作，是为了将整个供应链的成本保持在可管理的水平，并且要最大限度地利用本地的建筑材料和能力，因为这类产品将需要近25-30年的生命周期支持。所有这些公司没有必要在这么长的时间内保持相同的形式。因此，我们应该有能力-如果事情发生得早于此-公司得到重组，或者业务计划早于改变，我们有一个备份计划，并且我们不会遇到任何重大困难。

因此，这是我提到的一些陷阱，但尽管如此，国防方面的经济考虑对实现武装部队要求的主要目标来说是次要的（尽管很重要）。

显然，我们寻求双方的双赢局面，随着您的发展，外国合作伙伴也赞赏您吸收更高技术水平的能力。他们对我们是否可以真正吸收高科技并将其集成到有意义的产品中感到怀疑。但是，随着我们在LCA，电子战方面取得的成功，特别是我们整合航空电子设备的能力，例如：Sukhoi，最近是MIG 27，我们对其模块进行了升级，空军对此感到非常高兴。

所有这些都清楚地表明了我们掌握自己的能力，这对于进行协作努力应该是一个好兆头。因此，我认为，任何合作都是实现双赢局面的明显机会，同时为我们的部队提供经济的价格和准时的交付。
[/引用]

Mods what is this?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Mods what is this?

Spam, just was looking at DP of the chick before banning her.

 

[fire starter]

Since almost everyone takes twitter to be the final word in any matter

Here

ADE doesn't even have proper drone operator lol.