DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Armand2REP]

Well, we had Indian content on P-8I, Su 30MKI, Il78MKI. Although to be fair, P-8I was only because we aren't signatories to CISMOA and they replaced all ally-grade items with open-sourced stuff.

Russia has always been ready and willing to put Indian content on board, but the current order book has shifted to the West that doesn't allow this. This will eat up most of the procurement budget over the next decade, and eat the maintenance budget for decades to come. None of which will be using Indian content and keeping DRDO projects from seeing daylight.

 

[Khagesh]

The best thing on the list is the Muzzle Reference System for the Arjun.

Kitna order size hai Arjun ka aur kitna indigenous tech achieve karne se, khush hoga Mogambo. Its crazy to even use that list to criticize DRDO. If anything its an indictment on the Political establishment that was playing games and the armed forces honchos who were writing accurate but motivated reports all the while.

 

[Armand2REP]

Here you can see Dr. V K Saraswat himself confirming that the new engine project will be an organic growth of the Kaveri experience.

Did they ever put Kaveri into indigenous naval turbines like they planned?

 

[Bhadra]

Accha Bhadra bhai kindly tell me what the hell is MET Projectile. I don't know what it is. But to be able to criticize and to be able to confirm if the criticism is valid I need to know what the hell it means.

Forget MET projectiles. I hope you understand the rest 25.
and what DRDO site you have quoted does not convey any thing.
If you are averse to Behara who according to you is honcho, I will start quoting CAG ... may be that will be not be contested.

about the competence of Armed force personnel, they have five times more number of technocrats, MTech, and B Tech than DRDO. DRDO itself is the product of two Armed Forces technical institutes.

Suffice it to say that more than 30 percent of your scientific manpower is only BSC or diploma holders masquerading as scientists !!

In 1995, the CAG had made an observation regarding the persistence of the problem in a review report on six
DRDO laboratories. In the case of the Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), a key lab responsible for design and development of combat vehicles, the CAG noted that “about 48 per cent of the strength of officers was unqualified and represented level of education up to B.Sc, or Diploma in Engineering.”

 

[Armand2REP]

stop this DRDO bashing....How many of you know how our nuclear capable missile program has become successful against stiff US resistance? It is due to the vision of late Mrs Gandhi and APJ Kalam sahab....!!!! The scientists who made Prithvi,Agni ,akash and Brahmos successful, it is due to their selfless dedication and sheer hard work!!!

Brahmos = Russia, Akash = Poland... DRDO got you to MRBM when China just gives it to Pakistan. I will admit they make a mean khichidi.

 

[Khagesh]

I am sure I ever called Behara a honcho. My bile is against the IAF honchos and not one step beyond that.

Also the degrees now finally come out. Hain ji. Do the degrees make people comfortable. Do people want degrees or do they want a product. I have some of these armed forces technocrats in relations. More american than even americans.

And for the record I am not from DRDO. I don't have enough brains to be able to work there. God made me that way. I am happy this way.

I don't even support DRDO mostly. I only support Modi. But between a Cabal that is unwilling to even release gas money for testing and an organisation that has already achieved a lot on all fronts where imports were not possible - its a no brainer choice.




Regards KMGT - No Kaveri Marine is not installed. Yet. GTRE is still working on improving its life. Unfortunately the budget is limited. KMGT was tested on Indian Navy's facilities and after those tests IN has offered to take ~40 Gas Turbines and ~40 Gas turbine power generators provided the life cycle is sorted out. In any case IN ships get planned for several years early and KMGT will require some good luck of a favourable govt. also to be seen in IN service. Another thing is IN is moving towards bigger ships while KMGT is a lot smaller engine. But in the end even if KMGT is not used directly it will lay the firm foundations for future propulsion needs of IN. The money purses are only now getting released.

 

[Khagesh]

Brahmos = Russia, Akash = Poland... DRDO got you to MRBM when China just gives it to Pakistan. I will admit they make a mean khichidi.

Are you by any chance Prasoon Sen Gupta.

Somebody had on his site replied on the Akash=Poland and seems like Prasoon did not like it.

And yes Brahmos from Russia is the basis for much more. And a frenchie craft cannot even lug it around.

 

[Bhadra]

Bharat Karnad is no mean commentator if one does not like Behara.

He wrote:

"
DRDO, on its part, has prospered by creating illusion. Other than in certain areas, such as in writing sophisticated software and devising complex algorithms to drive military systems, DRDO projects are mostly scams. Behind every project that’s touted for realising “self-sufficiency” lies imported technology in some guise. In fact, it has been so grossly inept in not insisting on total transfer of technology from its partners that foreign defence firms happily strike deals in which Indian monies fund the development of state-of-the-art technology in other countries but get nothing out of it except finished high-cost products. It is not the fault of the supplier firms that DRDO has proved so inattentive, gullible, and plain reckless with public monies. Take for example the advanced medium-range and long-range missile systems supposedly being collaboratively developed with Israel. Except in striking a contract for `15,000 crore, DRDO settled for only a work-share arrangement and that too to fabricate the low-value backend of these missile systems, with the Israeli company retaining the intellectual property rights on all the technology so developed. A similar deal for a short-range missile system with Dassault Aviation has just been signed and another `30,000 crore is consequently going down the drain. Because in this business suckers are not given an even chance, the foreign companies can hardly be blamed for exploiting DRDO’s unwillingness to leverage India’s financial subsidy to obtain full proprietary and production rights for all technologies generated in such projects. So what is the department of defence finance doing other than sleeping on the job?
If DRDO brass were to be hauled up, it would be like pulling out a foundational stone that could bring the whole fraudulent public sector defence industrial edifice that, notwithstanding its claims, has produced no original technology after the Marut HF-24 in the 1970s, tumbling down. It is the reason why the Naresh Chandra Committee’s recommendation that the offices of scientific adviser to defence minister, head of DRDO, and secretary defence R&D be separated, may never get implemented. There are too many vested interests in the armed services, DRDO, and DPSUs who have it good to want this situation to change."

http://archive.asianage.com/columnists/zero-drdo-808

 

[Khagesh]

Bhadra bhai, would you be kind enough to tell us what Bharat Karnad thinks of MoD+IAF+Import lobbies on the Rafale deal.

Anyhow Bharat Karnad is right a lot of what DRDO is into should not be doing. Your own Behera whom you now want to save, also points out how in the PVNR days DRDO projects were re-investigated and reduced. Even in the Dr. Saraswat video and in the interviews of Sri Tamilmani, the need to re-focus comes out expressly and clearly. DRDO leadership knows their time is now.

You have to realise DRDO was living for last 10 years among people who had problems with even gas money for testing.

Compare that to:
1) 300+700+2300+70 Crore being released now, for just the engine designing,
2) the queries about Kaveri possibilities, by Jaitley himself, and
3) IN interest in marine and generator versions.
Sir ji, this is a new beginning. This is how nationalists work.

As you can see above anybody who supports Rafale hates DRDO. Sirf DODO hi bolna rah gaya hai, warna koi kasar nahi chodi firangion ne. Must be a reason for that utter hate. That hate itself implies how important DRDO is. So before you too end up mis-spelling it DODO, I hope you realise the success of DRDO also before you end up being an AAPtard version of Indian defence aficionados.


But what the hell is MET projectiles. Anybody please. I tried googling for nearly half an hour for it. But failed. TIA

 

[Bhadra]

But what the hell is MET projectiles. Anybody please. I tried googling for nearly half an hour for it. But failed. TIA

I also missed this knowing fully well what the heck Met is . MET means meteorological rest all is so simple .

Projectile path is dictated by estimated line of fire. Line of fire can be estimated by referring RT as well as trajectory model on computer. RT is prepared under ISA/ICAO meteorological standard conditions without wind effect. Meteorological conditions like density, humidity, pressure, wind, temperature affect the path of the trajectory. Meteorological data plays very important role in trajectory prediction. Trajectory is predicted using RT for a particular weapon where ICAO standard met data is used. Ind Std met data is different from ICAO data. Use of Ind Std data improves the accuracy of trajectory prediction for Indian field deployment. comparative study of effect on projectile path under ICAO, Ind Std and actual Indian prevailing met are carried out and analyzed. From this analysis, a new model has been established that if actual prevailing met is not available then trajectory prediction can be carried out using Ind Std met data with wind data as per date and time. It predicts trajectory very close to actual. Effect of wind has been studied and found that wind effect is very dominant on projectile path. Study of effect of density also has been carried out.. It is observed that Ind Std density values are much close to actual as compared to ICAO. Therefore, if insufficient met is recorded then Ind std density can be used to fill density values for that region.

The projectile-borne meteorological information detection dropsonde is designed to be launched by a missile and dropped at altitude as the missile reached its peak to detect real-time meteorological information as the device falls to the surface. The high acceleration shock deriving from missile launch, violent changes of atmospheric parameter and stochastic disruptions from external environment are the main difficult to design this device. To deal with those problems, we apply sensors based on MEMS technology as their high performance in accuracy, anti-overload and easy integration, we explore best locations on the dropsonde body for sensors based on simulation, we develop effective arithmetic for data processing. At last, the performance of dropsonde is verified by some ground static experiments.

 

[Ray]

@Khagesh

Bharat Karnad is a Research Professor in National Security Studies at the Centre for Policy Research, New Delhi. CPR, Dharma Marg, Chanakyapuri, New Delhi.

Why get your answer second hand.

Contact him direct and let us know what he feels.

You will be doing great service.

 

[Hari Sud]

Bhara, although you are a devil's advocate, but I tend to favor your opinions. There is always need of a counter opinion.

But when you switch to say that you are stating facts only, I withdraw my support to you. Your facts are mostly criticisms. You are a critic of everything and you express these negative opinions profusely.

Get out of criticism only mode.

 

[Bhadra]

Bhara, although you are a devil's advocate, but I tend to favor your opinions. There is always need of a counter opinion.

But when you switch to say that you are stating facts only, I withdraw my support to you. Your facts are mostly criticisms. You are a critic of everything and you express these negative opinions profusely.

Get out of criticism only mode.

Look at the topic sir ... I am going as per that. I have only quoted from the sources which may be wrong. I have not expressed my own opinion any where.

I had attended Institute of Armament Technology (now called DIAT - deemed university) courses many years back with full reverence to DRDO but things have remained there only. I was also fortunate to see most of their labs subsequently and was also associated with a 20 years old DRDO project ... they give you dream and dream and tell you then to eat up that dream.

I assure you soldiers do look up to them with reverence with the hope they will improve their arms and equipment but if the product is cauliflower at Leh then one is disappointed. The scientist lack the experience and feel of soldiers and field conditions. In my opinion they should first serve the forces for five years.

This is my first opinionated post in the thread.

 

[Ray]

Before doing the Staff Course, officers who qualify for the Staff Course have to attend the Armament Reorientation Course.

The course was an exciting eyeopener and the various experiment they were undertaking filled one with pride.

The effort of the DRDO to make the military a cutting edge force has not really fructified and so yes, unlike @Bahdra, the cauliflower at Leh which are like meteorites, does make me proud that at least they are good at farm produce.

 

[power_monger]

ok fine, lets agree DRDO is a failed org. Now what next? I am really intrested to know what the DRDO critics want as a DRDO alternative? What would be the cost of such alternatives? Whether it can give us results making us operational ready? Whether those alternatives demand huge money? What amount of time is required?

 

[Ray]

ok fine, lets agree DRDO is a failed org. Now what next? I am really intrested to know what the DRDO critics want as a DRDO alternative? What would be the cost of such alternatives? Whether it can give us results making us operational ready? Whether those alternatives demand huge money? What amount of time is required?

Well to start with, obtain TOT and get the complete TOT and not the low end part of the joint venture.

Identify what can be achieved given the expertise and experience in DRDO and not kitefly or biting more than what one can chew.

Downsize the bureaucratic morass and make DRDO lean and accountable with regular progress report.

Select bright youth and send them various technology oriented degree course abroad and since they would have signed a bond, they would have to return and join the DRDO. Give them a good pay and incentives, as also demotions for lacklustre approach.

Divide DRDO into a group solely for R&D like DARPA and those who are designing and producing prototypes.

Cut out unproductive expenditure like lavish guesthouse (I stayed in one), majestic buildings, air travel and so on.

 

[Hari Sud]

Post #149. Power_Monger

Your question is key to this discussion and not the DRDO bashing. Forum readers, here is your chance to throw your constructive opinions. There must be a way to resurrect DRDO. Some components of DRDO are doing well. Others are up for reorg. This is what probably up in PM Modi's mind. That is why he fired the DRDO head, three months back. His officials are probably working on an alternative. They will definitely value Forum opinions.

Kunal, Ray, Bhadra offer your opinions not for cross purposes but on constructive purposes.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It is clear as crystal as what @Hari Sud said, It just not DRDO but Army and IAF as well as OFB ..

At the same time, reinforced steps taken to make Pvt industry at same level in manufacturing capability as Gov`s ..

 

[Khagesh]

Army has only one real debit to it - Arjun. And then at the very least IA is good at the job it is meant to do. Being a technical visionary is not their main job. But IAF brass are simply aliens. It is the IA that does the grunt work civil engineering jobs for both IAF and IN. In a childishly proportionate world IAF and IN would have spend extra time and effort and in these energy sapping kind of work. IAF like the IN used this benefit of outsourcing grunt work but only IN used the extra helping hand that this affords to focus laser like on its requirements and getting its leadership to focus.

IA people can be crazy (brand conscious names dropping america pasand) but only after they have done the big job. While the most complex engineering tasks fall onto the IAF bucket their leadership still ambles along. Its more important for them to hunt for WW-2 era medals given by a foreign country to an Indian serving that foreign countries interests. Why cannot IAF listen to ACM Naik when he said that we should have ASAT capability just after the Chinese demoed their own ASAT capability. Today you find DRDO people saying we can build ASAT and testing can be done electronically. Can build - mind you - not saying working on it. Why? Well did anybody ask DRDO to? How many times did the current or the earlier ACM support what ACM Naik had said.

OTOH, DRDO is actually working on an Anti Ship missile of the DF-21 kind. Despite the fact that no IN leader ever mentioned something like a demand in public. Hell they just got the orders placed through proper channel. That's why.

Here are more tweets from defence correspondent and blogger Saurav Jha. You can guess what it suggests.

 

[Khagesh]

Here are more tweets from defence correspondent and blogger Saurav Jha.


Thanks @Bhadra for the explanation sounds cogent. With the MET spelt all capitals I was treating it as an abbreviation of 3 separate words. God only knows how many permutations and combinations I tried and how many google pages i turned. DRDO owes me explanation for this misrepresentation .

@Ray sir, Bharat Karnad is a big man. Moi only a chirkut. And I have kind of written some critical comments on his site on things I differed on - Will never understand him probably. I don't expect him to be as kind hearted as you. Discretion is always better part of valour .