DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Chinmoy]

I have been seeing that equipment for last 30 years lying some where rusted by the corner of a big open field.
No one uses that DODO marvel even for a practice.

You keep showing some more photos. That will keep us entertained...

Wow......... So intelligent. Kabhi kabhar dusro ke post bhi padh liya karo. Kad chota nahin ho jaata isse.

Old by very interesting pic. Wonder why we have not pursued it. Atleast we have not yet seen a modern version of the same.

I already mentioned that we had not pursued it. But why?

Just to import something later on?

 

[porky_kicker]

OKBM Afrikantov is involved with the PWC design. Malakit doesn't do reactors.

Malakit is the SSN and SSGN design house of Russia. Rubin focuses on SSK and SSBN.


What about the indigenous class of SSN? Has the construction of the first boat commenced?

Well I know that about afrikantov and assumed so regarding IN PWR , but my and your opinion versus a retd high ranking naval officer won't hold much water.

Possibly we are missing the context regarding malakit involvement with the PWR , doubt if afrikantov would be directly involved. There was lot of foreign pressure and Russians would not like to afrikantov get involved , however Rubin and malakit are pure military business so..........

 

[porky_kicker]

Coastal surveillance radar

 

[porky_kicker]

Later I will post the first exclusive pic of India's first land based mobile DEW system ( HPM - HIGH POWER MICROWAVE )

 

[Indx TechStyle]

How will we project power when we can't even secure our backyard?

How its related to our argument.

What if China builds a military base in Venezuela or Guinea... How do we target that without full range ICBMs?

Venezuela and Guinea aren't India's backyard. India has most of China in its immediate neighborhood.

Second, China will have to be mentally retarded to use those bases which are 10,000 kms away against India.

Third, that region is backyard of USN. USN is 3.5 times bigger than PLAN and 12 times bigger than IN. If you believe setting up a military base there and influencing US would be that easy.

Why China is bigger threat then west?

Because China supports Pak? well west does that too.
Because we fought war against China in 62? well we were almost on verge of nuke war with west in 71.
China doesn't want India to rise. so does west.

Now tell me how China is bigger evil?

We need to be prepared for both west and China.

China is in India's immediate neighborhood, West isn't.

China is openly hostile to India, West isn't. West wants India in its alliance and throws problems on India because India remains neutral.

For the long term perspective, China's potential threat is India. West too realizes its decline. So it keeps it relatively cool with India.
Back when West used to vehemently oppose India and USN even sent 7th fleet to attack India, they had developed a relatively better relationship with China.

Its "Global Range" makes it ultimate weapon. Sure we can put Chemical or bio warhead in it but that is another discussion.

There are lot of weapons developed and in development for global range.

ICBM is just a very basic long range unmannned ballistic vehicle.
There's no logic calling it ultimate weapon.

It doesn't change your status. North Korea will always continue to remain a small & weak individual country being used by Russia & China as proxy.

We never failed. Our politicians failed us.

These are our politicians that made the faces of once world's poorest country this arrogant now.

Politicians aren't scientists to make missiles. Nor we had any prior experience back then.

We could do it in 70's and 90's and could do it even today.

No, we couldn't. We tried but we didn't have any earlier experience. Our projects failed and we learnt from mistakes to improve tech.
You don't know about project valiant.

Its our coward politicians and delusional public still believing in Gnadhi-Nehru ideology.

India wouldn't even have been what it's today if it believed in Nehru-Gandhi ideology.
Nor India's current reluctance to test a global range ICBM has anything to do with Nehru-Gandhi. It's about taking care of interests digging more interests from west till India catches up in the league of USA, Russia and China.

We are a country who had ICBMs+MTWHs thousands of years ago when white men were living in caves. Today we are afraid of same white men.

No, we didn't. If we had, colonialism wouldn't have happened ever.

Total 5 are needed for deployment.

London, Washington, Moscow, Berlin, Paris

Why? We don't have any problem with them. Especially, Berlin and Paris.

We already cover London, Moscow, Paris and Berlin by the way.

Just token deployment to tell the world that we are not joking around.

World will say "WTF dude? We were just hanging out together and you came with a gun. You sure you haven't smoked something?"
Seriously, what you gonna try to tell US. Don't impose sanctions or we'll ICBMs? ICBMs for political, economic and diplomatic conflicts. Coz we didn't have any military hostility with west for long time. Nor we are heading to have in distant future.

Because they think unlike China we are weak and unable to attack their mainland. They are not afraid of us.

Their attitude is just not to make one more major enemy in East. If China has chose to be hostile, they would want India as an ally there.

This is why we don't get respect from west. Even NoKo has recently started getting more respect.

Which kind of respect?
NoKo is to West what Pakistan is to India.


Both believe that they are some sort of "arch rivals" of respective powers while they can't move a step without their masters.

To be a superpower we need global range plain and simple. This is why we need A-6.

Indeed, but we aren't a superpower and not even a true great power.
We are a second tier power like France, UK, Germany and Japan. We are growing fast to leave them well behind but a lot of room is left there to catch up with big three.


When India tests Agni-6, it should comply with India's other aspects of geolopolitical status as well. A6 won't change India's status. A6 will be a gem which will suite India when have that.

We are without global range weapon.

We chose to keep it low and not validate it for geopolitical issues. We aren't without it, we don't have anyone to hit with it.

Hypersonics will be short to medium range. Will be mostly used against ships, military installations, air defense, etc. please don't compare it with mighty global range ICBM.

No, hypersonic vehicles are mounted on initial stages of ballistic missiles and have a future of replacing re-entry vehicles on ballistic missiles.

You ever heard of American project "Prompt Global Strike"? Damn, you don't know anything.

Well they can't do it in Russia and China because they are invasion proof. However they can certainly do a regime change in India. I am sure somewhere in pentagon there is a plan to invade India as well. (They have all sorts of crazy plans)

Ghanta!! India is as invasion proof as Russia & China. If west could do a regime change in such a big country, they would've done decades ago because having India in complete favour will change equations of power in Indo-Pacific.


It's impossible for west to even fight around Indian coast. There's a reason why only elections make noise there and they write sh!t articles without us. They do just some petty sanctions and tariffs against India but can't do anything.

The point is we need to become invasion proof and unless we can build some sort of space nuke dropping weapon system our next best hope is ICBMs.

1. ICBM doesn't make you invasion proof. It makes you capable of invasion provided enemy doesn't have an advanced ABM system.
2. No country is capable of invading and defeating India except China today. Not even US & Russia.

US tried to Nuke China back in 50s during Korean war but because of China's friend a nuke power USSR stopped US from doing it. Only after this incident China started developing Nukes and ICBMs.

Exactly is happening in case of North Korea. It's nuclear umbrella. Difference is North Korea doesn't have a strategic depth unlike China and nukes can't save its existence.

We had similar incident in 70s but unlike China we didn't learn our lesson.

We tried to make nukes in 1974 and started developing ICBMs. But we neither had any foreign assistance, nor any prior experience unlike China which was helped by USSR and USA.

Because of Russia and China's ability to destroy mainland USA. Trust me if Russia and China didn't have nuke tipped ICBMs, USA would have finished them a long time ago.

Indeed, but Russia & China have much larger stockpiles and much more aspects of firepower and technology to finish USA.

ICBM is just 1% of their strength.

As if US president has any say in war.

News flash: US foreign policy is driven by deep state not president.

US President is very much capable of influencing any decision. He's the main executive and can veto anything by deep state in the end.

There's a disagreement between Trump & deep state ATM.

Enough to kill from a few hundred thousand to a few million.

Not more than a few thousands unless bombs a densely populated country like Bangladesh.

You should keep in mind that west highly values human life of their citizens and their expensive infrastructure. Even a threat to destroy one major city in mainland is enough to send shivers to west.

Exactly, that's why West isn't "shivering" but is left irritated just like we are irritated by suicidal doctrine of Pakistan. West hasn't developed any kind of "respect" here at least.

Our emphasis of human lives doesn't make North Korea or Pakistan "invasion proof".

Just because West is trying to avoid conflict to protect civilian lives, doesn't mean that west can't bury entire NoKo population alive within minutes.

Shaheen 3 can very well be turned into a demo SLV. Agni-5 can also be used as demo SLV but since we have full sized SLVs we don't need BM based SLV demo.

No, Shaheen doesn't have orbital velocity.
It's max. velocity is just some 60-70% of minimum required orbital speed (6.17 km/s against reqired 9.2 km/s) Shaheen can perform only suborbital flight of very small satellites.

You brought it up many times in our discussion. You suggested that ISRO's SLVs can be used as ICBMs.

I indicated about SSLV, not GSLV. And I mentioned the difference of erection time.

Missiles using solid fuel is obvious.

We need this system for ICBM's accuracy via mid-course correction.

This why I said A-6 program will be much more complex.

Not complex by standards of A5. Making it an equivalent of Minuteman will be complex.

ICBMs can be produced in large number in emergency???

Yes, everyone except North Korea. ICBMs have stocked standardized modules.

ICBMs and Nukes are tested and deployed during peacetime.

They are tested during "tensions", not absolute "peacetime".

If war breaks out against a major power there won't be anything left to build. We are not living in 40's where Hitler was making thousands of subs and planes during WW2

Countries can do it today. They just don't because of economic priorities and so that world doesn't panic.

Today's wars are much more lethal and much more swift. A few minutemens and all capabilities GONE.

But US isn't intelligent enough to immediately start a nuclear war to get bombed back with hundred more bombs from around the world. Fallout of MT nukes will kill entire population around the world.

Que: Which other nuke capable country doesn't have global range delivery system?

Ans: Pakistan.

Yup we are only 2 nuclear countries without global rage ICBMs/SLBMs.

Sorry but I don't want to see my great country in this pathetic club.

India has ICBM covering 5 out of 7 continents. Pakistan and North Korea are only 2 nuclear countries without nuclear subs, capabilities to build all kind of nuclear reactors.

Missiles they build aren't their own either. Their daddy China provided them with missiles with sufficient range to hit India and West.

It was CIA agent Gorbachev who destroyed USSR from within.

In that case, Mao too will be a CIA agent for massive Chinese famine he caused. Theses were red policies of USSR. When they ran out of cash, they tried to mix it with capitalism.

Otherwise USA had no chance against USSR.

Not in anyway. USSR was still well behind in most aspects. Wherever it was because of its size.

You want India to stoop at Pakistani level??? What a useless comparison.

We are a great power. We need great weapons. Case closed.

I'm just giving a logic. There are some aspects where India & Pakistan are comparable and a lot where they aren't.

It's you who has been shouting top to down asking India to do adopt suicidal deterrence models of NoKo and Pak where population is used as cannon fodder.

EU is a body of elected members from all European countries. There are no leaders in EU.

It was just like UN doesn't elect superpowers.

Its all about military and it always were that why.

Don't get brainwashed by nonsense western economic prosperity propaganda. Military might is the only might. Rest is time pass.

I don't have to open any western book to say that retaining military superiority is impossible withou economic prowess. Any sustained great power was economically strong.

The one who thinks otherwise is an uneducated idiot.

More western propaganda.

WTF is western inside it?
You can't do reasoning, continuously changing context as you lost it two times back, you don't know any damn thing and when I correct, you don't respond to them and in the end, you call it western propaganda.

Germany is a global power!!!!!

Germany isn't a global power, its regional superpower of world's richest and biggest continental supernational body.

you know economically Japan is better than Germany.

I know, Japan is more powerful than Germany in every aspect.


Obviously, India is better candidate than both Germany & Japan but I'm reasoning why Germany got it.

Heck even Singapore and S. Korea have better PC GDP compared to Germany.

But they are damn small countries. Australia with 25 millions population can never challenge India 1.37 billion. Power is a product of total GDP which in turn is a result of GDP per capita x population.

GDP per capita is only about efficiency.

Its only nonsense western white man elitist propaganda to include Germany (another white country) into white man's club.

There were lot other white countries, why not them?

All western economies are overrated and only reason it is strong because of inflated value of their fake currency which is protected by their military might. Why do you think west wants full control of all oil producing countries? Why does west controls all sea lanes?

So? Both military and economy become mutually dependent too.

Being a major military power is impossible without economic prowess while a major military power will further try to bend word for more economic prosperity.

Oh you are so naive about western fiat currency based economies.

I know much much more about them than you would imagine. You are just citing words you crammed here.

Mark my words: The day western military takes second seat that day western public will be begging BEEKH in Asian countries.

They won't anytime soon. Europe will be left as a group of rich & isolated countries who will be divided in alliances of western and eastern powers.

Only US is going to sustain itself as a major power for long time and no other western country.

Do we have a seat in NSG?

We have waiver. Why changing context now?

Do we have unrestricted and unquestioned access to yellow cake?

We have relatively less restricted. We have most perks what NSG members got. And we sign a lot of bilateral nuclear agreements to buy from raw materials to technology from various countries.

Bunch of international observers poking their nose into our reactors.

They got to see reactors what we want. We don't wish to nukes from entire fissile materials as they will automatically expired with time if not used.

We produce material as much as we need. Being independent of fossil fuels will itself be a great strategic victory of India.

Yes it is. In India we have enormous Solar potential. Not to mention abundance of desi coal.

No, its true that India's solar power is growing at enormous pace. But still not enough. Just what India's installed solar capacity is, how much energy India consumes annually and what are the targets of solar energy of India.

Solar energy can't run the country India unless India reaches Kardashev scale 2.

There is absolutely no need to use uranium for energy.

No, Uranium isn't needed in bombs. We don't make HEU based tactical nukes.

We have more advanced Plutonum based stuff which is more suitable for strategic thermonuclear weapons.

We have 28% of world's thorum and our FBR can convert into Plutonium.

Do you know how many centrifuges we have and how much time it takes to enrich from our current capacity?
No, We can't produce large number of nukes instantly.

I know, we can add at least a 1,000 nukes annually if we choose to. Case is different that's a total waste we don't need to.

Farsightedness is getting ready for future.

Farsightedness is for that's going to happen. A nuclear armageddon on planet is highly unlikely except with few countries like Pakistan and North Korea.

You are talking not because you care about any future but because you are a fanboy with inferiority complex that you think being against west is a cool thing. Admit it.

 

[Tanmay]

When I found the pic first , there was no description of any sort , so easy to mistake it for jamming system etc.

View attachment 36035

But then there was the distinct sectoral horn antennas which led me to believe that it was a HPM based DEW system. Presence of a laser range finder which I recognised as BELs confirmed it further. Plus other optics are also seen.

On a whim i decided to dig around and found a paragraph from drdo annual 2017 report describing this

" MTRDC has taken up a project to develop
a HPM system that can generate 500 MW of RF power in S-band which will be affecting drones at a distance of 5 km. During the year PDR of 100 Hz pulse power system has been completed. Design of relativistic BWO is being finalised. Design of Horn antenna with gain of 20 dB has been completed. Vulnerability studies on UAV electronics are being carried out. "

View attachment 36036

So very good possibility it is the same HPM DEW rated at peak 500MW with a range of 5km. Basically it will be able to disable UAVs , cruise missiles etc within its effective range and provided radiated power is enough to burn through hardened electronics of MIL grade UAVs and cruise missiles etc .

Also I kind of over reacted initially when I stated that it is a strategic system .

I thought it was a strategic system because I failed to note initially that the whole setup was mounted on a mast. A very powerful HPM system can never be mounted on a mast , as the corresponding HPM generation and transmission setup will be quite humongous in size and dimension.

Anyways this HPM DEW system is as per my opinion more of a tactical system. At 5 km range it has a very good capability given that it's the first product in its line. Very few countries have this capability.

View attachment 36037

Hope DRDO scales it up further and develops a strategic level HPM system both in terms of range and power.

As always reader discretion is advised , I can't be held responsible for incorrect info etc

Me thinks that the 5 Km range is probably for killing small quadcopter sized drones- the DJI phantom type drones. Not the bigger UAVs. Remeber the attack on Russian SAMs by swarm UAVs?

https://www.sciencealert.com/swarm-...e-military-base-first-attack-kind-russia-uavs

So this system might be for drones operating in 2.4GHz/5GHz band used by hobbyists. They dont operate beyond a few hundred meters. So 5km range is apt.

 

[binayak95]

A ship's maximum speed without harming the engine is 50kmph, though theoretically it can go till 60kmph. In addition, Ships need 15times the length if itself to come to a halt from a speed of 30kmph. If the speed is high as in 50kmph, distance to stop will increase proportionally. A medium sized cargo ship has length of 150 metres. This means, it can't stop before 2.25km if it is at 30kmph speed and before 4km if it is at 50kmph speed.

The ships have to maneuver through many obstacles like fishing boats, islands, reefs and narrow canals like Malacca or Hormuz straits which will make it impossible to go at speeds of even 30kmph at these areas of the ocean. This means the ships have very limited ability to move from one place to another quickly.

Even at top speed of 50kmph, to cover 2000km (distance from India to Gulf region), it will take 40 hours. If we add delay from other normal obstacles like fishing boats and merchant vessels, it will be 45 hours. In addition, during war, navies will lay mines. This will make things far worse and drastically reduce speed of travelling.

There is simply no way anyone can supply from a distance of over 2000km. Even 1500km will be a stretch. If there are no logistics base within 1500km, the naval assets will just be expensive targets.

You have pulled such BULLSHIT out of your ass, its beyond hilarious.

Fucking WWII Leningrad class destroyers of the Soviet Navy did 80-90 kmph.

Iowa class Battleships did 62 kmph! And 15 times its length? !

Ever heard of reverse thrusters? On C17s? The concept here is the same, except all that happens is reversible props.

Never seen a Nimitz class carrier drift, I suppose.

No way anyone can supply from distance of 2000km

Mediterranenan convoys (from Gibraltar to Alexandria)? Arctic Convoys from Greenland waters and UK waters to Russian ports?

Cross Atlantic convoys from Canada and US to the UK?

All WWII of course.. and these convoys kept entire countries equipped with the warfighting resources and food, and oil, and basically everything?

Fucking nuts

 

[aarav]

When I found the pic first , there was no description of any sort , so easy to mistake it for jamming system etc.

View attachment 36035

But then there was the distinct sectoral horn antennas which led me to believe that it was a HPM based DEW system. Presence of a laser range finder which I recognised as BELs confirmed it further. Plus other optics are also seen.

On a whim i decided to dig around and found a paragraph from drdo annual 2017 report describing this

" MTRDC has taken up a project to develop
a HPM system that can generate 500 MW of RF power in S-band which will be affecting drones at a distance of 5 km. During the year PDR of 100 Hz pulse power system has been completed. Design of relativistic BWO is being finalised. Design of Horn antenna with gain of 20 dB has been completed. Vulnerability studies on UAV electronics are being carried out. "

View attachment 36036

So very good possibility it is the same HPM DEW rated at peak 500MW with a range of 5km. Basically it will be able to disable UAVs , cruise missiles etc within its effective range and provided radiated power is enough to burn through hardened electronics of MIL grade UAVs and cruise missiles etc .

Also I kind of over reacted initially when I stated that it is a strategic system .

I thought it was a strategic system because I failed to note initially that the whole setup was mounted on a mast. A very powerful HPM system can never be mounted on a mast , as the corresponding HPM generation and transmission setup will be quite humongous in size and dimension.

Anyways this HPM DEW system is as per my opinion more of a tactical system. At 5 km range it has a very good capability given that it's the first product in its line. Very few countries have this capability.

View attachment 36037

Hope DRDO scales it up further and develops a strategic level HPM system both in terms of range and power.

As always reader discretion is advised , I can't be held responsible for incorrect info etc

Dude you really bring exclusive stuff , this DEW is good for soft kill of drones ,we only heard speculations of Kali & stuff ,hope it's all true

 

[Vijyes]

You have pulled such BULLSHIT out of your ass, its beyond hilarious.

Fucking WWII Leningrad class destroyers of the Soviet Navy did 80-90 kmph.

Iowa class Battleships did 62 kmph

I am speaking of cargo ships. I know that fast craft vehicles etc can travel fast. But if the ship has to carry good amount of cargo, it has to have a flatter design and has to ho slower. Show me a cargo ship, either merchant Navy or Navy that has speeds over 60kmph.

The fast vehicles are having a trade off in terms of weight per volume that can be carried and stability. The Leningrad class ships had lot of stability issues, for example. These kind of fast ships are discontinued today.

62kmph comes in the range if 60kmph with rounding off! It is really funny that you are disputing me with such details!

And 15 times its length? !

Ever heard of reverse thrusters? On C17s? The concept here is the same, except all that happens is reversible props.

Never seen a Nimitz class carrier drift, I suppose.

I took this 15 times the length from Merchant Navy personnel. He told me that safe distance is 15 times that of the ship. Yes, I know of reverse thrusters too. Again, I am talking of cargo vessel as the topic is about resupplying the naval ship.

Nimitz or other navy ships can stop and maneuver much faster as they are designed for maneuverability. But cargo ships are meant to carry maximum load and hence aren't designed for maneuverability.

Mediterranenan convoys (from Gibraltar to Alexandria)? Arctic Convoys from Greenland waters and UK waters to Russian ports?

Cross Atlantic convoys from Canada and US to the UK?

All WWII of course.. and these convoys kept entire countries equipped with the warfighting resources and food, and oil, and basically everything?

Citing example of how WW2 Atlantic was supplied by ships is absurd as there was no enemy bases mid way the ship routes. The ships carefully avoided going to Germany waters and only supplied in safe routes. Similarly, USA could not uproot Japan in Indochina region using ships in the same WW2. Why couldn't USA do the same supply magic in Indochina area as it did in Atlantic? Yeah, you guessed it right. The Atlantic area had either neutral countries or friendly countries and was out of Germany's reach.

My claim was that 2000km supply in HOSTILE waters is impossible, not any random 2000km supply route was impossible. The South China Sea in WW2 was hostile, not Atlantic. So, you can dispute me by giving examples of WW2 of South China sea logistics, not Atlantic

Falkland dispute was on an island about 600km from Argentina and Argentina had poor navy and logistics to supply that far. In addition, British had Ascension island nearby as base which helped in logistics. Unlike your claim, British didn't supply all the way from UK. British instead set up base in Ascension island and then attacked Falklands.

Moreover, when I am speaking of current context where missile and mines are part of the war, the land bases have become compulsory. I don't understand how stupid can you be in claiming that supply of over 2000km in hostile waters during war ia practical. It is possible only in neutral waters to supply that far. Else, it is gone case.

 

[binayak95]

I am speaking of cargo ships. I know that fast craft vehicles etc can travel fast. But if the ship has to carry good amount of cargo, it has to have a flatter design and has to ho slower. Show me a cargo ship, either merchant Navy or Navy that has speeds over 60kmph.

The fast vehicles are having a trade off in terms of weight per volume that can be carried and stability. The Leningrad class ships had lot of stability issues, for example. These kind of fast ships are discontinued today.

62kmph comes in the range if 60kmph with rounding off! It is really funny that you are disputing me with such details!


I took this 15 times the length from Merchant Navy personnel. He told me that safe distance is 15 times that of the ship. Yes, I know of reverse thrusters too. Again, I am talking of cargo vessel as the topic is about resupplying the naval ship.

Nimitz or other navy ships can stop and maneuver much faster as they are designed for maneuverability. But cargo ships are meant to carry maximum load and hence aren't designed for maneuverability.



Citing example of how WW2 Atlantic was supplied by ships is absurd as there was no enemy bases mid way the ship routes. The ships carefully avoided going to Germany waters and only supplied in safe routes. Similarly, USA could not uproot Japan in Indochina region using ships in the same WW2. Why couldn't USA do the same supply magic in Indochina area as it did in Atlantic? Yeah, you guessed it right. The Atlantic area had either neutral countries or friendly countries and was out of Germany's reach.

My claim was that 2000km supply in HOSTILE waters is impossible, not any random 2000km supply route was impossible. The South China Sea in WW2 was hostile, not Atlantic. So, you can dispute me by giving examples of WW2 of South China sea logistics, not Atlantic

Falkland dispute was on an island about 600km from Argentina and Argentina had poor navy and logistics to supply that far. In addition, British had Ascension island nearby as base which helped in logistics. Unlike your claim, British didn't supply all the way from UK. British instead set up base in Ascension island and then attacked Falklands.

Moreover, when I am speaking of current context where missile and mines are part of the war, the land bases have become compulsory. I don't understand how stupid can you be in claiming that supply of over 2000km in hostile waters during war ia practical. It is possible only in neutral waters to supply that far. Else, it is gone case.

Cargo ships are different, arent they - dont make general statments as "ships"

About supplying through hostile territories - the Kriegsmarine sank 17 out of 21 ships bound for Russia in PQ17 convoy. Hostile enough for you?

The Arctic route to Murmansk was a gauntlet of Ju87 Stukas and Ju88 bombers, and Uboats and the German surface raiders, all operating from Netherlands and Denmark.

Mediterranean theatre was even more dangerous, the entire Northern Mediterranean coast (France, Germany and Italy) were all Axis territory. The Luftwaffe and Italian air forces, the Regina Marina and the Kreigsmarine - and as a result, convoys suffered heavily.

And as far the Atlantic being out of German reach - the fast HX convoys, timed and with ships that could keep up with their fast DD escorts, even these HX convoys lost a total of 206 ships.

So much for being out of reach.

If you dont know military history, dont sput nonsense - the Atlantic was also the theatre that had the Black Gap near Greenland - a region beyond the reach of ASW aircraft - and thus saw the loss of major surface combatants.

Moving to the Pacific, Japan's success and scything cut through the Pacific-IOR area IS validation of the ability of a navy to operate successfully in hostile territory. They captured Java and the Phillipines - home territories for the US and British Navies.. operated even in the IOR, raiding Trincomalee, sinking the first Hermes carrier.

And US countered that by defeating the IJN in a exact reversal, beginning with the disastrous Java sea, then Coral Sea, the defense of Midway (turning point) and then poweful fleets built around the Essex class smashed the Kido Butai in the battles of Phillipines Sea, Suriago Strait and off Samar.

Navies can operate in hostile conditions, and take massive losses, and even them, adapt and emerge triumphant. that is the nature of warfare.

In WWII, naval airpower and submarines were a brand new phenomenon - no one truly understood carrier airstrikes even after the Raid of Taranto, where rickety biplanes sank half the Italian fleet. It took a disaster on the scale of Pearl Harbor for people to wake up and Midway rammed the message home.
Navies world over understood and adapted - better AA weapons, better air bursting 127 and 155 mm ammo, better engines for carrier borne fighters to neutralise the Zeke.

Today, the threat is not nearly as asymmetric - missiles are a well known and well documented threat, counters already exist - any major kinetic engagement will simply see counters become better - and convoys will ply on.

 

[ezsasa]

Have we done any discussion comparative analysis of cost of a ingenious system and its equivalent foreign option?

For smaller systems not big ones like aircraft and ships...

Any info on what is the price difference between pinaka and equivalent system from outside?

Basically I am trying to find out whether there is a reduction in capex.

 

[Vijyes]

About supplying through hostile territories - the Kriegsmarine sank 17 out of 21 ships bound for Russia in PQ17 convoy. Hostile enough for you?

The Arctic route to Murmansk was a gauntlet of Ju87 Stukas and Ju88 bombers, and Uboats and the German surface raiders, all operating from Netherlands and Denmark.

Mediterranean theatre was even more dangerous, the entire Northern Mediterranean coast (France, Germany and Italy) were all Axis territory. The Luftwaffe and Italian air forces, the Regina Marina and the Kreigsmarine - and as a result, convoys suffered heavily.

And as far the Atlantic being out of German reach - the fast HX convoys, timed and with ships that could keep up with their fast DD escorts, even these HX convoys lost a total of 206 ships.

So much for being out of reach.

If you dont know military history, dont sput nonsense - the Atlantic was also the theatre that had the Black Gap near Greenland - a region beyond the reach of ASW aircraft - and thus saw the loss of major surface combatants.

I don't deny that u boats and fast vessels of Germany intercepted shipping vessels in Atlantic. But it is a fact that the Atlantic route had Germany east of UK which have UK advantage in the westward route to USA. Also, Greenland was fighting alongside USA and hence helped secure shipping route. Germany was cut off in most cases by British channel blockade. The leading base in the route was fully with allies. Germany could only sneak to do some attacks but was never major threat.

Mediterranean was a massacre for allies. Egypt and middle eastern region of Syria, Malta etc were with allies. So, the influence of Italy and Germany were reduced at the eastern flank. But still, Britain had to use the route across Africa most of the time due to pressure in western Mediterranean.

The battle Mediterranean was already brutal. Now imagine how it would be if UK had no control over Malta, Egypt, Syria & middle east? That would have been a complete massacre of allied shipping in Mediterranean. This is what i mean by hostile waters.

Moving to the Pacific, Japan's success and scything cut through the Pacific-IOR area IS validation of the ability of a navy to operate successfully in hostile territory. They captured Java and the Phillipines - home territories for the US and British Navies.. operated even in the IOR, raiding Trincomalee, sinking the first Hermes carrier.

And US countered that by defeating the IJN in a exact reversal, beginning with the disastrous Java sea, then Coral Sea, the defense of Midway (turning point) and then poweful fleets built around the Essex class smashed the Kido Butai in the battles of Phillipines Sea, Suriago Strait and off Samar.

Navies can operate in hostile conditions, and take massive losses, and even them, adapt and emerge triumphant. that is the nature of warfare.

In WWII, naval airpower and submarines were a brand new phenomenon - no one truly understood carrier airstrikes even after the Raid of Taranto, where rickety biplanes sank half the Italian fleet. It took a disaster on the scale of Pearl Harbor for people to wake up and Midway rammed the message home.
Navies world over understood and adapted - better AA weapons, better air bursting 127 and 155 mm ammo, better engines for carrier borne fighters to neutralise the Zeke.

Actually, South China sea warfare was won by Japan due to logistics being closer. The people of Myanmar, Indonesia, Malaysia etc also favoured Japanese as liberators. In addition, Dutch were conquered by Germany and hence the colonial control on Indonesia was lost. The USA logistical lines were far from Philippines as USA had not anticipated Japanese attack and hadn't readied the Philippines base.

Again,the logistics is what made Japan lose in IOR. As IJN came to IOR, British had started to manufacture arms in India itself by developing industrial base and hence obtained strong logistics to fight Japan. This eventually led Britain to regain lost territory near Indian Ocean Region. The allies started attacking the oil fields and oil supply infrastructure from all sides in the Indochina and Pacific region which crippled Japan logistics. Japan was unable to cut enormous oil supply from USA to allies. This logistical advantage of allies in terms of massive oil supply and production of arms in India along with cutting Japanese oil supply led to Allied victory.

Today, the threat is not nearly as asymmetric - missiles are a well known and well documented threat, counters already exist - any major kinetic engagement will simply see counters become better - and convoys will ply on.

The problem with counters is that missiles are 1000 times cheaper than a ship. So, counters won't be as effective as one hopes. Similarly, a plane is much cheaper than a ship and hence aerial engagement with a ship by planes near the enemy shores can make it quickly run out of air defence munitions and eventually be vulnerable.

The closer one is to logistical base, the higher number of ammunition that side will be able to use and dominate the war. The supply ships may ply on hostile waters but the chances of success will be minimised. We don't need 100% supply to be cut. Even 80% supply being cut off is good enough to cripple war efforts

 

[porky_kicker]

It seems other systems are in development , I will post their pics later.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Does DRDO share its tech with private Firms?

Suppose DRDO has made a new kind of material that provides better protection from bullets, can a comapny buy tender to mass produce this BPJ?

 

[sorcerer]

Does DRDO share its tech with private Firms?

Suppose DRDO has made a new kind of material that provides better protection from bullets, can a comapny buy tender to mass produce this BPJ?

They do license the technology to private firms.

 

[Vijyes]

Does DRDO share its tech with private Firms?

Suppose DRDO has made a new kind of material that provides better protection from bullets, can a comapny buy tender to mass produce this BPJ?

That will depend on government to give Technology transfer to private industry. Many items like Lithium ion battery ( by ISRO), Missile radome, Brahmos seeker, Missile parts Technology (for example VEM) have been given to private industry. So, DRDO can give Technology to private industry. But government decides the condition and rules

 

[porky_kicker]

Dude you really bring exclusive stuff , this DEW is good for soft kill of drones ,we only heard speculations of Kali & stuff ,hope it's all true

Me thinks that the 5 Km range is probably for killing small quadcopter sized drones- the DJI phantom type drones. Not the bigger UAVs. Remeber the attack on Russian SAMs by swarm UAVs?

https://www.sciencealert.com/swarm-...e-military-base-first-attack-kind-russia-uavs

So this system might be for drones operating in 2.4GHz/5GHz band used by hobbyists. They dont operate beyond a few hundred meters. So 5km range is apt.

Seriously bros what makes you think this system is for countering commercial drones ? Not that it is not needed.

500MW power is a joke or what ?

For comparison Russian Ranets E is also a 500MW HPM weapon system though it operates in X band and it's pulse rate , gain etc is different ( higher ).

DRDO system is more compact though at the penalty of range , field strength however operational parameters is dictated by multiple design factors / requirements / constraints.

The drdo system is for bringing down MIL grade UAVs with EM hardened systems. It will be able to act against cruise missiles and PGMs too. Too little info regarding its capabilities at the moment. Unless one knows the parameters like field strength , gain , pulse repetition frequency etc it's best not to speculate what it's capabilities are.

The fact that in their first attempt they managed to get 5km range is noteworthy given the difficulties with the phenomenon of " atmospheric breakdown "

Also BARC and DRDO is working on " phase locking " if they succeed then there is no limit to range and output power of a HPM DEW system ( theoretically atleast ).

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

Venezuela and Guinea aren't India's backyard. India has most of China in its immediate neighborhood.

China is now a global power soon they will have bases in remote location outside Indian missile range where they will deploy subs and bombers even ICBMs (like Russians did in Cuba) We need range and power to take care of this growing threat.

Second, China will have to be mentally retarded to use those bases which are 10,000 kms away against India.

Third, that region is backyard of USN. USN is 3.5 times bigger than PLAN and 12 times bigger than IN. If you believe setting up a military base there and influencing US would be that easy.

You don't understand threat perception and preparedness doctrine.

West wants India in its alliance and throws problems on India because India remains neutral.

For the long term perspective, China's potential threat is India. West too realizes its decline. So it keeps it relatively cool with India.
Back when West used to vehemently oppose India and USN even sent 7th fleet to attack India, they had developed a relatively better relationship with China.

More western propaganda.

There are lot of weapons developed and in development for global range.

Such as......

ICBM is just a very basic long range unmannned ballistic vehicle.
There's no logic calling it ultimate weapon.

I am curious to know that according to you which other weapon is mightier then one that can deliver most powerful warhead in the history of humanity anywhere on planet earth?

till India catches up in the league of USA, Russia and China.

League of Russia??? you mean like having $1.5 trillion economy or having talent to re-paint old soviet weapons.
US and China I understand but Russia?!!!

If it wasn't for oil exports and old USSR's defense legacy, Putin would be be begging for money from IMF just like Imran Khan.

No, we didn't. If we had, colonialism wouldn't have happened ever.

We had that tech thousands and thousands of years ago. Our ancestors for some reasons destroyed the weapons and all capabilities to develop it. Maybe for world peace.

Very few manuscript survived which were kept in remote monastery of Himalayan states like in Nepal in Tibet and even in Antarctica (yes our ancestors had access to Antarctica). Hitler when he knew about it sent multiple teams of Nazis to recover these manuscripts which became basis of his weapons. After WW2, USA and USSR took Nazi scientists for further research in advance technologies. This is how they developed ICBMs, Nukes, Jets, Stealth, Microchips, etc. Its all our technology but of course you and likes of yours who are knee deep in western propaganda thinks that white man has some magic brain who developed everything out of thin air.

World will say....

There is a proverb in south. When elephant walks dogs bark, nothing changes.

Indeed, but we aren't a superpower and not even a true great power.

We are a great power. We have capabilities to put our imprint in history. Our culture and religion are spiritual guides to the world. We hold absolute control over an entire ocean. We are also invested heavily in future frontiers like space.

The only thing that didn't favor us until recently was our economy but that too has grown and very well going to become $5 trillion soon and reach $10 trillion mark afterwards.

What else does it take to be a true great power?

We are a second tier power like France, UK, Germany and Japan.

This is pure inferiority complex that has stemmed from too much western propaganda intake.

Countries you mentioned above are nothing without free tech-accesses and major economic favors from their master USA.

We achieved whatever we have on our own. In the face of constant hostilities from world. We are not a second tier bootlickers but a self sufficient power in our own right.

No, hypersonic vehicles are mounted on initial stages of ballistic missiles and have a future of replacing re-entry vehicles on ballistic missiles.

You are confusing terminal stage hypersonic to full all the way hypersonic missiles. FYI India is working on the later.

No country is capable of invading and defeating India except China today.

I am sure you haven't heard about difficulties of mountain warfare on Himalayas from Tibetan side and our capabilities to chock malacca strait. Yeah..sure... China can invade and defeat India right.. right... Have you been reading too much on PDF lately.

Indeed, but Russia & China have much larger stockpiles and much more aspects of firepower and technology to finish USA.

Russia and China can finish USA...

Not more than a few thousands unless bombs a densely populated country like Bangladesh.

Why would NoKo nuke BD???

Just because West is trying to avoid conflict to protect civilian lives, doesn't mean that west can't bury entire NoKo population alive within minutes.

Please read The Art of War by Sun Tzu.

No, Shaheen doesn't have orbital velocity.
It's max. velocity is just some 60-70% of minimum required orbital speed (6.17 km/s against reqired 9.2 km/s) Shaheen can perform only suborbital flight of very small satellites.

With 50kg sat on board and all composite faring+upper can make Shaheen 3 very well capable of placing a demo sat in lower LEO.

Countries can do it today. They just don't because of economic priorities and so that world doesn't panic.

I don't think you understand complexity of modern defense weapons. Let me try...

Do you know modern planes, subs etc. have lakhs of small components sourced from hundreds of industries both domestic and across the world. Even disruption of one source means we can't make it. In modern war any and all defense related establishments will be first ones to take hits or suffer blockages.

So no we can't make thousands of subs and planes during the war (WW2 style ) against a mighty power.

Germany isn't a global power,

I know, Japan is more powerful than Germany in every aspect.

You are the one who brought Germany into discussion. You called Germany a P5 equal.

Being a major military power is impossible without economic prowess while a major military power will further try to bend word for more economic prosperity.

Anyways thank you for proving my point.

I know much much more about them than you would imagine.

Solar energy can't run the country India unless India reaches Kardashev scale 2.

Before we delve in the realm of hardcore science fiction of Kardashev scale, let me tell you that solar panels exist and we have many large scale solar farms operational that provide energy to millions of Indians. We are scaling up the capabilities and we will be leading solar power generating country in the world.

No, Uranium isn't needed in bombs. We don't make HEU based tactical nukes.

We have more advanced Plutonum based stuff which is more suitable for strategic thermonuclear weapons.

And where do you think plutonium comes from???? Spoiler: "It requires Uranium"

I know, we can add at least a 1,000 nukes annually if we choose to.

If you only knew how much Yellow cake is needed for 1 gram of U-235 and how much U-235 is needed for 1 gram of plutonium then you would see absurdity of your 1,000 nukes per year argument.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

When I found the pic first , there was no description of any sort , so easy to mistake it for jamming system etc.

View attachment 36035

But then there was the distinct sectoral horn antennas which led me to believe that it was a HPM based DEW system. Presence of a laser range finder which I recognised as BELs confirmed it further. Plus other optics are also seen.

On a whim i decided to dig around and found a paragraph from drdo annual 2017 report describing this

" MTRDC has taken up a project to develop
a HPM system that can generate 500 MW of RF power in S-band which will be affecting drones at a distance of 5 km. During the year PDR of 100 Hz pulse power system has been completed. Design of relativistic BWO is being finalised. Design of Horn antenna with gain of 20 dB has been completed. Vulnerability studies on UAV electronics are being carried out. "

View attachment 36036

So very good possibility it is the same HPM DEW rated at peak 500MW with a range of 5km. Basically it will be able to disable UAVs , cruise missiles etc within its effective range and provided radiated power is enough to burn through hardened electronics of MIL grade UAVs and cruise missiles etc .

Also I kind of over reacted initially when I stated that it is a strategic system .

I thought it was a strategic system because I failed to note initially that the whole setup was mounted on a mast. A very powerful HPM system can never be mounted on a mast , as the corresponding HPM generation and transmission setup will be quite humongous in size and dimension.

Anyways this HPM DEW system is as per my opinion more of a tactical system. At 5 km range it has a very good capability given that it's the first product in its line. Very few countries have this capability.

View attachment 36037

Hope DRDO scales it up further and develops a strategic level HPM system both in terms of range and power.

As always reader discretion is advised , I can't be held responsible for incorrect info etc

5.........500MW on that truck.
How is it possible sirji?

 

[Bhadra]

Wow......... So intelligent. Kabhi kabhar dusro ke post bhi padh liya karo. Kad chota nahin ho jaata isse.

Ok Parh Loonga......:biggrin2:

I already mentioned that we had not pursued it. But why?

Just to import something later on?

Not that something was imported to do that job unless you mean fuel air explosive.