DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Bleh]

Do not express any unbiased opinion about ATHOS in the forum..

Many take that as an attempt in taking away their "Gaddi" or "Thiya" from Harishchandra Ghat of Varanasi.

Then they will start what they are best at - Cuss, curse and give you Shraap.

They are typical Congress type gang who start shouting "Chor Hai"... just at the drop of the hat.

Nah.. others are young enough to have live braincells.

If anybody noticed, ATAGS resembles M46, the most numerous Russian origin gun in Indian army.
I guess proving ATAGS will take quite some time. Obviously 10 guns will be tried by Army for an extended period of time.

Till then Dhanush and ATHOS will roll out in numbers.

It would be perfectly understandable if ATHOS was being bought in limited numbers to cater to the needs of the mountain divisions & strike corps, operating where the weight of the gun is a deciding factor due to infrastructure......... ifffffff the 39km ranged 155×45 Dhanush wasn't lighter at 12t, matching (& in near future, outclassing) the phoren 155×52 ATHOS weighing 14t has range of 41km.

Right now there are no logical explanations other than someone in Elbit paid someone in Indian Army and/or MOD from below the tables.

 

[Bhadra]

ATAGS: Artillery’s Indigenous Trail blazer
https://bharatshakti.in/atags-artillerys-indigenous-trail-blazer/

.........................................
ATAGS’ new threshold in terms of its superior technology and performance parameters will give the user a capability in impacting strategic and tactical battle situations far in excess of its conventional counterparts among the towed Guns, by its significantly enhanced capabilities.The system’s advantages hinge on enhanced range of 45 km on base bleed ammunition and 35 km on BT ammunition, a rate of fire of five rounds in 30 seconds compared to three rounds, accuracy of 0.6% as compared to over 1%, addition of an electric drive to replace the erstwhile hydraulic drive, and self-propelled speeds of 18 km giving this system a phenomenal edge over other towed guns.
........................................
While traditionally, weight has never been a criterion for development of new guns, the weight parameters in Preliminary Specifications Qualitative Requirements (PSQR) appear out of sync with the performance Qualitative Requirement of 45 km range, higher consistency, accuracy and rates of fire, and a self-propelled capability of 18 km/hr. The review of the PSQR of this system presently underway is likely to address this aspect appropriately. The gun is likely to complete user assisted technical trials followed by user trials in a span of 6 to 8 months.

.......................................

Challenges on India’s borders have escalated over the years and the situation is escalating towards the probability of potential conflict like situations. India’s military modernization on the other hand has been sluggish and steeped in a quagmire of competitions, scams and legal issues leading to situations calling for cancellation of processes and restarts. Any tampering of the modernization pace and priorities set out in the revived programme will scuttle the schedule drastically, apart from being hounded by agencies that prefer the Buy and Make option over indigenous production, despite creation of a colossal capacity in this direction.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

ATAGS: Artillery’s Indigenous Trail blazer
https://bharatshakti.in/atags-artillerys-indigenous-trail-blazer/

.........................................
ATAGS’ new threshold in terms of its superior technology and performance parameters will give the user a capability in impacting strategic and tactical battle situations far in excess of its conventional counterparts among the towed Guns, by its significantly enhanced capabilities.The system’s advantages hinge on enhanced range of 45 km on base bleed ammunition and 35 km on BT ammunition, a rate of fire of five rounds in 30 seconds compared to three rounds, accuracy of 0.6% as compared to over 1%, addition of an electric drive to replace the erstwhile hydraulic drive, and self-propelled speeds of 18 km giving this system a phenomenal edge over other towed guns.
........................................
While traditionally, weight has never been a criterion for development of new guns, the weight parameters in Preliminary Specifications Qualitative Requirements (PSQR) appear out of sync with the performance Qualitative Requirement of 45 km range, higher consistency, accuracy and rates of fire, and a self-propelled capability of 18 km/hr. The review of the PSQR of this system presently underway is likely to address this aspect appropriately. The gun is likely to complete user assisted technical trials followed by user trials in a span of 6 to 8 months.

.......................................

Challenges on India’s borders have escalated over the years and the situation is escalating towards the probability of potential conflict like situations. India’s military modernization on the other hand has been sluggish and steeped in a quagmire of competitions, scams and legal issues leading to situations calling for cancellation of processes and restarts. Any tampering of the modernization pace and priorities set out in the revived programme will scuttle the schedule drastically, apart from being hounded by agencies that prefer the Buy and Make option over indigenous production, despite creation of a colossal capacity in this direction.

Ye kya mazak hai bhai.
Mujhe toh 60 km ke range ki slide dikha diya tha raat ko.
Ab 45 km range mein aagaya hai ye requirement.
Kaun sa SAHI hai?

 

[Bhadra]

Right now there are no logical explanations other than someone in Elbit paid someone in Indian Army and/or MOD from below the tables.

You proved me right ... Rahul Gandhi bimari - "Chor Hai" ...

Zero in his profession but 175 per cent fit to be defence minister ...

 

[Bleh]

I will be very happy if there is a source of this 14 ton, I am trying to find it in net and everywhere else not able to find this 14 ton.
Please can you provide this with us.

Can't find Elbit's official on it right now, this says 13t.
http://survincity.com/2012/07/autonomous-towed-howitzer-athos-2052/

But i read 14t earlier after the thing was announced.

Ye kya mazak hai bhai.
Mujhe toh 60 km ke range ki slide dikha diya tha raat ko.
Ab 45 km range mein aagaya hai ye requirement.
Kaun sa SAHI hai?

±60km was required to be max achievable from hill-top, against target at lower altitude.

You proved me right ... Rahul Gandhi bimari - "Chor Hai" ...

Zero in his profession but 175 per cent fit to be defence minister ...

On the contrary, everyone else have been presenting their reasonings, except you (& Rahul Gandhi) the only one that can't process & deliver arguments or explanations.

Use facts, not farts (metaphorically).

 

[Bhadra]

Ye kya mazak hai bhai.
Mujhe toh 60 km ke range ki slide dikha diya tha raat ko.
Ab 45 km range mein aagaya hai ye requirement.
Kaun sa SAHI hai?

Kis ko Chahiye 60 km ? kyon chahiye 60 km.

What is of tactical / operational significance located at 60 km inside enemy territory? How would one acquire that target? How would one correct that fire? How would damage assessment be done at 60 km? Balakot was barely 30 km from border.
Then what are those rocket artillery ment for ? Guns and rockets have different employment philosophies ? Guns require a precise and specific target.

Unless it is the Gunner himself who wants to fire 30 km inside enemy area while remaining very safe 30 km inside own border. having Rum with warm water while firing.!!
Funny it may appear.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

±60km was required to be max achievable from hill-top, against target at lower altitude.

On the contrary, everyone else have been presenting their reasonings, except you (& Rahul Gandhi) the only one that can't process & deliver arguments or explanations.

Use facts, not farts (metaphorically).

So 45 was minimum and 60 was maximum.
You are saying.
You don't have to reply for that I know 30 characters problem.
Just add my enquiry into another reply.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

the asking, plan for ATAGS was for 12 tons of weight and 60 km of range

You yourself wrote today at early hours.
OK so I assume it was wrong.
No problem SO ACTUALLY PRIMARY REQUIREMENTS WAS NEITHER WEIGHT NOR RANGE BUT IT WAS ATHOS GUN.
kya baat hai.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Oi bhai log
Now you people know WHAT, leave weapon aside.
I came to know that actually @Bhadra in early hours was quoting 60 km range, then today since morning he is quoting 45 km range, calling us pappu, don't know who is that man.

 

[Bhadra]

First explain what is the advantage of Athos over Dhanush. Don't talk about 45 vs 52 caliber. Is there any quality issue which hinders getting results? Merely because the shell is 45mm does not mean that it is useless and has to be replaced. As long as objectives can be obtained, it is good enough

You Dud ..shell is not 45 mm. It is caliber and it means the length of gun is 45 times of bore of the gun - 155mm.
155 X 45 = 6.975 meters long barrel. In case of 52 it be longer. Longer guns mean longer range
Commonality of caliber means calibered and coordinated maximum fire at maximum ranges.

 

[Bhadra]

Can't find Elbit's official on it right now, this says 13t.
http://survincity.com/2012/07/autonomous-towed-howitzer-athos-2052/

But i read 14t earlier after the thing was announced.

12 tons I suppose.

±60km was required to be max achievable from hill-top, against target at lower altitude.

OMG. Which theory is this ?. I can make out you don't know where "Gand" and where "Mund" of a gun lies.
Have you ever seen a gun even in pictures ? No wonder you are coming round and round on "Economy" which also you do not know anything of.
You must be workless Babu or someone's PA who is out on a tour.

On the contrary, everyone else have been presenting their reasonings, except you (& Rahul Gandhi) the only one that can't process & deliver arguments or explanations.
Use facts, not farts (metaphorically).

Thik hai.

 

[Bleh]

OMG. Which theory is this ?. I can make out you don't know where "Gand" and where "Mund" of a gun lies.
Have you ever seen a gun even in pictures ? No wonder you are coming round and round on "Economy" which also you do not know anything of.
You must be workless Babu or someone's PA who is out on a tour.

Basic projectile motion... Guns too follow laws of physics.
Assume 45° angle for max range at level target.

How did you get into the army with this low IQ!!!! (I've seen sting operations on TV of people trying to bribe themselves in...)

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

As i said in last post, 10 years from today, they could be auto-aiming based on data sent from AWACS or spy-sat (like CIWS or radar-guided AAA does today) & firing guided munition which may get cheaper in future.

We are already aiming using signals. But auto-aiming is difficult as man is always needed to check for nearby mountains (which can hiner fire at low angle), to load ammunition etc. Otherwise, aiming has now become very accurate

You Dud ..shell is not 45 mm. It is caliber and it means the length of gun is 45 times of bore of the gun - 155mm.
155 X 45 = 6.975 meters long barrel. In case of 52 it be longer. Longer guns mean longer range
Commonality of caliber means calibered and coordinated maximum fire at maximum ranges.

Yet, it really does not matter for ranges within 35km of fire. Most artillery is used for 30km or less. Higher ranges is hit by MBRL (as you pointed out).

So, except some minimal discomfort of having to aim slightly differently due to change in barrel length, there is no other problems with Dhanush. In fcat, lower weight of dhanush means higher mobility too. Also, M777 howitzer being 155x39 is even smaller and yet army is willing to take it in. I see no reason to ask for standard 52x guns while rejecting Dhanush

 

[Bhadra]

Basic projectile motion... Guns too follow laws of physics.
Assume 45° angle for max range at level target.
View attachment 34559 View attachment 34560
How did you get into the army with this low IQ!!!! (I've seen sting operations on TV of people trying to bribe themselves in...)

Rahane de Baap... fucker is showing suspension bridge sketch to justify a Chutiyapa.

 

[Bleh]

Rahane de Baap... fucker is showing suspension bridge sketch to justify a Chutiyapa.

That just shows you don't understand what a suspension bridge is either... Full image:

Source: http://www.phy.hk/wiki/englishhtm/ThrowABall.htm

If you still have enough braincells left then just do the math, or haven't you calculated anything other than counting money & liquor discount for years?

What's worse than clowns like this deciding army acquisitions, is that they try to justify their own corrupt friend's Chutiyapa... & call other people chutiyas while they're at it!

 

[Bhadra]

48km was the max range achieved on plain land, if you fire from higher altitude on target on lower ground, then the max range is 60km.

You are very koot?
Guns gain/ other weapons additional range in high altitude areas due to rarified wind as the projectile is subject to less wind resistance. Not by firing from top to bottom. Top to bottom theory works but more for projectile launched by an aircraft.

A few Swati radars are turning tables at LOC, just imagine what future tech would be able to do!!!

What is detection range of swati ? Why would anyone fire at you from 60 km away unless it is a missile like Brahmos or Nirbhaya.

Ability to hit their arty from miles outside their range would be an advantage if they can locate, calculate, target & hit ours within moments after entering their's range.

Why should anyone do that ?
What is the accuracy of the gun ? around 1% of the range.
What could be the dispersion of a gun if fired from 60,000 meters- 600 meters.
So you can have a drink when enemy guns are firing from 60 km away... OK.

 

[garg_bharat]

Bhadra 1% is 600m for 60km range.
Yep, unless one uses GPS guided shells, such range may not be useful.

 

[Bhadra]

AtAGS is not made by OFB and it is not even complete. It is said that Baba Kalyani imported the barrel from Denel. Without having technology, OFB can't make ATAGS. But OFB can make any number of Dhanush as ordered.

Now you are talking of R&D. I have already said that if R&D is complete, then manufacturing is easy. R&D itself is very hard. So, I only talk of manufacturing those items for which R&D is completed and 100% indigenisation is achieved.

Who told you ATAGS technology is imported ?
Barrel has been developed by OFB (GCF, Kanpur and one more factory and Bharat Forge)
There are more than 10 Indian sub contractors who have participated with DRDO.

 

[Bhadra]

Bhadra 1% is 600m for 60km range.
Yep, unless one uses GPS guided shells, such range may not be useful.

yah, thanks buddy - 600 meters means I can go for a swim..

 

[Bleh]

Guns gain/ other weapons additional range in high altitude areas due to rarified wind as the projectile is subject to less wind resistance. Not by firing from top to bottom. Top to bottom theory works but more for projectile launched by an aircraft.

Laws of physics apply similarly to a thrown ball, shot arrow & fired shell... changing air-resistance should be just another factor that'll affect the equation for the shell.

What is detection range of swati ? Why would anyone fire at you from 60 km away unless it is a missile like Brahmos or Nirbhaya.

Why should anyone do that ?
What is the accuracy of the gun ? around 1% of the range.
What could be the dispersion of a gun if fired from 60,000 meters- 60 meters.
So you can have a drink when enemy guns are firing from 60 km away... OK.

That's because present & past tech can't/couldn't do it.
Spice can do a lot of shit LGBs can't, & LGBs can do shit dumb bombs can't (as India found out not a minute too early during Kargil).

Satellite & AWACS based battlefield scanning radars can scan of hundreds of kilometres, with increasing efficiency as the tech matures.
If (near)future artillery can lob accurate guided munition for upto 50km away, then scores of shells could have been used to flatten Jaba Top at Balakot without to taking any risk... would also be tens of times cheaper than using Brahmos or Nirbhay or even area saturating, overkilling MLRS.

That's why!!! Because the past invariably gives way to the future... Indians of all people should know better.