DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Azaad]

Fr. Chinks have there NG light tank almost ready. It also has hardkill aps which zorawar tk lacks. They're ahead of us.
Hope our tk has crew less turret.

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What's the weight of this tank ? Compare it to the weight requirements as per the IA SQRs for Zorawar.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

When I was a little boy , I loved to watch weapons videos , especially nuclear bombs explosion.
And to satisfy my eagerness to watch and learn more about weapons , the discovery science channel had many such programs.
I don't remember the name of the show , but in the episode about Excalibur the american general who was interviewed after a successful test of the same told the main utility of Excalibur shell as follows
" It's main purpose is to reduce collateral damage , especially in urban areas of eye raq and afghaenistaen ".
I was smol , so I naively believed the show , lol .
Tell me a what is a" precise" 155 mm shell like ?
Does it burst with reduced intensity, hell no !.
A 155 mm Excalibur shell will damage a School Baegdaed in eyeraq in similar manner , a normal 155 mm shell will !
Now when the vaunted Excalibur is being used against Russians , it turns out ,it's not so effective! And even for the orignal Excalibur sword an British peasant said these timeless words " strange women lying in ponds dispensing out swords , is hardly a basis for a system of government".
@Longewala
@Tactical Doge

Was on Discovery

 

[Mr.Evil007]

Fr. Chinks have there NG light tank almost ready. It also has hardkill aps which zorawar tk lacks. They're ahead of us.
Hope our tk has crew less turret.

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I think Zorawar has hard kill APS as it was one of the main requirements soft and hard both
Here is the brief-
The brief also suggests an Active Protection System (APS), designed to engage with incoming projectiles intended to destroy tanks. "A soft kill capability is essential, but a hard kill feature will be desirable...Along with APS, the tank should have electronic countermeasures, counter-countermeasures, laser warnings, and smoke dispensers," the requirements state. The Army also wants a main gun with 105 mm or higher calibre, similar to the Chinese Type 15, and it should be capable of firing an Anti-Tank Guided Missile (ATGM), preferably third generation or higher.
Developed under a public-private partnership with the DRDO and L&T, the Army's ambitious light tank project, titled 'Zorawar', was envisioned in 2021. Under it,…

source:%20NDTV.com
https://search.app/1Fru3hfVsFHc5CMRA

 

[Azaad]

this = garuda v2
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We need to develop the idea of having 2-3 drone specialists per platoon the way we have an LMG operator extending this idea across the IA to include artillery & armour too .

While this 37 cal 105 mm MGS will be a formidable force multiplier in the mountains & plains a couple of FPV drones armed with nothing more than a grenade hovering overhead aiming at the cabin can disable mobility rendering this piece then as a sitting duck .

Apart from the many lessons we may derive from Ukraine this ranks as one of the top 2 or 3 if not number 1.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Fr. Chinks have there NG light tank almost ready. It also has hardkill aps which zorawar tk lacks. They're ahead of us.
Hope our tk has crew less turret.

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That crew-less turret is a mockup. They'll end up going with a crewed turret with APS.

 

[Azaad]

I think what was meant by that commentator was a guided munition can be expected to cause less collateral damage than an unguided shell given the former would be precise , the caveat being the former was supposed to operate in a jam proof environment which was possible in Iraq or Afghanistan .

The assumption still holds true for all irregular / poorly equipped armies not for peers or near peers.

You're not going to see such a success rate as the allies enjoyed in Iraq as you'd see against the Russians in Ukraine or the Chinese in Taiwan when hostilities break out there .

When I was a little boy , I loved to watch weapons videos , especially nuclear bombs explosion.
And to satisfy my eagerness to watch and learn more about weapons , the discovery science channel had many such programs.
I don't remember the name of the show , but in the episode about Excalibur the american general who was interviewed after a successful test of the same told the main utility of Excalibur shell as follows
" It's main purpose is to reduce collateral damage , especially in urban areas of eye raq and afghaenistaen ".
I was smol , so I naively believed the show , lol .
Tell me a what is a" precise" 155 mm shell like ?
Does it burst with reduced intensity, hell no !.
A 155 mm Excalibur shell will damage a School Baegdaed in eyeraq in similar manner , a normal 155 mm shell will !
Now when the vaunted Excalibur is being used against Russians , it turns out ,it's not so effective! And even for the orignal Excalibur sword an British peasant said these timeless words " strange women lying in ponds dispensing out swords , is hardly a basis for a system of government".
@Longewala
@Tactical Doge

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

We need to develop the idea of having 2-3 drone specialists per platoon the way we have an LMG operator extending this idea across the IA to include artillery & armour too .

While this 37 cal 105 mm MGS will be a formidable force multiplier in the mountains & plains a couple of FPV drones armed with nothing more than a grenade hovering overhead aiming at the cabin can disable mobility rendering this piece then as a sitting duck .

Apart from the many lessons we may derive from Ukraine this ranks as one of the top 2 or 3 if not number 1.

I Would personally want Marg instead of garuda it would have much much better range and on top of that if we somehow get it air droppable (we have already tested 20 tonne air dropping system too) it would be way better than the garuda too
true loitering munitions are to be one of the biggest factor in coming/ongoing wars the male hale drones are just a nuisance at best

 

[mokoman]

tactics evolve as per threat perception, it's par for the course.

what's happening now is that folks who were born during murica's unipolar moment are having a reality check. defence enthusiasts who have seen berlin wall fall on TV, will be more aware of murican warfare in contested spaces, so not a surprise as such.

@Chinmoy
so what happens now to murican war tech that's dependent on GPS? what do they have in pipeline to overcome this?

u could strike the jamming vehicles first wihch is what Ukraine is trying .

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/a-kamikaze-drone-hit-a-vehicle-of-the-borisoglebsk-2-electronic-warfare-system/

curious how we will fare against chinese electronic warfare at LAC - cant be good .

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

u could strike the jamming vehicles first wihch is what Ukraine is trying .

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/a-kamikaze-drone-hit-a-vehicle-of-the-borisoglebsk-2-electronic-warfare-system/

curious how we will fare against chinese electronic warfare at LAC - cant be good .

also i would like to know how do mountains affect jamming capabilities or if it remains more or less unaffected cause ukraine is mostly flatland too so everything works at full potential there (at least in theory)

 

[Love Charger]

u could strike the jamming vehicles first wihch is what Ukraine is trying .

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/a-kamikaze-drone-hit-a-vehicle-of-the-borisoglebsk-2-electronic-warfare-system/

curious how we will fare against chinese electronic warfare at LAC - cant be good .

Go pasadaran method , deliver handwritten instructions and use smoke signals

 

[Azaad]

I Would personally want Marg instead of garuda it would have much much better range and on top of that if we somehow get it air droppable (we have already tested 20 tonne air dropping system too) it would be way better than the garuda too
true loitering munitions are to be one of the biggest factor in coming/ongoing wars the male hale drones are just a nuisance at best

Range issues apart , a 5.5 ton truck is certainly much more easier to air drop than a 20 ton truck , not to mention the aspect of manoeuvrability especially up in the mountains , where it's easier for a nimble 5.5 ton ner to shoot & scoot .

Having said that we need both in huge numbers with drone / anti drone operators on boarded.

 

[Satish Sharma]

I Would personally want Marg instead of garuda it would have much much better range and on top of that if we somehow get it air droppable (we have already tested 20 tonne air dropping system too) it would be way better than the garuda too
true loitering munitions are to be one of the biggest factor in coming/ongoing wars the male hale drones are just a nuisance at best

How tf man. Garuda is literally 5 ton system. Do u know how slim roads are in some of the mountainous region ?
There is no comparison the tactical advantage v2 gives in that jography its very significant. I think u should personally visits tourist destination of ladakh. Or atleast watch vlogs of Mahindra Thar in ladakh. U will realise why 20 mammoth won't be useful there. yes fire is more but then it has its own limitations
I don't know it is possible or not but if it can be transported by Chinook it will be very great.
It's 5.5 ton Chinook can lift humvee which is 3.7tons.
Kalyani should make it lighter if possible.. the advantage of v2 with chinook shall be explored..

 

[mokoman]

also i would like to know how do mountains affect jamming capabilities or if it remains more or less unaffected cause ukraine is mostly flatland too so everything works at full potential there (at least in theory)

yea mountains will limit range but it will still jam excalibur rounds / loiter drones flying towards a target .

 

[Satish Sharma]

u could strike the jamming vehicles first wihch is what Ukraine is trying .

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/a-kamikaze-drone-hit-a-vehicle-of-the-borisoglebsk-2-electronic-warfare-system/

curious how we will fare against chinese electronic warfare at LAC - cant be good .

Yes home on jamming.
That's why long range jammers are needed. This hemraj like EWs provide long range jamming. Ukraine has managed to struck mobile jammers which closer to battlefields.
If armour is moving in the coverage of such above named long range EWs then this can be tackled.

also i would like to know how do mountains affect jamming capabilities or if it remains more or less unaffected cause ukraine is mostly flatland too so everything works at full potential there (at least in theory)

The hemshakti derived of hemraj is specifically designed for mountains only. I have heard it is working very well in Kashmir.

 

[Satish Sharma]

u could strike the jamming vehicles first wihch is what Ukraine is trying .

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/a-kamikaze-drone-hit-a-vehicle-of-the-borisoglebsk-2-electronic-warfare-system/

curious how we will fare against chinese electronic warfare at LAC - cant be good .

system was inactive as if it would have been active the spotter drone wouldn't have spotted it. As it found it then location must have been sent to kamikaze operator & then it got hit.

It seems Russians lack numbers of ground EW. Or the battlefield field is just too lengthy.
They had developed some EWs which were not ordered for a long time forgot the name. Some units were procured in 2015. They began the production of it again during the war. Shows how under prepared they are.. they cannot provide gps jamming coverage to s400 batteries let alone they will save ew units.

This zitel was also destroyed by himars. Surprisingly it was supposed to jam gps.
However even if it did himars solely doesn't rely on gps. If precise location is known it can strike as it has ins. Rest cluster munition will do the job. And also it has severe limitations it functions only upto 2Ghz. The fpv's & video streaming drones use 2.400–2.483 GHz and 5.725–5.825 GHz. So no wonder.
Russia is really underprepared for modern warfare. I hope we learn from them.

 

[indiatester]

And how you are going to use it in a border skirmish?

Attacking of trenches and other fortifications.
Entering of fortified or booby-trapped areas (urban and otherwise)
Russia is already trying out the land based drones to clear Ukrainian strongholds.

 

[Satish Sharma]

What's the weight of this tank ? Compare it to the weight requirements as per the IA SQRs for Zorawar.

It is a 33 ton tank with armour 36t.
I know zorawar is 25ton..
However it still has quite good thrust to weight ratio. As chinks put 1000hp tank which gives 30hp per ton 27with armour.
Our requires minimum 25hp per ton. it has 750hp engine. Which gives 30hp per ton.
Even with if 3 tons armour is put it will be 26.8 hp per ton.
..............
@Chinmoy why ain't we going for our indigeneous engine there is one 800hp engine. It would be better if we go for indigeneous engine for later orders as total requirements is of 1k tanks..
This engine will be matured and is supposed to go in ficv.

 

[Azaad]

It is a 33 ton tank with armour 36t.
I know zorawar is 25ton..
However it still has quite good thrust to weight ratio. As chinks put 1000hp tank which gives 30hp per ton 27with armour.
Our requires minimum 25hp per ton. it has 750hp engine. Which gives 30hp per ton.
Even with if 3 tons armour is put it will be 26.8 hp per ton.
..............
@Chinmoy why ain't we going for our indigeneous engine there is one 800hp engine. It would be better if we go for indigeneous engine for later orders as total requirements is of 1k tanks..
This engine will be matured and is supposed to go in ficv.

Then what're we comparing ? The Chinese aren't coming up with a light tank . It's in the intermediate weight category. Neither light nor medium. Looks like they pulled a fast one on us. While we're focusing on their light tank while designing ours , they went ahead & armour plated theirs.

So much for original thinking on our side. Hope our next iteration in the "light tank " segment takes these developments on the Chinese side into account. Even if they don't hope they reinforce our anti tank capabilities including drone warfare especially targeting these tanks .

 

[Satish Sharma]

Then what're we comparing ? The Chinese aren't coming up with a light tank . It's in the intermediate weight category. Neither light nor medium. Looks like they pulled a fast one on us. While we're focusing on their light tank while designing ours , they went ahead & armour plated theirs.

So much for original thinking on our side. Hope our next iteration in the "light tank " segment takes these developments on the Chinese side into account. Even if they don't hope they reinforce our anti tank capabilities including drone warfare especially targeting these tanks .

I think this is there's light tank. Because they aren't operating any lighter than this they want protection as well as mobility. More powerfull engine is used to compensate here. Chinese wont compromise on Mobility. It seems they have got the perfect balance between mobility & protection. If that would have been the case the newer tank would have weighed more.
Our LT is bound to phase this tank.
Anyways a big mistake from my side the specs I told are of existing light tank type 15.
The newer tank I said to weight 40tons. Despite having crew less turret it weights more. As I said it seems to me they have took protection seriously and also managed to maintain balance. they will use even more powerfull engine.

What concerns me is our LT will have just max protection against 14.5mm.
That's it. After all just 25ton tank. They're newer 40ton seems very well protected..
Even if with external armour I don't expect any protection..
Our hard kill asp isnt ready either Nor the soft kill is. Correct me if I'm wrong..
Even 20mm will take out our LT.
I believe we should have followed the same chinki approach.
Atleast a 35ton with enough protection to defend from all calibres below 105mm.
(20,23,30mm) Etc. and should have compensated with more powerful engine.
Good night mate

 

[Azaad]

I think this is there's light tank. Because they aren't operating any lighter than this they want protection as well as mobility. More powerfull engine is used to compensate here. Chinese wont compromise on Mobility. It seems they have got the perfect balance between mobility & protection. If that would have been the case the newer tank would have weighed more.
Our LT is bound to phase this tank.
Anyways a big mistake from my side the specs I told are of existing light tank type 15.
The newer tank I said to weight 40tons. Despite having crew less turret it weights more. As I said it seems to me they have took protection seriously and also managed to maintain balance. they will use even more powerfull engine.

What concerns me is our LT will have just max protection against 14.5mm.
That's it. After all just 25ton tank. They're newer 40ton seems very well protected..
Even if with external armour I don't expect any protection..
Our hard kill asp isnt ready either Nor the soft kill is. Correct me if I'm wrong..
Even 20mm will take out our LT.
I believe we should have followed the same chinki approach.
Atleast a 35ton with enough protection to defend from all calibres below 105mm.
(20,23,30mm) Etc. and should have compensated with more powerful engine.
Good night mate

I haven't followed this development in granular detail except to say that the IA going in for a Light Tank would be in imitation of the PLA light tank. Evidently it isn't. On what basis did the IA then frame its SQRs only they can answer !

Perhaps it was the Type 62 , the predecessor of the Type 15 which was replaced by the latter. Perhaps all that the IA did was dust off old plans & files carrying those SQRs which were gathering dust in some moth eaten cupboard of theirs .

Perhaps in the light of what's happening in Ukraine it's just the first iteration . The later iterations would mirror the PLA Type 15 . Can't really comment intelligently on the armed forces procurement plans especially that of the IA which defies logic & seems whimsical.