DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

NoobWannaLearn

New Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2022
Messages
8,978
Likes
29,244
Country flag
Ok so got something IDK how credible but CATS program may happen in 2 phases

1st one having
- Infinity
- Warrior
- Alfa s
- Hunter
- Ruav

In 2nd phase they might Add HALE systems

Both TP and TF that's what they have in mind bottom line No Hale in CATS as of Yet ofc take it with grain of salt as always
 

binayak95

New Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
2,526
Likes
8,790
Country flag
What's the combat range of the Jaguars ? Let me add to it - what's the combat range of the LCA - Mk-1a ? Which one of these has the endurance in the Northern sector since that's what we're discussing here, to be a Wild Weasel ?

None of the FAs in our inventory except the MKIs & the Rafales have it in them to be Wild Weasel that too after undergoing the Super Sukhoi program in case of the latter especially in the northern sector given the distances involved

The Jaguars are well past their fly by date even if they received their TF upgrade. Both the Jaguars & the LCA are strictly meant for our western borders.
So range and payload make an aircraft a Wild Weasel is it?

Oh boy
 

Azaad

New Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2022
Messages
8,400
Likes
31,090
Country flag
So range and payload make an aircraft a Wild Weasel is it?

Oh boy
Role & performance are dictated by range & payload . Your Wild Weasel philosophy for Tejas would work well on the western front. Not so sure about the Jaguars in an IADS saturated environment.

On our northern front , care to explain how exactly are the Tejas & Jaguars expected to act as Wild Weasels given Chinese ISR & ADS capabilities ?
 

binayak95

New Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
2,526
Likes
8,790
Country flag
Role & performance are dictated by range & payload . Your Wild Weasel philosophy for Tejas would work well on the western front. Not so sure about the Jaguars in an IADS saturated environment.

On our northern front , care to explain how exactly are the Tejas & Jaguars expected to act as Wild Weasels given Chinese ISR & ADS capabilities ?
Jaguars D3 with their AESA radars, and dedicated offensive EW suite, beats all but the Rafale for detecting, suppressing and tracking enemy SAM radars.
 

zathura98

New Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2022
Messages
593
Likes
2,653
Country flag
Even I haven't will watch when I will get some time
Jo bhi ho bahut dukh ke sath dekhna padega
Such a vibrant production line
0 orders from India
1712543654628.png

apparently they can felicitate him for his contribution but not order good things from them.
gen manoj pande and baba kalyani at AIT pune 2023. Leftmost is the director of clg ,Ret. Brig Abhay A Bhat.
 

Satish Sharma

New Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2023
Messages
2,001
Likes
5,490
Country flag
What was the threat to Armenia that they had to purchase AAD.. they might have brought radars with it too.. those swordfish type radars..
 

binayak95

New Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
2,526
Likes
8,790
Country flag
Jaguars D3 with their AESA radars, and dedicated offensive EW suite, beats all but the Rafale for detecting, suppressing and tracking enemy SAM radars.
Hass rahe ho saalo. Kuch samajh hai toh nahi.
The Jaguar has a unified system architecture that takes threat cues from radar, AWACS, GCI, tracks live targets picked up by the ELM 2052, has an onboard adaptive radar jammer in the D29 (at the cost of one 30mm ADEN), carries SAAW and Hammer stand off munitions, and can cue decoys for particular SAMs.

Its low NoE flight profile, combined with Highway in the sky heads up routing makes it anyway impossible for ground based radars to pick up in the first place, and that has been there since D2 days. The 2052's ability to generate real time SAR maps of the terrain allow the bird to now launch munitions by following terrain without the need to have visual on target, nor the necessity for precise drop coordinates.

IAF Jag D3s have repeatedly and ad nauseum slipped past both the Rafale and the Sukhoi in exercises, have evaded not just the old SA 2s, Akash and Gecko batteries, but now the S400 too.

In international exercises, jags have penetrated Red Flag Mountain Home defenses (backed up by F15Cs and F16s) and USN F18s (with the E2C airborne).

There's a reason why the Jag is revered in the IAF strike community. And why we went to such great pains to acquire ex French and RAF Jags and keep our inventory updated.

Adding a quote from Group Captain Harsh Vardhan Thakur, Chief Test Pilot of HAL now:

"Its legacy electronic warfare (EW) suite has always been ahead of its time. Indeed, it’s the choice of opponent in all EW-range training capsules. I’ve led many a mission when the planners requested Jags to step up, to make a worthy battle of the whole mission. We’ve had our share of fun, repeatedly slipping through defences and taking out surface targets with maximum impunity. There was a training mission led by me, when I refused the request for our formation to step up (gain altitude) just so ground radars could spot us and track us. So, all the sensors dipped their acquisition units to the surface when we were ingressing. Silly as it may sound, four of us accelerated to 560 knots at low levels and then zoomed up to 30,000 feet as we struck the runway, without one missile tracking us. The auto-bombing on Jag precludes the requirement of pilots to spot their DMPI. Pilots simply press the trigger and smoke a cigar, while the system does all the hard work of honing the sights on to the target and getting the bombs to ride to them accurately. Anyway, the two Jags at low levels penetrated the fringes of the missile envelope several times, then turned away. The CO at the missile unit went, ‘Gotcha!’. The debrief was a laugh riot. The poor CO is my course mate and curses me till date for his failed demo (to students) of the Jag formation take-down. ‘Pick on someone your own size’ I say."

He is speaking of the legacy Jaguar IS (the DARIN II)
 

Azaad

New Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2022
Messages
8,400
Likes
31,090
Country flag
Hass rahe ho saalo. Kuch samajh hai toh nahi.
The Jaguar has a unified system architecture that takes threat cues from radar, AWACS, GCI, tracks live targets picked up by the ELM 2052, has an onboard adaptive radar jammer in the D29 (at the cost of one 30mm ADEN), carries SAAW and Hammer stand off munitions, and can cue decoys for particular SAMs.

Its low NoE flight profile, combined with Highway in the sky heads up routing makes it anyway impossible for ground based radars to pick up in the first place, and that has been there since D2 days. The 2052's ability to generate real time SAR maps of the terrain allow the bird to now launch munitions by following terrain without the need to have visual on target, nor the necessity for precise drop coordinates.

IAF Jag D3s have repeatedly and ad nauseum slipped past both the Rafale and the Sukhoi in exercises, have evaded not just the old SA 2s, Akash and Gecko batteries, but now the S400 too.

In international exercises, jags have penetrated Red Flag Mountain Home defenses (backed up by F15Cs and F16s) and USN F18s (with the E2C airborne).

There's a reason why the Jag is revered in the IAF strike community. And why we went to such great pains to acquire ex French and RAF Jags and keep our inventory updated.

Adding a quote from Group Captain Harsh Vardhan Thakur, Chief Test Pilot of HAL now:

"Its legacy electronic warfare (EW) suite has always been ahead of its time. Indeed, it’s the choice of opponent in all EW-range training capsules. I’ve led many a mission when the planners requested Jags to step up, to make a worthy battle of the whole mission. We’ve had our share of fun, repeatedly slipping through defences and taking out surface targets with maximum impunity. There was a training mission led by me, when I refused the request for our formation to step up (gain altitude) just so ground radars could spot us and track us. So, all the sensors dipped their acquisition units to the surface when we were ingressing. Silly as it may sound, four of us accelerated to 560 knots at low levels and then zoomed up to 30,000 feet as we struck the runway, without one missile tracking us. The auto-bombing on Jag precludes the requirement of pilots to spot their DMPI. Pilots simply press the trigger and smoke a cigar, while the system does all the hard work of honing the sights on to the target and getting the bombs to ride to them accurately. Anyway, the two Jags at low levels penetrated the fringes of the missile envelope several times, then turned away. The CO at the missile unit went, ‘Gotcha!’. The debrief was a laugh riot. The poor CO is my course mate and curses me till date for his failed demo (to students) of the Jag formation take-down. ‘Pick on someone your own size’ I say."

He is speaking of the legacy Jaguar IS (the DARIN II)
Very impressive. Now what's its endurance on FULL internal & external fuel ? And with those figures of endurance , how many targets in Tibet or Xinjiang will it be able to take out ? Do remember we're talking of heights here where the flight pattern will be in the ascendant , not NoE flying - the forte of the Jaguars , which isn't possible in the approach to either Tibet or Xinjiang .

I haven't even brought up the topic of its underpowered TFs or the fact that they're ageing & in the absence of replacements / upgradation given RR has stopped mfg them ages back suffer from significant amount of de rating.

Secondly I've often see our serving & ex services personnel describe our performances in exercises against western countries in glowing terms everytime we score over them especially the US . Are we supposed to believe these exercises conducted within set parameters are the equivalent of a war like scenario ?

In case you haven't noticed we're talking China here whose ISR assets are not just ground & air based but also space based with the numbers now poised to be second in the world only next to the US & growing apart from a formidable ADS probably equal to what we already have &/or planning , if not better.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves & think "jugaad" which is what the Jaguar DARIN - III is & a damn good one at that , given it served as an experimental platform which in turn enabled all those modifications / upgradation on MiG-29 , on going ones on the Su-30 MKI & even in designing the various packages for the LCA - Mk-1 / Mk-1a , will get the better of the PLA & PLAAF .
 

Blood+

New Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2011
Messages
3,027
Likes
4,828
Country flag
Hass rahe ho saalo. Kuch samajh hai toh nahi.
The Jaguar has a unified system architecture that takes threat cues from radar, AWACS, GCI, tracks live targets picked up by the ELM 2052, has an onboard adaptive radar jammer in the D29 (at the cost of one 30mm ADEN), carries SAAW and Hammer stand off munitions, and can cue decoys for particular SAMs.

Its low NoE flight profile, combined with Highway in the sky heads up routing makes it anyway impossible for ground based radars to pick up in the first place, and that has been there since D2 days. The 2052's ability to generate real time SAR maps of the terrain allow the bird to now launch munitions by following terrain without the need to have visual on target, nor the necessity for precise drop coordinates.

IAF Jag D3s have repeatedly and ad nauseum slipped past both the Rafale and the Sukhoi in exercises, have evaded not just the old SA 2s, Akash and Gecko batteries, but now the S400 too.

In international exercises, jags have penetrated Red Flag Mountain Home defenses (backed up by F15Cs and F16s) and USN F18s (with the E2C airborne).

There's a reason why the Jag is revered in the IAF strike community. And why we went to such great pains to acquire ex French and RAF Jags and keep our inventory updated.

Adding a quote from Group Captain Harsh Vardhan Thakur, Chief Test Pilot of HAL now:

"Its legacy electronic warfare (EW) suite has always been ahead of its time. Indeed, it’s the choice of opponent in all EW-range training capsules. I’ve led many a mission when the planners requested Jags to step up, to make a worthy battle of the whole mission. We’ve had our share of fun, repeatedly slipping through defences and taking out surface targets with maximum impunity. There was a training mission led by me, when I refused the request for our formation to step up (gain altitude) just so ground radars could spot us and track us. So, all the sensors dipped their acquisition units to the surface when we were ingressing. Silly as it may sound, four of us accelerated to 560 knots at low levels and then zoomed up to 30,000 feet as we struck the runway, without one missile tracking us. The auto-bombing on Jag precludes the requirement of pilots to spot their DMPI. Pilots simply press the trigger and smoke a cigar, while the system does all the hard work of honing the sights on to the target and getting the bombs to ride to them accurately. Anyway, the two Jags at low levels penetrated the fringes of the missile envelope several times, then turned away. The CO at the missile unit went, ‘Gotcha!’. The debrief was a laugh riot. The poor CO is my course mate and curses me till date for his failed demo (to students) of the Jag formation take-down. ‘Pick on someone your own size’ I say."

He is speaking of the legacy Jaguar IS (the DARIN II)
Yes but how are we supposed to bring all of that to bear against the PLA given the limited range and lack of engine performance of the Jags??
 
Top